A Call for Moderation in Moderation

[Gustav 6,428]

Anyone who's coming onto the forum and reading this article has probably already seen the thread about killing trivia which has inevitably gotten more popular than this one ever will by the time you've clicked into this one. And if you're attentive enough to read my comment in said thread for longer than two seconds, you'll notice me yelling (mostly satirically) about 1984 and such. 

 

Mostly.

 

Upon thinking about what I said for longer than two seconds, I've started to wonder why the thread I was looking for was hidden--unless I'm just an idiot who searched up the wrong terms, though I don't think I am because I went as generic as searching for "answers" and going back to the correct date. I have no idea why it was hidden--discussion was had, disagreement was had, some people felt strongly, but the whole thing ran its course and we all forgot about it once the ruling in it was reversed. Presumably, it was hidden a while after it came up and after it had died out and was no longer a source of controversy. Nobody said anything derogatory, I don't remember any personal attacks, it was just controversial and that's okay. I've looked for one or two other threads where nothing worthy of serious punishment or controversy went down and have been similarly unable to find those as well.

 

So...why? There are much more controversial, drama-filled threads I can think of that are still up. The most drama-filled thread I can think of from my time here is the one that led to our whole SBA affiliation fiasco (those who know, know), and that one is still visible. Hell, last I checked, the one about that over on their site (which was worse imo) is up as well. So why have we recently taken an interest in suppressing what's even remotely disagreeable? I completely understand hiding specific comments containing personal attacks or derogatory remarks, but entire threads, some of which contain legitimately enlightening discussion on matters relevant to the league's current affairs? That's where whatever is going on behind the scenes starts to lose me.

 

Was there a shift in mod policies, official or otherwise? I don't understand what makes a thread lockable/hideable these days, because apparently it's not much. I think our mods are good people; I'm just really confused about where the apparent need to cover things up comes from. People are going to disagree, sometimes strongly, and that's fine.

[Beketov 9,026]

I don't recall if it was hidden or not (and don't really care to look) but if I had to wager a guess on why we would hide it then it wouldn't have anything to do with a "controversy" or anything but rather just making things clear. If we leave something around that says "hey, this is a rule now" and then goes on for a page or two or 5 (or whatever it was) before saying "nope, never mind" it's just confusing to new people trying to understand the rules. Therefore it gets hidden just to keep things straight and orderly.

 

We're not always trying to hide controversy, sometimes we're just trying to hide things that aren't relevant and can add confusion. I'm not actually sure when that was hidden but I know conversation went on for a bit after the decision was reversed so we definitely weren't trying to hide anything.

[Gustav 6,428]

12 minutes ago, Beketov said:

I don't recall if it was hidden or not (and don't really care to look) but if I had to wager a guess on why we would hide it then it wouldn't have anything to do with a "controversy" or anything but rather just making things clear. If we leave something around that says "hey, this is a rule now" and then goes on for a page or two or 5 (or whatever it was) before saying "nope, never mind" it's just confusing to new people trying to understand the rules. Therefore it gets hidden just to keep things straight and orderly.

 

We're not always trying to hide controversy, sometimes we're just trying to hide things that aren't relevant and can add confusion. I'm not actually sure when that was hidden but I know conversation went on for a bit after the decision was reversed so we definitely weren't trying to hide anything.

 

And that's fine; in fact, it was a possibility that came to mind while I was writing this up. I can think of at least one other example of a thread that was hidden for what I thought was not much of a reason, though, and there seems to be a recent tendency to lock things as soon as they start to escalate--which helps nobody and really just leads to people holding grudges when they can't talk it out. I'm not pointing at anybody in particular but I feel like the line has slowly been pushed farther and farther up without any real discussion or agreement.

[Banackock 8,053]

[frescoelmo 1,276]

We move and hide threads all of the time for various reasons, if you want more details please call officer fong.

[bigAL 2,176]

One thing I’ve noticed with hidden threads is that sometimes they’re hidden when the person who started it deleted their accounts. I can think of at least one high profile member who left recently and a side effect was that all the threads he started, including both official announcements and dramatic stuff, all got hidden. 
 

I think our forum moderation is good. When things get out of hand, our Big Brother apparatus doesn’t delete or hide threads or comments, they just lock them and give all the naughty children a warning. I can see hidden things now: it’s 95% only threads started by the old guy or comments in threads that were reported for slurs that were ok in 2013 and aren’t in 2021. 
 

The forums are the archives of our entire history. The stories, the debates, the drama is all still there. The mods aren’t burning books, and we were not always at war with Eurasia. I know we have some philosophical differences about moderation, but if you DM me some more details I can try to find this elusive threads you think was hidden. 

[Nykonax 1,564]

finally reading 1984 and im getting all these references now

[fishy 1,757]

In addition to what Al and Beketov have contributed to this thread, I do feel inclined to throw a couple words in here as a moderator.

 

it's very difficult to draw a line in the sand and assign punishments for things, whether it be in the Discord or on the forums. We don't have a strict set of guidelines for "if user does X, then they receive Y punishment" because context is extremely important, and it would be nearly impossible to cover every situation in a handy dandy guide. That being said, moderators are left to use our best judgement on how to assess and respond to situations–because we're different people, we take different actions for different situations. Unfortunately, without a clear set of guidelines and each of us doing our best independently, it's inevitably going to be somewhat inconsistent.

 

To what Beketov noted, we have tried to be more attentive to the precedent set on the forums since, ideally, this is the first impression of VHL community that new members will get. This means establishing the rules and ensuring that we're clear about what will and will not be tolerated. There was some wild shit happening on this website before the COC was established, and personally, I'd prefer new folks don't have the opportunity to come into contact with some of those things and be led to believe that we still accept and tolerate those behaviors (i know this is vague, i'm intentionally keeping it as such).

 

For the record, I will say that I encourage civil disagreements on the forums for the betterment of the community. I have no issue as a moderator with folks who disagree and want to sit and argue about it as long as it doesn't turn into a fight.

 

p.s. the search function on this website is ass. can we talk about that someday? i know that's not the point of this thread but damn

Edited October 7, 2021 by fishy

[Gustav 6,428]

Fellas...I'm not making any sense here. I got enough sleep last night, I don't think I've been stressed out lately, but I've been doing stupid spaced-out/uncoordinated/nonsensical things left and right today for reasons beyond my understanding.

 

While I can think of specific examples of moderation that I don't agree with, portraying that as a big issue with the entire mod team, all the time, is wrong and I like to think it isn't something I'd do normally. 

 

I don't know what kind of drug got slipped into my lunch but I've certainly been acting like it's something. Guess that carried over into our forum and I hope I didn't put anyone off.

[Beketov 9,026]

11 minutes ago, fishy said:

the search function on this website is ass. can we talk about that someday? i know that's not the point of this thread but damn

Even if we talk there’s not much we can do, we’re working within the limitations of IPB. I do find it’s pretty solid though if you give it the right criteria. For example going to announcements and searching for “trivia” in “this forum only” brings the hidden topic up pretty quickly.

[fishy 1,757]

7 minutes ago, GustavMattias said:

Fellas...I'm not making any sense here. I got enough sleep last night, I don't think I've been stressed out lately, but I've been doing stupid spaced-out/uncoordinated/nonsensical things left and right today for reasons beyond my understanding.

 

While I can think of specific examples of moderation that I don't agree with, portraying that as a big issue with the entire mod team, all the time, is wrong and I like to think it isn't something I'd do normally. 

 

I don't know what kind of drug got slipped into my lunch but I've certainly been acting like it's something. Guess that carried over into our forum and I hope I didn't put anyone off.

dw you did it for the tpe

 

p.s. i will say that i didn't get the vibe that you were trying to call anyone out, i wouldn't stress about it

Edited October 7, 2021 by fishy

[rory 1,916]

fuck da mods

[BOOM 8,758]

I miss @gorlab

[bigAL 2,176]

4 hours ago, GustavMattias said:

Fellas...I'm not making any sense here. I got enough sleep last night, I don't think I've been stressed out lately, but I've been doing stupid spaced-out/uncoordinated/nonsensical things left and right today for reasons beyond my understanding.

 

While I can think of specific examples of moderation that I don't agree with, portraying that as a big issue with the entire mod team, all the time, is wrong and I like to think it isn't something I'd do normally. 

 

I don't know what kind of drug got slipped into my lunch but I've certainly been acting like it's something. Guess that carried over into our forum and I hope I didn't put anyone off.

Nah dude, you’re good. I know I’ve come to expect and appreciate your libertarian perspective on things. It always makes for a good conversation starter, and a great check and balance on the leadership team here. If anyone’s earned the benefit of the doubt, and a permanent disclaimer that any constructive criticism is not personal, it’s you. 
 

Doing unexplainable things and not feeling like yourself is hard enough without adding on feeling like shit about doing unexplainable things and not feeling like yourself. 

You’re good Gus, don’t forget that.