Claimed:Laichly Rift's Pajodcast Episode 78 - The Ultimate Harbinson

[Devise 4,475]

http://www59.zippyshare.com/v/21970607/file.html

 

The gang is back after a week hiatus. We talk the trade deadline action whether it was trades, retires and recreates, GM stepping down. All of that gets covered. The usual segments of sim coverage, PajodTask, shout outs, and finale are also featured. 

 

Insert clever words that encourages people to click on the link and hit play here. 

Edited April 10, 2014 by Devise22

[AwfulHomesick 148]

I'm starting to think every intro song is one big troll attempt.

[Guest]

Was that Devise's phone going off as the intro song?

 

Ode to Road Warrior, respect. Is Jericho on Mount St.Helens?

Edited April 11, 2014 by Kendrick

[Devise 4,475]

I'm starting to think every intro song is one big troll attempt.

 

*laughs* Once you get later into the podcast you'll get why I picked that intro song.  

[Guest]

Can I just mention in regards to Spud. How can you say his play is higher than his ability? That doesn't make sense. All we have is the sim to look at it. If you build a player right you can avoid depreciation being a full disadvantage. Also, way to give me a confidence boost by saying it's a bad trade for Riga. Not to sound too high on my player but to me this Podcast made it seem like Spud and I are basically depth players, when really I think we add another dimension to a squad that already has some very good assets in the sim and on the board. But I won't defend my player anymore, because we know the sim knowledge is higher elsewhere than with me.

[Devise 4,475]

Can I just mention in regards to Spud. How can you say his play is higher than his ability? That doesn't make sense. All we have is the sim to look at it. If you build a player right you can avoid depreciation being a full disadvantage. Also, way to give me a confidence boost by saying it's a bad trade for Riga. Not to sound too high on my player but to me this Podcast made it seem like Spud and I are basically depth players, when really I think we add another dimension to a squad that already has some very good assets in the sim and on the board. But I won't defend my player anymore, because we know the sim knowledge is higher elsewhere than with me.

 

That was all Chris, I just want to point this out publicly on the forum. I did in fact argue with Chris that if in fact Spud continues to play at the level he is playing at in the sim then his value would be what it was in the sim. 

 

The only reason I question the trade for Riga personally is similar to the Seattle situation. However they get two playoffs out of you. But as a young team, if they don't win this year or next year then while the trade isn't a bust, it simply makes it less of a good trade. 

 

I will however argue that this podcast didn't in fact make it seem like you and Spud were depth players. Keep in mind to say this "podcast" implies that the overall tone of the segments in which either player was featured was from all parties an indication that you were depth players. That isn't in fact the case. There are several personalities on the podcast, and Chris stated his thoughts while the rest of us stated are own. 

[Guest]

That was all Chris, I just want to point this out publicly on the forum. I did in fact argue with Chris that if in fact Spud continues to play at the level he is playing at in the sim then his value would be what it was in the sim. 

 

The only reason I question the trade for Riga personally is similar to the Seattle situation. However they get two playoffs out of you. But as a young team, if they don't win this year or next year then while the trade isn't a bust, it simply makes it less of a good trade. 

 

I will however argue that this podcast didn't in fact make it seem like you and Spud were depth players. Keep in mind to say this "podcast" implies that the overall tone of the segments in which either player was featured was from all parties an indication that you were depth players. That isn't in fact the case. There are several personalities on the podcast, and Chris stated his thoughts while the rest of us stated are own. 

Oh I understand, as in their are multiple personalities and I respect each's opinion equally. It just made it seem that throwing a rivalry at the back of ones mind for a second, there was some stupidity in the argument that it was a bad trade for Riga.

 

Here's my take as one of the three players involved in that trade.

 

Riga gets

Kameron Taylor for 1 season & 20+ games (100+ point player)

Malcom Spud for 1 season & 20+ games (80+ point defender)

Guido Schwarz Esq for 20+ games (40-60 point depth forward) who retires at seasons end.

 

Cologne gets

S38 1st round pick (6-10)

S39 1st round pick (6-10)

S39 2nd round pick (16-20)

 

The trade works for both teams, because Riga is looking to contend this year possibly and next year for sure. Cologne gets picks in two drafts to sort out which guys they want to build with their prospects.

 

Now I realize their is a rivalry and I love to get into it as you know, but we have to think about the trade on a realistic platform and not a "New York Rocks" platform. I enjoy this podcast and listen to it every week, and since calling it out for being too biased it has been very good and informative. It's coming around to a all New York podcast though at times, which I can't really blame you as it's not a VHL podcast, it's a member's podcast. Regardless it made my passport form filling out quite entertaining.

[Devise 4,475]

Oh I understand, as in their are multiple personalities and I respect each's opinion equally. It just made it seem that throwing a rivalry at the back of ones mind for a second, there was some stupidity in the argument that it was a bad trade for Riga.

 

Here's my take as one of the three players involved in that trade.

 

Riga gets

Kameron Taylor for 1 season & 20+ games (100+ point player)

Malcom Spud for 1 season & 20+ games (80+ point defender)

Guido Schwarz Esq for 20+ games (40-60 point depth forward) who retires at seasons end.

 

Cologne gets

S38 1st round pick (6-10)

S39 1st round pick (6-10)

S39 2nd round pick (16-20)

 

The trade works for both teams, because Riga is looking to contend this year possibly and next year for sure. Cologne gets picks in two drafts to sort out which guys they want to build with their prospects.

 

Now I realize their is a rivalry and I love to get into it as you know, but we have to think about the trade on a realistic platform and not a "New York Rocks" platform. I enjoy this podcast and listen to it every week, and since calling it out for being too biased it has been very good and informative. It's coming around to a all New York podcast though at times, which I can't really blame you as it's not a VHL podcast, it's a member's podcast. Regardless it made my passport form filling out quite entertaining.

 

I don't think I personally ever denied that the trade made sense for Riga. I also brought up the fact that they could use the star power added to potentially attract free agents next year. I was just agreeing with Chris in the sense that if Riga can't beat Davos this season or next season then the trade doesn't look as favorable. Not because they could of drafted better, more so that there is potential for younger players more in line with Riga's core that they may of been able to trade for. But that is neither here nor there.

 

While I'm glad you find the show far less biased, I tend to try and show the least amount of bias among all the guys on the show. In the case of analyzing that trade in specific, even from the perspective of Chris I didn't find he was that biased. He has some legitimate points. Riga has a younger core and added a good defender and a star power center to try and win it all this season or next. Seattle had players further along than Riga does and added the same pieces and are struggling to make the playoffs. Being cautious about spending for a couple of runs at this stage when the Davos Toronto and Quebec of the world seem to have a hard time being denied isn't bias at all. It's a fair argument to bring up in my opinion. 

[Guest]

I don't think I personally ever denied that the trade made sense for Riga. I also brought up the fact that they could use the star power added to potentially attract free agents next year. I was just agreeing with Chris in the sense that if Riga can't beat Davos this season or next season then the trade doesn't look as favorable. Not because they could of drafted better, more so that there is potential for younger players more in line with Riga's core that they may of been able to trade for. But that is neither here nor there.

 

While I'm glad you find the show far less biased, I tend to try and show the least amount of bias among all the guys on the show. In the case of analyzing that trade in specific, even from the perspective of Chris I didn't find he was that biased. He has some legitimate points. Riga has a younger core and added a good defender and a star power center to try and win it all this season or next. Seattle had players further along than Riga does and added the same pieces and are struggling to make the playoffs. Being cautious about spending for a couple of runs at this stage when the Davos Toronto and Quebec of the world seem to have a hard time being denied isn't bias at all. It's a fair argument to bring up in my opinion. 

Oh certainly, point taken in regards to the core. However, Chris did say he thinks it's like or worse than the Seattle trade, which makes little sense.

 

With regards to your final point, let's not forget this though for next season:

 

Davos loses Brovalenko and Linguini next year.

Quebec loses Tukio, Grigorenko, A.Valiq and Glass

Legion will have Dunlop depreciated for his final season without anything banked for 2 seasons!

Bears lose Osborne, Sound and have Lefevre depreciated without anything banked.

 

Taylor will be in his final season with banked TPE, Spud starting to bank (late) but doing it.

 

It's not out of this world to say Riga is a legit choice next year. 

[Advantage 2,891]

Oh certainly, point taken in regards to the core. However, Chris did say he thinks it's like or worse than the Seattle trade, which makes little sense.

 

With regards to your final point, let's not forget this though for next season:

 

Davos loses Brovalenko and Linguini next year.

Quebec loses Tukio, Grigorenko, A.Valiq and Glass

Legion will have Dunlop depreciated for his final season without anything banked for 2 seasons!

Bears lose Osborne, Sound and have Lefevre depreciated without anything banked.

 

Taylor will be in his final season with banked TPE, Spud starting to bank (late) but doing it.

 

It's not out of this world to say Riga is a legit choice next year. 

Weber = Spud

Osborne = Taylor

 

The only difference (and this is where it is a better deal for Riga than it was for Seattle) is that they get you for an extra season while Oz is in his last...of course Weber can be had for 2 seasons longer than Spud.

 

My argument stems from the feeling that even with the acquisitions of the two of you that Riga still isn't a favourite to win anything.  A good team they are, but I still think Davos and at least one team in the NA is better.

 

I also made it clear that if Riga won the cup then it obviously ends up a great trade but that I was surprised they made the push at this point. Then later admitted that at the same time I wouldn't hold on to those picks either.

 

If that makes you feel like scrubs, so be it.  

Edited April 11, 2014 by Advantage

[Mike 708]

Starting to listen now seems like I'm about to hear some bad Riga talk based on comments.  My thoughts on the trade is this Riga wasn't going to draft with these picks regardless so it was me trading them now at the deadline for Spud/Taylor for 2 playoffs.  The alternative would be to trade these picks in the off-season for someone from say QUE if they rebuild or Seattle if they go to retool this off-season (trading for younger players would put Riga in cap hell).  Drafting players wasn't an option because Riga already has too many forwards with 2 more active prospects in the minors Hallstrom and KJA.  This move gives Riga the chance to win over the next 2 seasons THEN after these 2 seasons when Taylor/Spud retire Rigas existing players will go up in cap so I'll still have room for everyone.  Riga already has its roster for after the next 2 seasons so the draft picks are useless now we have a roster for this season and next as well as into the future.

Edited April 11, 2014 by Mike

[Advantage 2,891]

Starting to listen now seems like I'm about to hear some bad Riga talk based on comments.  My thoughts on the trade is this Riga wasn't going to draft with these picks regardless so it was me trading them now at the deadline for Spud/Taylor for 2 playoffs.  The alternative would be to trade these picks in the off-season for someone from say QUE if they rebuild or Seattle if they go to retool this off-season (trading for younger players would put Riga in cap hell).  Drafting players wasn't an option because Riga already has too many forwards with 2 more active prospects in the minors Hallstrom and KJA.  This move gives Riga the chance to win over the next 2 seasons THEN after these 2 seasons when Taylor/Spud retire Rigas existing players will go up in cap so I'll still have room for everyone.  Riga already has its roster for after the next 2 seasons so the draft picks are useless now we have a roster for this season and next as well as into the future.

All of that is good reason to make the trade for sure.

 

Kendrick just took my comments as a little more than what they were if he feels like I talked about him and Spud as if they are depth players.

Edited April 11, 2014 by Advantage

[Devise 4,475]

I think it was just an issue of clarity. The discussion was more about our thoughts on the actual impact/reasoning of the trade and not so much the actual value of players. Chris said he didn't like the trade, but not that it wasn't a good trade. I think that is an important distinction. Because when looking at the value, I saw it as a 1st and a 2nd for Taylor (elite level center) and a 1st for Spud and Gudio. I think both of those are fair value from a trade perspective. Which in that case would make it a "good" trade from a value perspective.

 

The other half of analyzing the trade is what we spent more time on, in which we debated whether we thought it would be in fact good for Riga in terms of competing/winning. Which ultimately makes or breaks so many trades that have limited windows on them for players. 

[Fire Tortorella 2,653]

I haven't listened to the podcast yet (obviously since it doesn't have a grade), but just going off of the discussion here so far, I think the biggest difference from this trade and Seattle's trades during the off-season is that Riga currently has prospects not on the roster who look to be at least solid 2nd line players in the future in KJA and Hallstrom. None of those picks traded would likely have amounted to anything substantial during Riga's period of having cheaper contracts, so it made sense to move them for more established players in a win-now move.

 

In the end, obviously a Cup will justify this trade, but I think it's fair to say that this trade as it currently stands is a win-win for each team.

[Mike 708]

How does someone who writes so much and has fairly intelligent responses when posting (Devise) not be able to read or pronounce words/names?

[BOOM 8,659]

That may have been the nicest thing that Jericho has ever said to/about me.

 

[NotAVHLM-GM 1,858]

This is long overdue. Jericho is the only one that pew pews properly.

[Molholt 2,185]

I intend to listen today - I will say that based on the comments, let the trade play out for the two seasons, then revisit it. It sounds like Chris is saying that the trade will be looked back on at that point, depending on if it nets a title or not, and that will sway how it is framed in the future. Which is fair, why it will be looked on negatively of course, is because they still won't be able to stop JARKKO OLSEN.

 

/hijack

 

[Samurai7 102]

I started listening to this on the Metro today and even though I do not really know many people yet it was interesting. It was funny to hear myself mentioned. I will try to send something for the task perhaps. Is it usually this long?

[Molholt 2,185]

This thing turned into a bromance fest near the end. I just went from six to midnight.

[Beketov 8,944]

Thanks for the shoutout Devise haha. After Chekhov I figured I'd give people a name that was easy to pronounce / spell. If you wanna give me 100 TPE for it I'll take it though

 

And no, It had nothing to do with the SBA. Didn't even have internet to check when I came up with that name.

[RomanesEuntDomus 442]

Nice episode guys

[Fire Tortorella 2,653]

Context: 3/3 - Damn browser crashed again. Basically, I can hear Devise seething from here. I didn't know Greg that much, but he seemed like a good guy and a great contributing member to the VHL for a long time. Riga trade was discussed above. Robin Gow, Szatkowski Jr., and RGIII will be on rookie contracts, McQueen and Blade will be on prime. I know that Spud has only played 8 games with Riga so far and that there are much more than points when it comes to defensemen, but Spud's PPG has barely dropped from his time in Cologne (1.29 to 1.25). I think you'd be right Chris is a "normal" market for defensemen, but there are so few top end defensemen at this point in time so Spud's value is higher than it normally would be. Props on getting Godavari's name right Chris. Regarding VHLM parity, I'd just like to plug my idea here again and propose capping the number of 1st round picks a team can have in a single season at 2 or 3. Regarding toxicity Jericho, I've discovered the mute button is glorious. Wait, you don't like heat. Oh my god Devise you just described me when it comes to everything you hate about malls, except I don't hate malls. Except not the beach. Love the beach. Congrats STZ! Was that thread you started the thing about cats and dogs? Because if so, I saw through that right away. Yup, it was. 

 

Professionalism: 2/2 - Yup.

 

Editing: 1/1 - That intro songs brings back weird memories of the 90s.

 

Overall: 6/6

[STZ 5,339]

Thanks for the kind words, fellas!

[Kesler 1,514]

Claimed