A unique SSK AGM job.

[Motzaburger 1,590]

7 hours ago, Peace said:

The role of an AGM is to groom people into management material, not necessarily turn them into a GM with the next opening. It's similar to how the VHLM GM to VHL GM progress happens... as in it's not so black and white. We saw just recently two non-current GMs get hired for VHL expansion teams with Ace (previous GM'ing experience) and Eno (No VHLM/VHL GM experience) despite neither having a management job for a team. 

This job won't grant that person immediate GM status, it will be entirely interim based until Bana/Ace either agree to keep that person as a replacement or decide to hire a new one, but in order to make the process as smooth as possible when Devise steps away from Toronto my AGM I hire will simply become Saskatoon's interim GM like these things have happened in the past. 

An AGM position with a team puts you in line to replace the current GM should they be fired/hired onto a different role. When the GM steps away, the AGM takes over as an interim GM. This is how it works with every GM who's succeeded from within unless they don't meet the Commish's standards. When Dtayl went inactive I was announced as SSK Interim after managing Saskatoon for 90% of the season already. 

It's not an open GM application, but I understand where you're coming from. 

If I had been fired it would have been an open GM frenzy because I had no AGM, but if I had been fired with an AGM that AGM would have been announced as Interim until a GM was found. Whether or not that GM was the interim GM was up to them. 

I hope I've done enough to explain the situation. 

The difference is whoever becomes Saskatoon's AGM will most likely become Saskatoon's interim GM starting S71 rather than waiting for an unknown date for the GM you're under to be hired/fired. It isn't written in stone, but it is certainly a heavy possibility, which makes it a necessity for a smoother transition. 

And I knew you would it explain it this way to the T. This is also valid, but it supports the fact that this should not be a publicly stated ordeal especially since “it’s not written in stone.” Why even say it.

 

For members like me, it’s extremely discouraging. I can’t even imagine how it feels when you don't have a job and you really want one. 

 

We promote jobs jobs to new members and say, even in this posting, “no experience required” yet it’s almost a two in one posting. Any current AGM would make a better suitor then someone with no experience. Why not keep this posting internal to AGMs then? Or, easy as is, don’t mention the GM job since it’s not a guarantee. It’s literally slapping every VHLM AGM in the face, at the same time, getting the hopes up for people who want any type of GM job. It’s not fair. No matter what way you look. 

 

If it’s not an an open GM application, don’t mention GM then. This doesn’t help the morale for active AGMs and enhances (and will crush) the ones who want a GM job.

 

Bottom line, any current AGM is a better transition than a new here. Regardless of their current team - it doesn’t differ that much. Lastly, don’t hint at a successor position when it’s not guaranteed. No point of doing this unless you want to anger GMs and make new members feel unworthy. 

[Motzaburger 1,590]

Not to mention, before I was AGM if MEX, I applied for this job 3 times and you never hired anyone. If that’s not a slap in the face to members wanting to grow, then I don’t know what is.

[FrostBeard 2,049]

6 hours ago, Elmebeck said:

I predicted (heh, we'll see) the outcome of the S68 draft. I have some rapport going on with some GMs. I check the ratings, the earnings, the new people.

But mostly, I really like this site and the people I have met here. I am a programmer by trade, statistician as a hobbyist, Swedish language and philosophy by education (that was a mistake to take at university level  luckily, programming).

In the short term I can offer you that I am interested in keeping track on member activity, I love the wheelings and dealings here, and talking to new recruits and bring them in to the league.

I don't really care about the TPE (I guess it's capped TPE?), but I think I could do great work for Saskatoon to bring new members in and care for them during the season.

But yeah, if you would entertain me applying for the role I would be happy to take it at Saskatoon Blind, sorry, Wild.

One of the most amazing new players in VHL right now!! He is active, reachable and loyal - what else could you want, @Peace - you will not regret this signing!

[Peace 1,530]

21 minutes ago, Motzaburger said:

And I knew you would it explain it this way to the T. This is also valid, but it supports the fact that this should not be a publicly stated ordeal especially since “it’s not written in stone.” Why even say it.

 

For members like me, it’s extremely discouraging. I can’t even imagine how it feels when you don't have a job and you really want one. 

 

We promote jobs jobs to new members and say, even in this posting, “no experience required” yet it’s almost a two in one posting. Any current AGM would make a better suitor then someone with no experience. Why not keep this posting internal to AGMs then? Or, easy as is, don’t mention the GM job since it’s not a guarantee. It’s literally slapping every VHLM AGM in the face, at the same time, getting the hopes up for people who want any type of GM job. It’s not fair. No matter what way you look. 

 

If it’s not an an open GM application, don’t mention GM then. This doesn’t help the morale for active AGMs and enhances (and will crush) the ones who want a GM job.

 

Bottom line, any current AGM is a better transition than a new here. Regardless of their current team - it doesn’t differ that much. Lastly, don’t hint at a successor position when it’s not guaranteed. No point of doing this unless you want to anger GMs and make new members feel unworthy. 

I've been named as the successor to the Toronto Legion starting season seventy one by Devise, he's made it public, which means this is a hiring that helps the commish team make the transition smoother and easier. Never has an AGM role guaranteed a GM position and if we as GMs have said that, then that's on us, so I'm being as honest as I can in this thread. The fact you predicted my reply to a T means you understand what is going on. 

You don't have to agree with it, but that's how internal succession happens. 

I am hiring an AGM to become Saskatoon's interim GM - which means it might only last a season - as it's likely I'll be moving up to the VHL. 

We know that the VHL goes internally as well. 

Esso replaced Spade recently as NYA's GM when he went inactive because he was a VHLM GM and on the team, even though Josh, myself and other VHLM GMs had been serving in the role much longer. The fact it was internal pretty much secures my position within Toronto's management, but I'm not saying it's 100% until it happens or Quik/Beketov confirm that I'll be the replacement. 

What this is - what this post and hiring serves as - is foresight into the future. It's protection against the stress, process, time and effort of hiring another primary GM through open applications. 

Is it slightly unfair? Perhaps. 

But you're the AGM of Mexico. If Nykonax quit tomorrow you'd become the interim AGM in a heartbeat to smooth the transition. 

AGMs have been internally promoted in the VHLM, just as VHLM GMs have been internally promoted to VHL teams just by being on the roster. 

The only thing that makes this post different from another AGM hiring for a different team is the matter of which I need to hire an AGM.
 

19 minutes ago, Motzaburger said:

Not to mention, before I was AGM if MEX, I applied for this job 3 times and you never hired anyone. If that’s not a slap in the face to members wanting to grow, then I don’t know what is.

That's actually false.

Each time I have posted a thread I've hired someone as a AGM with the exception being the one on July 6th, at that point Saskatoon was entering the slumps and I decided an AGM wasn't needed. Priorities changes, having an AGM on a scuttled ship didn't make sense. Wouldn't have been enjoyable for the rebuild. Every other thread I've hired an AGM. 

I hired Sonnet as an AGM. 

Then - in my thread in January - I hired @Plate to be my AGM. Plate went inactive with a busy life and stepped down.

In my second thread, posted in March, I hired @RunnerBert11. Like Plate, Bert was hit with real life issues, so he stepped down from the role.

My third thread, posted on June 3rd, I hired TheFlash (I'm not going to tag him to avoid drama). He was fired because he was - for lack of better words - lazy.

My forth thread, posted on July 6th, I decided not to hire anyone considering the long rebuild in Saskatoon's future. 

So I have been hiring people, just not announced in the job interview threads but rather separate Media Spots either from me or the AGM. 

[Gustav 6,407]

7 hours ago, Motzaburger said:

And I knew you would it explain it this way to the T. This is also valid, but it supports the fact that this should not be a publicly stated ordeal especially since “it’s not written in stone.” Why even say it.

 

For members like me, it’s extremely discouraging. I can’t even imagine how it feels when you don't have a job and you really want one. 

 

We promote jobs jobs to new members and say, even in this posting, “no experience required” yet it’s almost a two in one posting. Any current AGM would make a better suitor then someone with no experience. Why not keep this posting internal to AGMs then? Or, easy as is, don’t mention the GM job since it’s not a guarantee. It’s literally slapping every VHLM AGM in the face, at the same time, getting the hopes up for people who want any type of GM job. It’s not fair. No matter what way you look. 

 

If it’s not an an open GM application, don’t mention GM then. This doesn’t help the morale for active AGMs and enhances (and will crush) the ones who want a GM job.

 

Bottom line, any current AGM is a better transition than a new here. Regardless of their current team - it doesn’t differ that much. Lastly, don’t hint at a successor position when it’s not guaranteed. No point of doing this unless you want to anger GMs and make new members feel unworthy. 

I agree that it's a weird situation, and I understand your point, but I gave my own AGM permission to apply for this job if he wanted to (which, luckily for me, he doesn't). 

 

Besides, any eventual GM hire, regardless of who's hired as AGM, would have to go through the commissioners, so no matter who eventually gets the GM job, AGM or not, it will be someone who deserves it.

 

I don't think there's anything wrong with wanting your successor to have some sort of background with their team before taking the job, and, besides, given how volatile the league is--I can't speak for the commissioners, but I think you'll be hired as a GM before S71 anyway. Thran became a GM after three seasons of AGMing, and for someone actively involved in the site, this was considered an inordinately long time. If Peace hires someone and they stay interested and engaged in the team for two full seasons, that's more than enough qualification for management by the time he leaves, imo.

[DMaximus 1,046]

I want to comment on this job posting as a way to convey my desire to be a GM. Since I'm already an AGM of another team, I don't want to apply to be the AGM of Saskatoon. But I don't want my disinterest in this specific position to indicate to whomever is hiring future GMs that I don't want to be a GM. I want to be a GM.

 

As to the conversation occurring in this thread, I think Peace has been open and honest. Naturally if you're hired as the SSK AGM, you'll have a better chance at being named the actual GM when Peace leaves. Sure he's up-sold that point to attract the best candidates. I can't blame him for that, it's the strongest selling point of the position.

 

But Motzaburger raises a valid point that I think should be addressed by having a uniform hiring process. If we knew how influential Peace's recommendation to the hiring person(s?) for the GM position when he left, it would help make this process more transparent. Does a leaving GM have 10% influence on the final decision, 50%? 80%? Who else has input? More transparency on the GM hiring process would help alleviate this feeling of being "shafted" by thinking there is no chance for anyone other than whomever is hired as the AGM. And if there is no chance for anyone outside of the current AGM, that also would be good information to have.

[Thranduil 293]

On 9/4/2019 at 2:05 PM, GustavMattias said:

Don't try to sneak in ahead of @Thranduil

I'm afraid I will not be applying. AGM jobs only please, no loopholes to force me to GM again.

[Peace 1,530]

Thanks to all the applicants, you can head over to the open Philly GM thread to apply there to become a potential GM! 

 

Ive decided to hire @Elmebeck as Saskatoon’s AGM after a brief conversation. He wants to learn the ropes first, which is something I respect immensely. 

 

With the support of Ace and Bana, along with multiple community members, it was a quik decision. 

 

- Peace

[FrostBeard 2,049]

5 minutes ago, Peace said:

Thanks to all the applicants, you can head over to the open Philly GM thread to apply there to become a potential GM! 

 

Ive decided to hire @Elmebeck as Saskatoon’s AGM after a brief conversation. He wants to learn the ropes first, which is something I respect immensely. 

 

With the support of Ace and Bana, along with multiple community members, it was a quik decision. 

 

- Peace

Great choice Peace! You know I was very vocal about Elmebeck and well, I am just happy to see a guy I had pleasure to see grow in Houston getting this chance! GL @Elmebeck!