Should welfare be behind a paywall?

[jRuutu 2,333]

After witnessing the horrors of yet another attack on VHL, bots spammed the forum full of advertisements, I was not able to avoid thinking that the attack was somehow the fault of the welfare users.  The users who claim welfare, generally speaking, contribute mainly by showing up a few times a week to click a few buttons. It is telling that a bot did more work in a few hours than a team full of welfare users in the span of one season.

 

During September, VHL has received 115 dollars worth of donations. As I counted the total number of donations in September, I was not able to avoid thinking that the lack of donations was once again somehow the fault of the welfare users.  115 dollars is not a bad total, but when you look at how many users visit the site weekly - the donations total could also be higher.  That is when it all clicked: why not make Welfare something the users need to pay for!?  If you make one week's welfare claim to be worth one dollar, VHL is going to rake in a lot more money each week.  That money can then be spent on fighting against the bots in various ways.

 

I think VHL could also introduce a "Season Pass", which will be worth 15 dollars. With the season pass, any user can double the value they will get from their normal donations, for example with the season pass a user will get 10 uncapped TPE, or 2M for the player store instead of just 5 uncapped TPE or 1M for the player store.  The icing on the cake is the access to Mod, Commissioner, and BOG discussion rooms and meetings.  If you purchase a "Season Pass XL" for 30 dollars, you will also get to speak in the meetings.

 

Despite welfare users, without a doubt, playing a significant role in many of the troubles VHL faces nowadays, we can not forget the responsibility of the normal users in VHL.  These users need to donate as well to ensure that VHL is running smoothly. Adding something like a season pass will make donating more attractive as every dollar is more valuable. The hard workers in VHL deserve to be treated better than they are now. Simply having the option to purchase "welfare" once a season on top of everything is not good enough, as the donation totals show.  

 

I believe we should all contribute more by giving money to VHL to ensure that the bots will not find a way to get into the league. If someone is able to teach the bots how to claim welfare - how do we know who is a real person and who is a bot? Do we need to start asking for IDs and video applications to be part of the create-a-player process? If yes, how are we going to ensure that the system is fair as not everybody has access to a camera or what if they are not willing to share their ID with the world like that?

 

It is best for everybody if welfare users just start to pay for each welfare claim, more normal users donate, and we together fight against the bots.

 

[leandrofg 1,043]

16 minutes ago, jRuutu said:

If you purchase a "Season Pass XL" for 30 dollars, you will also get to speak in the meetings.

 

[rory 1,781]

Disappointed your article this week isn’t about the over moderation problem. Thought I knew a person..

[Victor 10,614]

he don't miss

[Gaikoku-hito 1,777]

[OrbitingDeath 2,965]

Fight the bots!

[Grape 552]

Every single article you make is an absolute gem

[Josh 1,610]

[Tetricide 603]

On 9/25/2023 at 11:31 AM, jRuutu said:

I think VHL could also introduce a "Season Pass", which will be worth 15 dollars

OK BUT HE KINDA SPITTIN HERE

 

Haha funny about WF players ponying up money to earn the WF, but the interesting-funny is why the VHL hasn't introduced a "season pass." I think your idea about 2x the dono is nice, but I think we can dive into this further. Actually trash the 2x idea completely. Keep the donation rewards as usual. However, we can separately introduce a "season pass" where you can pay an additional $15 (or whatever price point is decided, but I feel this is fair) and you get a free week (6 capped TPE) every week for the entire season. Upgrade to the $30 premium season pass to get a full free week for the entire season. For obvious reasons, the user needs to claim the update and apply the points every week as well. I think this would be a great alternative for those who aren't artistically inclined enough to make a graphic every week, have the time to write out a thoughtful 500+ word article, or have any time at all to invest in their player but would love to see their player thrive in the VHL scene. Plus, think of the additional recruitment opportunities the recruitment team could muster up to get more people interested.

[Spartan 4,096]

22 minutes ago, Tetricide said:

OK BUT HE KINDA SPITTIN HERE

 

Haha funny about WF players ponying up money to earn the WF, but the interesting-funny is why the VHL hasn't introduced a "season pass." I think your idea about 2x the dono is nice, but I think we can dive into this further. Actually trash the 2x idea completely. Keep the donation rewards as usual. However, we can separately introduce a "season pass" where you can pay an additional $15 (or whatever price point is decided, but I feel this is fair) and you get a free week (6 capped TPE) every week for the entire season. Upgrade to the $30 premium season pass to get a full free week for the entire season. For obvious reasons, the user needs to claim the update and apply the points every week as well. I think this would be a great alternative for those who aren't artistically inclined enough to make a graphic every week, have the time to write out a thoughtful 500+ word article, or have any time at all to invest in their player but would love to see their player thrive in the VHL scene. Plus, think of the additional recruitment opportunities the recruitment team could muster up to get more people interested.

Whats the monetary threshold you'd set where season pass holders can equal someone who puts in the time to max earn each week? Where's the balance between outright "pay to win" and encouraging weekly activity and site presence? 

[Tetricide 603]

11 minutes ago, Spartan said:

Whats the monetary threshold you'd set where season pass holders can equal someone who puts in the time to max earn each week?

I don't know the number, but it's definitely not arbitrary. Could be $30, or $60. You could weigh the amount of weeks there are in a season vs the potential value to see if it makes sense on a $ per week view. As far as the VHL goes, this season was 5 weeks. So that's $6/$12 (depending on if you'd rather a $30/60) per week. Perhaps you could leave it at this for just the free week instead of a full free week, that way you'd still have to do more in order to max earn every week.

 

Quote

Where's the balance between outright "pay to win" and encouraging weekly activity and site presence? 

This is where the log in, claim the update, and apply the TPE comes into play which is why I said this

48 minutes ago, Tetricide said:

I think this would be a great alternative for those who aren't artistically inclined enough to make a graphic every week, have the time to write out a thoughtful 500+ word article, or have any time at all to invest in their player but would love to see their player thrive in the VHL scene.

 

As far as "pay to win" I think it's more "pay to advance" because you can be at 1400 TPE and have a bad player. I'm not sure if every person out there is checking every VHL/E/M player's update page to see if they're just a clicker or putting in work to get more TPE..but I feel how people earn TPE is no one else's business as long as they're following the rules and the updaters are doing their job before approving  It also makes me wonder how many first-gens would be interested in something like this to retain them.

[Beketov 8,727]

On 9/29/2023 at 8:53 PM, Tetricide said:

I don't know the number, but it's definitely not arbitrary. Could be $30, or $60. You could weigh the amount of weeks there are in a season vs the potential value to see if it makes sense on a $ per week view. As far as the VHL goes, this season was 5 weeks. So that's $6/$12 (depending on if you'd rather a $30/60) per week. Perhaps you could leave it at this for just the free week instead of a full free week, that way you'd still have to do more in order to max earn every week.

 

This is where the log in, claim the update, and apply the TPE comes into play which is why I said this

 

As far as "pay to win" I think it's more "pay to advance" because you can be at 1400 TPE and have a bad player. I'm not sure if every person out there is checking every VHL/E/M player's update page to see if they're just a clicker or putting in work to get more TPE..but I feel how people earn TPE is no one else's business as long as they're following the rules and the updaters are doing their job before approving  It also makes me wonder how many first-gens would be interested in something like this to retain them.

Wasn’t sure the exact part I wanted to respond to so just gonna quote the whole thing.

 

When the SBA introduced their season pass I disagreed with the concept. They are more than entitled to do things their own way but personally I see no reason to want it in the VHL. We aren’t hard up for cash badly enough that we need the funds and having people just pay for their TPE directly goes against how the site has always been and, IMO, should always be. Someone with more disposable income should not get to take shortcuts that others don’t get.

[eagle_3450 278]

On 9/25/2023 at 12:31 PM, jRuutu said:

After witnessing the horrors of yet another attack on VHL, bots spammed the forum full of advertisements, I was not able to avoid thinking that the attack was somehow the fault of the welfare users.  The users who claim welfare, generally speaking, contribute mainly by showing up a few times a week to click a few buttons. It is telling that a bot did more work in a few hours than a team full of welfare users in the span of one season.

 

During September, VHL has received 115 dollars worth of donations. As I counted the total number of donations in September, I was not able to avoid thinking that the lack of donations was once again somehow the fault of the welfare users.  115 dollars is not a bad total, but when you look at how many users visit the site weekly - the donations total could also be higher.  That is when it all clicked: why not make Welfare something the users need to pay for!?  If you make one week's welfare claim to be worth one dollar, VHL is going to rake in a lot more money each week.  That money can then be spent on fighting against the bots in various ways.

 

I think VHL could also introduce a "Season Pass", which will be worth 15 dollars. With the season pass, any user can double the value they will get from their normal donations, for example with the season pass a user will get 10 uncapped TPE, or 2M for the player store instead of just 5 uncapped TPE or 1M for the player store.  The icing on the cake is the access to Mod, Commissioner, and BOG discussion rooms and meetings.  If you purchase a "Season Pass XL" for 30 dollars, you will also get to speak in the meetings.

 

Despite welfare users, without a doubt, playing a significant role in many of the troubles VHL faces nowadays, we can not forget the responsibility of the normal users in VHL.  These users need to donate as well to ensure that VHL is running smoothly. Adding something like a season pass will make donating more attractive as every dollar is more valuable. The hard workers in VHL deserve to be treated better than they are now. Simply having the option to purchase "welfare" once a season on top of everything is not good enough, as the donation totals show.  

 

I believe we should all contribute more by giving money to VHL to ensure that the bots will not find a way to get into the league. If someone is able to teach the bots how to claim welfare - how do we know who is a real person and who is a bot? Do we need to start asking for IDs and video applications to be part of the create-a-player process? If yes, how are we going to ensure that the system is fair as not everybody has access to a camera or what if they are not willing to share their ID with the world like that?

 

It is best for everybody if welfare users just start to pay for each welfare claim, more normal users donate, and we together fight against the bots.

 

First: VHL not having many donations is my fault just for existing I guess.

Second: You want to lock the way that I get TPE behind a pay wall, that I can't pay for because I need to use my money for other things.

Third: You want to make the VHL basically P2W and give people the ability to speak in BOG meetings for only $30 when they shouldn't be able to at all.

Fourth: Bots claiming welfare is not an issue, since the programming and runtime required for it to actually make it into the VHL would be too tedious for someone to create when they could just target an easier site.

Fifth: Why do I have a responsibility to donate, not everyone is able to, not everyone has the money to, it makes no sense to lock TPE earning behind a paywall for the people without much a]money or time.

Sixth: This is literally the worst change that could ever happen for me, and all forums have bots, it wont change much.