Welfare/pension ruins the league

[scoop 3,265]

4 hours ago, Evans said:

 

I'm not saying welfare itself is the issue. I'm saying that it being worth one TPE less than a point task for certain guys is crazy. 

 

And I feel I can speak on the whole newbie thing because I left here before because of how much went towards the vets. I created, updated for a couple of weeks and was passed up by several recreates. And when I mean passed up, I mean damn near lapped. I went from a possible top half of the first draftee to being pushed late into the second (TPE wise). 

You guys seriously need to quit saying pension is worth five points. By that logic, then point tasks are worth seven. And the point task upgrade is cheaper than the Pension II upgrade you need to purchase to be able to get five TPE.

 

And look at the damn people who are collecting Pension. They are people who do bring activity to and participate actively in the league, even if they aren't doing point tasks. Last week we had both VHLM commissioners, three VHL GM's, and two members of the BoG collect pension. It's not just people logging in, collecting pension, and ignoring the league otherwise.

[Evans 305]

21 minutes ago, Streetlight said:

You guys seriously need to quit saying pension is worth five points. By that logic, then point tasks are worth seven. And the point task upgrade is cheaper than the Pension II upgrade you need to purchase to be able to get five TPE.

 

And look at the damn people who are collecting Pension. They are people who do bring activity to and participate actively in the league, even if they aren't doing point tasks. Last week we had both VHLM commissioners, three VHL GM's, and two members of the BoG collect pension. It's not just people logging in, collecting pension, and ignoring the league otherwise.

 

Factoring in player salaries and the ability to purchase an added point to your pension/welfare thing five points is a fair number to use because it is the max I have seen. Not sure where you are getting seven from. One more would be six. 

 

I wouldn't have an issue if people were just getting pension and doing nothing else. That should be the point of it, despite me having an issue with how much it's worth. Instead we have created an outlet where people can decide to not do an actual point task, collect welfare and not miss a beat. This keeps the people at the top at the top, regardless if they are putting in the work required to maintain their status as an elite player. You need a more level playing field. Hell, there is already the carryover gap for someone to make up. 

[JardyB10 4,837]

48 minutes ago, Evans said:

 

Factoring in player salaries and the ability to purchase an added point to your pension/welfare thing five points is a fair number to use because it is the max I have seen. Not sure where you are getting seven from. One more would be six. 

 

I wouldn't have an issue if people were just getting pension and doing nothing else. That should be the point of it, despite me having an issue with how much it's worth. Instead we have created an outlet where people can decide to not do an actual point task, collect welfare and not miss a beat. This keeps the people at the top at the top, regardless if they are putting in the work required to maintain their status as an elite player. You need a more level playing field. Hell, there is already the carryover gap for someone to make up. 

He got seven from 6-PT + $2M PT upgrade = 7 TPE, just as 4 TPE + $3M Pension II upgrade = 5 TPE. So it's not fair to say "Pensioners are getting 5 while normal people are getting 6!" because normal people can get 7 just as easily. Easier, actually, since it's $1M cheaper.

 

And I feel quite the opposite on your second point. I'd much rather have someone being actually active around the league and doing welfare than having someone just do welfare and check out. And as has been re-iterated several times here, lots of those people who are doing welfare and still have jobs and join discussions, wouldn't be here at all WITHOUT welfare. That's not theory, that's a fact, proven by about half a dozen people who are contributing to this very discussion.

 

I don't think people checking in for welfare and checking out is the point of welfare at all. The point of welfare is allow lazy people like Streetlight ( ) to contribute to the league in other ways without having to write essays (I KNOW, 500 WORDS ISN'T AN ESSAY, I'M EXAGGERATING) and feel pressured to create a HOF player. Just to have a player who is as good as they can be at the member's own pace.

[eaglesfan036 4,585]

Welfare is necessary and here to stay. I do think we should get rid of the pension raising it from 4 to 5, and instead encourage people to buy the xm radio package to go from 1 to 2. Writing 150 words takes 2 minutes and those babies actually generate a lot of discussion. I'd argue xm radios actually generate more discussion than media spots because people are lazy and reading something fast like that is much nicer than browsing a whole media spot

[scoop 3,265]

3 hours ago, Evans said:

 

Factoring in player salaries and the ability to purchase an added point to your pension/welfare thing five points is a fair number to use because it is the max I have seen. Not sure where you are getting seven from. One more would be six. 

 

I wouldn't have an issue if people were just getting pension and doing nothing else. That should be the point of it, despite me having an issue with how much it's worth. Instead we have created an outlet where people can decide to not do an actual point task, collect welfare and not miss a beat. This keeps the people at the top at the top, regardless if they are putting in the work required to maintain their status as an elite player. You need a more level playing field. Hell, there is already the carryover gap for someone to make up. 

I'm saying if you're going to compare pension to point tasks, and you are factoring in the pension upgrade to get 5 tpe, then you also need to factor in the point task upgrade which allows you to get 7 tpe per point task. 

 

Also, most 2 tpe jobs are typically going to take more effort than doing a point task. So pension plus job is more effort than a point task, but equal in reward. Even if you are collecting 4 for pension, you are going to have to put in some extra effort to keep up with people doing point tasks. 

[scoop 3,265]

1 hour ago, eaglesfan036 said:

Welfare is necessary and here to stay. I do think we should get rid of the pension raising it from 4 to 5, and instead encourage people to buy the xm radio package to go from 1 to 2. Writing 150 words takes 2 minutes and those babies actually generate a lot of discussion. I'd argue xm radios actually generate more discussion than media spots because people are lazy and reading something fast like that is much nicer than browsing a whole media spot

I do think getting rid of pension upgrade, or at least pension II upgrade wouldn't be a terrible idea to hopefully increase the number of xm articles

[jRuutu 2,323]

17 hours ago, tfong said:

Howabout instead of penalizing pensioners and driving them away, howabout you just find a way to bring in more active players.

 

Sorry JR, none of your suggestions would enable me to stay here and you still haven't really shown me the strength of a straight of all pension player. The reason why there are 20 people on pension is because thats 20 bodies that are either bored or too busy to make PTs but still hang around. The point isn't to drive them away, its just for whatever reason they don't or can't make PTs. Its just an bracket really of players (kinda like baby boomers in real life). The bigger issue is recruitment, 20 pension players wouldn't be a big deal if you had big recruitment anyways to offset. You won't convert any of the pensioners to active players because they simply can't or don't want to right now. So thats 20 bodies that at least still login.

 

Don't look at it as doing pension vs PT, its basically doing pension or leaving the website.

Doesn´t something like this sound alarming at all to the people who run this place? Players will leave if they cant do pension?  What kind of message does this send to the new guys that will hopefully find VHL in the future?

 

What if there is a lot of new players coming in for the next 5 seasons? Will anything change with the welfare/pension? Would it be made more strict if there would be lets say 50 new and active players in VHL? What happens in the future if those new guys decide to create a another player after their first one? Will there be just bigger list of welfare/pension users?

 

If everything stays the same, I fear It´s going to be the same thing, but just with a bigger scale. 

 

I have perhaps changed my views little bit since starting this thing, people who have jobs in VHL and use welfare/pension should perhaps be allowed to do so, at the same time it should be made clear to the new guys that there are people who have jobs here and they got a ´different´ schedule than the average user.

 

But the people who don´t have a job around the league should be pushed into doing more work each week. There has been good ideas already in this thread and hopefully something happens with those. 

 

 

[jRuutu 2,323]

16 hours ago, Mr. Power said:

 

Why would that be a deal breaker? In today's league, a new member who signs up who is super active, 9 TPE per week has a greater chance of producing a HoF to legendary caliber player than ever before. See the top TPE earners of this past few era's. That is because there is so much middle ground, that the elite severely stand out. Which is the point of the system. New faces should be encouraged to do as much as possible because they know they have the best chance at making the best players.

Creating a elite level player does not really feel the same if there is quite few pensioner/welfare players in the league. Perhaps that is one reason why so many players get bored after recreating few times and stop doing the media spots/ graphics/podcasts and start to collect the delicious pension? Not enough competition.

 

Why run and be great when you can walk and be good?  Not saying there it´s wrong to  aim for ´good´, but the league in my opinion should push people to be great as much as possible. Make it so that everybody has the same change to be great. Re-creates get that carry over tpe which might not be loads, but it´s still ´free´ tpe. Something that the new guys don´t have. 

 

Everything has a effect on everything. Right now, If a new guy sees a player who gets 4 or 5 by just writing his name on a thread, and the new guy has to do fair amount of work for 6, it feels pretty shit. Might have a good idea behind the system, but that is how it feels and looks.  That is how I felt at first, but I already made my mind about doing those media spots etc as often as possible so I ignored it.   

Edited March 29, 2016 by jRuutu

[Baozi 1,638]

2 hours ago, jRuutu said:

Doesn´t something like this sound alarming at all to the people who run this place? Players will leave if they cant do pension?  What kind of message does this send to the new guys that will hopefully find VHL in the future?

 

What if there is a lot of new players coming in for the next 5 seasons? Will anything change with the welfare/pension? Would it be made more strict if there would be lets say 50 new and active players in VHL? What happens in the future if those new guys decide to create a another player after their first one? Will there be just bigger list of welfare/pension users?

 

If everything stays the same, I fear It´s going to be the same thing, but just with a bigger scale. 

 

I have perhaps changed my views little bit since starting this thing, people who have jobs in VHL and use welfare/pension should perhaps be allowed to do so, at the same time it should be made clear to the new guys that there are people who have jobs here and they got a ´different´ schedule than the average user.

 

But the people who don´t have a job around the league should be pushed into doing more work each week. There has been good ideas already in this thread and hopefully something happens with those. 

 

 

 

I believe it is a constant concern already that recruitment simply doesn't bring in the mass troves of players into the league. I think BOG or the admins are constantly looking at how to bolster the number of newer active players. The other part of my answer is a rock and a hard place unofruntately. You could eliminate pension altogether or make it next to useless, but the pension system was put into place exactly for the reasons that you are against. To create decent players for those that are too busy or no longer interested in point task leagues. Sim leagues in a way are a dying breed or sorts. Not that many people like to play text based RPGs in the new generation of gamers and it is likely that going forward you see less and less. I mean I'm 31, I started VHL in my early 20s? Don't remember when the start date was exactly, but I've pretty much outgrown point task leagues. I just don't find writing articles and such fun at all or a good usage of my time. But the pension plan does give me another reason to hang around, to chat with people and to take part in these discussions.  

 

I can tell you that creating a fully active elite player does feel good though, there is a significant difference.Its just at my age I really don't like writing articles and GFX was never my thing (made one disastrious video attempt). It was different when I was in university and writing an 800 word blurb was no different than doing an assignment. 

 

The population (and I think you've acknowledged this) of welfare players is only alarming because you're comparing it to the current pool of fully active players which is not as big as the league would want to operate at optimally I believe. I think the issue doesn't lie in the welfare system and new recruits aren't likely to be discouraged by a welfare system if there are more than enough active players in the league. So I believe the issue still lies within recruitment, because eliminating the pension system will not gain you recruits, you're just losing the semi-active players from the league now that is somewhat starved for players. 20 pensions out of 50 players is a pretty big deal. But if it was 20 pensioners out of 200 players? Nobody would likely bat an eye at the system. I think its a matter of perspective and the optics of the numbers, which need to be overcome through recruitment, not eliminating the semi-actives.

 

Also while we're on this point, I believe the majority of pensioners don't get 5, think most of them have 3+1 and 4 tpe a week doesn't really make you a strong player at all. Maybe a decent 2nd liner after a few seasons. So we're not taking jobs away from fully active players really.

 

Anyways discussion is good, keep it coming. 

Edited March 29, 2016 by tfong

[Bojo 221]

The fact that everybody can potentially earn the same amount of points per week regardless of how long you've been here tells me it's working. All we're doing is rewarding players who have put in the effort before, which is good.

 

Maybe raise the number from 400.

 

Edited March 29, 2016 by Bojo
engrish

[scoop 3,265]

2 hours ago, jRuutu said:

Why run and be great when you can walk and be good?  Not saying there it´s wrong to  aim for ´good´, but the league in my opinion should push people to be great as much as possible. Make it so that everybody has the same change to be great. Re-creates get that carry over tpe which might not be loads, but it´s still ´free´ tpe. Something that the new guys don´t have. 

Created players now get the greater of 30 TPE or carryover, up to 75 TPE. So new guys do have some free TPE to begin.

[scoop 3,265]

3 hours ago, jRuutu said:

I have perhaps changed my views little bit since starting this thing, people who have jobs in VHL and use welfare/pension should perhaps be allowed to do so, at the same time it should be made clear to the new guys that there are people who have jobs here and they got a ´different´ schedule than the average user.

I'm going to have to strongly disagree with this suggestion, but maybe that's just because I'm a pensioner who doesn't have a job. Then again, I don't bring much to the league anyway, right?

[CowboyinAmerica 2,735]

As somebody who thinks Welfare is fine as is, it's still funny to see all the older members get so salty over that one comment/opinion.

 

/Thunderdome'd

[Devise 4,475]

37 minutes ago, CowboyinAmerica said:

As somebody who thinks Welfare is fine as is, it's still funny to see all the older members get so salty over that one comment/opinion.

 

/Thunderdome'd

 

I wouldn't be "salty" If I could see the argument. But it isn't "easier" for older members to earn more TPE. The older members in a lot of ways have, through welfare/pension stepped aside to allow fresher faces to take their hold on the league. Some members gravitated towards that in their time, such as Green, Boubabi etc. We have a few more upcoming that are. There is no world where an older welfare player is earning as much TPE as someone who is super active, going for that HoF status. None. The rules don't allow that. Is the TPE difference per week 9 versus 5 or 6? Sure. Increasing that cap is something I think we can certainly look at for people who do point tasks. But it isn't like welfare guys are given some extra leverage or anything. Almost all of them earn less than the 9 TPE per week that the people here complaining about welfare could be earning. I find it ironic that half the complaint is "why be elite when you have no competition" yet the grounds of complaint is that it's too easy for welfare/older members to earn competent TPE. 

 

If anything, this all sounds to me like "Hey I want to be one of those elite guys, but I don't want to earn 9+ a week. So instead, I'll earn my 6-7 per week, and complain that welfare guys are just below me earning their 5-6. You know if those guys only earned 2, then I'd be an elite guy in this league. That's easier than going out and earning the extra 2-3 TPE per week that I could by being super active." Go earn your cap per week, do fan590's your point tasks, trivia, recruit the list goes on. And just like that you'll become the next O'Malley or Karnage. All of the big names on this site who are now on welfare sucked it up and did the hard work to earn their pension status If these new faces care about the league so much, as they claim, then they should feel free to go all in. We have tons of open positions for that stuff. 

 

 

Edited March 29, 2016 by Mr. Power

[Baozi 1,638]

Actually I see this discussion kinda like when I notice hobos on the streets. I mean they are there, but I only really notice them if there aren't other people nearby.

 

Like pensioners are only really noticeable because there aren't enough fully active players.

 

Which of course is what I see as the central issue.

[jRuutu 2,323]

1 hour ago, Streetlight said:

I'm going to have to strongly disagree with this suggestion, but maybe that's just because I'm a pensioner who doesn't have a job. Then again, I don't bring much to the league anyway, right?

There might be 5 other players who don´t  ´bring anything to the league anyway´ ? is there, I have no idea, but just because there is few members who are really active and bring value to the community on pension, does not mean the system is perfect and should not be open to possible tweaks and new ideas.

Edited March 29, 2016 by jRuutu

[jRuutu 2,323]

2 hours ago, tfong said:

 

I believe it is a constant concern already that recruitment simply doesn't bring in the mass troves of players into the league. I think BOG or the admins are constantly looking at how to bolster the number of newer active players. The other part of my answer is a rock and a hard place unofruntately. You could eliminate pension altogether or make it next to useless, but the pension system was put into place exactly for the reasons that you are against. To create decent players for those that are too busy or no longer interested in point task leagues. Sim leagues in a way are a dying breed or sorts. Not that many people like to play text based RPGs in the new generation of gamers and it is likely that going forward you see less and less. I mean I'm 31, I started VHL in my early 20s? Don't remember when the start date was exactly, but I've pretty much outgrown point task leagues. I just don't find writing articles and such fun at all or a good usage of my time. But the pension plan does give me another reason to hang around, to chat with people and to take part in these discussions.  

 

I can tell you that creating a fully active elite player does feel good though, there is a significant difference.Its just at my age I really don't like writing articles and GFX was never my thing (made one disastrious video attempt). It was different when I was in university and writing an 800 word blurb was no different than doing an assignment. 

 

The population (and I think you've acknowledged this) of welfare players is only alarming because you're comparing it to the current pool of fully active players which is not as big as the league would want to operate at optimally I believe. I think the issue doesn't lie in the welfare system and new recruits aren't likely to be discouraged by a welfare system if there are more than enough active players in the league. So I believe the issue still lies within recruitment, because eliminating the pension system will not gain you recruits, you're just losing the semi-active players from the league now that is somewhat starved for players. 20 pensions out of 50 players is a pretty big deal. But if it was 20 pensioners out of 200 players? Nobody would likely bat an eye at the system. I think its a matter of perspective and the optics of the numbers, which need to be overcome through recruitment, not eliminating the semi-actives.

 

Also while we're on this point, I believe the majority of pensioners don't get 5, think most of them have 3+1 and 4 tpe a week doesn't really make you a strong player at all. Maybe a decent 2nd liner after a few seasons. So we're not taking jobs away from fully active players really.

 

Anyways discussion is good, keep it coming. 

I guess the easiest and best solution for everybody is to bump the payout for point tasks with something you can buy from the store like somebody suggested earlier. Could even think about new ways to earn that weekly tpe. Some clever ideas could perhaps bring few welfare/pension players back to doing the weekly tasks and could help in bringing in new faces into the league.  There is not that many things to do for a person who is for example terrible in anything graphic related ( like myself) to earn tpe.

 

We got lot´s of creative people here who could come up with great ideas each week. For example: ´Design a T-shirt that will be handed out to fans of your team´.  

Something like that, something easy that pretty much everybody could do and that could be worth 2 tpe? or 1, but you can bump it to 2 with store purchase?   

 

In today´s league you are easily a solid 2nd liner and in some teams even a first line player with the 3+1 after few seasons. Hopefully there will be new players in the future so that pension/welfare number wont feel so massive. 

[jRuutu 2,323]

42 minutes ago, Mr. Power said:

 

I wouldn't be "salty" If I could see the argument. But it isn't "easier" for older members to earn more TPE. The older members in a lot of ways have, through welfare/pension stepped aside to allow fresher faces to take their hold on the league. Some members gravitated towards that in their time, such as Green, Boubabi etc. We have a few more upcoming that are. There is no world where an older welfare player is earning as much TPE as someone who is super active, going for that HoF status. None. The rules don't allow that. Is the TPE difference per week 9 versus 5 or 6? Sure. Increasing that cap is something I think we can certainly look at for people who do point tasks. But it isn't like welfare guys are given some extra leverage or anything. Almost all of them earn less than the 9 TPE per week that the people here complaining about welfare could be earning. I find it ironic that half the complaint is "why be elite when you have no competition" yet the grounds of complaint is that it's too easy for welfare/older members to earn competent TPE. 

 

If anything, this all sounds to me like "Hey I want to be one of those elite guys, but I don't want to earn 9+ a week. So instead, I'll earn my 6-7 per week, and complain that welfare guys are just below me earning their 5-6. You know if those guys only earned 2, then I'd be an elite guy in this league. That's easier than going out and earning the extra 2-3 TPE per week that I could by being super active." Go earn your cap per week, do fan590's your point tasks, trivia, recruit the list goes on. And just like that you'll become the next O'Malley or Karnage. All of the big names on this site who are now on welfare sucked it up and did the hard work to earn their pension status If these new faces care about the league so much, as they claim, then they should feel free to go all in. We have tons of open positions for that stuff. 

 

 

Well there is not a massive competition in the league if you look at how many players is on pension/welfare at the moment and I´m still going to say that it is too easy for welfare/pension players to earn tpe.  The competition would be tougher if more people would earn that max tpe weekly instead of ´little´ 5 or 6.

 

 If we are looking at the weekly workload that a average welfare/pension player does vs a average player who does PT´s each week, It´s quite clear the player who does the PT´s does more work? I think we can all agree on that? no?  

 

Write your name on a thread

 

vs

 

Media spot / graphic / podcast

 

Sure some guys are super active while on welfare/pension, some people cant/wont do the PT´s so they are on welfare/pension. Still the biggest chunk of your weekly PT comes from the welfare/pension or from PT´s? There is no super weird magic about that, it is what it is. 

 

And the worst thing is that you can be a successful player in the league as a welfare/pension player. Sure you are not getting your HoF status or loads of awards, but you are easily a 2nd line player in few seasons. Especially in today´s VHL. 

 

 

[jRuutu 2,323]

34 minutes ago, tfong said:

Actually I see this discussion kinda like when I notice hobos on the streets. I mean they are there, but I only really notice them if there aren't other people nearby.

 

Like pensioners are only really noticeable because there aren't enough fully active players.

 

Which of course is what I see as the central issue.

For sure. Welfare/pension players should be at the 3rd line at best. If I ever get to be a gm here, I will not only keep them on the 4th line with max 10 mins of playing time each game, but make them pay for their own food and hotel bills when we are on away tour.

[Baozi 1,638]

7 minutes ago, jRuutu said:

For sure. Welfare/pension players should be at the 3rd line at best. If I ever get to be a gm here, I will not only keep them on the 4th line with max 10 mins of playing time each game, but make them pay for their own food and hotel bills when we are on away tour.

 

 But I'm also the best defenceman on the team hahaha.

 

But I'd agree that you want to give incentive to players being active, rather than penalizing welfare.

[Devise 4,475]

8 minutes ago, jRuutu said:

For sure. Welfare/pension players should be at the 3rd line at best. If I ever get to be a gm here, I will not only keep them on the 4th line with max 10 mins of playing time each game, but make them pay for their own food and hotel bills when we are on away tour.

 

We don't have third or fourth liners here. So your idea to promote league activity is to ensure actives who claim welfare get no stats at all ever? Your focusing too much on this being a "hockey league". We aren't remotely similar to real NHL in really any way.

[jRuutu 2,323]

1 minute ago, tfong said:

 

 But I'm also the best defenceman on the team hahaha.

 

But I'd agree that you want to give incentive to players being active, rather than penalizing welfare.

 

 

Yea, some new weekly point tasks could help and the PT payout bump.

[jRuutu 2,323]

Just now, Mr. Power said:

 

We don't have third or fourth liners here. So your idea to promote league activity is to ensure actives who claim welfare get no stats at all ever? Your focusing too much on this being a "hockey league". We aren't remotely similar to real NHL in really any way.

Should we aim to be more like NHL? with 3rd/4th liners? Average welfare/pension user sounds like a perfect candidate for a bottom 6 role. 

[Devise 4,475]

11 minutes ago, jRuutu said:

Should we aim to be more like NHL? with 3rd/4th liners? Average welfare/pension user sounds like a perfect candidate for a bottom 6 role. 

 

Listen. You've lost yourself with grandiose ideas of what you want a sim league to become, not what it is.

 

There is no such thing in the VHL as someone doing welfare/pension and automatically being "labelled" as a "such and such" line player. Players play where they fit best on the teams. Even when the VHL was at it's most active, we've only ever had enough members to produce teams of 6 forwards, 4 defenders, and a goalie. In the best of situations. Sometimes a few inactives, with like 100 TPE wind up on a third line of some random team. But it rarely happens.

 

Players aren't positioned based on whether they do a PT or welfare. They are positioned based on their TPE, the team needs and make up, etc. Which is how it should be. It's not like when you claim Welfare for a week you sign up to be a "Welfare player." Half the players who have 800+ TPE aka the current top crop of the elite point earners in the league have claimed welfare at one point or another. That is all welfare is. It's help for people who don't have the time to get a point task done.

 

In no ways in a welfare player rewarded more than a person who does a point task. That is what I don't get about this anti welfare argument. You can say you put more work into a PT that someone does welfare, and that is true. That is one hundred percent true. But you also earn more TPE, consistently, through being active and doing PT's and earning up to your weekly cap than someone who just claims welfare. Ergo, you make a better player. All the top players in the league right now, all of them, have been either all PT earners or mostly PT earners with welfare in the odd week. 

 

In terms of the competition argument, how is it going to increase competition around the league if we make Welfare only earn 2 tpe per week? *I should note 2 TPE maximum. A new member joining this league with no history only earns 2 TPE on welfare. You have to of made 2 400 TPE players as well as get a store upgrade to earn the "max" in 5 tpe. If anything, we lose members who don't want to build sub par players. Then those that stick around, go from building 500-700 TPE career players (depending on what else they do with welfare, that is the general pace) to 200-400 TPE players. The actives, seperate themselves even FURTHER from the welfare players so they literally don't even have to compete with fringe welfare players who do point tasks occasionally/other things. 

 

To some of your PT ideas and suggestions. You can do a lot of what you are asking for already. You don't have to be talented in GFX to earn TPE here. There is the Fan590 section, where you can either write, or do a player jersey, or a fan t-shirt as you suggested, or anything you want. Anything remotely at all that is VHL related with a little work and you earn 1 TPE for it. You can purchase an upgrade in the store for it to earn an extra TPE. The only real thing I think we could do to help out would be increase the PT cap from 9 to 12. The PT cap by the way, since a few in this thread seem confused by how this whole system works, is how much TPE you can earn per week. Half the people complaining about how unfair it is that we have welfare don't even earn up to the cap of 9 tpe per week as it is. So don't complain to me that you can't "elite" compared to welfare players when you aren't even going the full boat that half those welfare players DID DO well before you guys were ever in this league. 

 

The system we have now makes perfect sense. Those who are permanently on welfare/pension can create competent players. Those who mix and match welfare with activity can create good players. Those who are SUPER ACTIVE earn their weekly cap, do recruiting and extra things can create HoF players. You are rewarded MOST for putting the work in. The things you guys complain that don't exist, do exist. The numbers of super actives is lower than we'd like it to be, but reducing welfare doesn't magically change that number. 

Edited March 29, 2016 by Mr. Power

[Molholt 2,183]

Welfare + Pension means doing a PT is worth 2 points to someone without it. Which, when thought of like that, is kinda silly. 

 

I can post my name and get 4 TPE, or I can write 500 words and get 6. So, my 500 words are "worth" 2 TPE. When 150 words are also "worth" 1 TPE in the VHL.com section. So 1 TPE is "worth" 150 words or 350 words. When valued as such, those obviously don't line up much. 

 

If Welfare + Pension was 3 TPE, the 500 words would be "worth" 3 TPE. So, 1 TPE would be worth 150 words (VHL.com) OR 166 words (article). That's a more fair balance of worth to words ratio.

 

Make Welfare worth 2 TPE (already is) and Pension worth 1 (currently can be 2) and still allow the purchase of a +1. Then the purchase has a more fair value, the work done for PTs is a more fair evaluation of the work put in, based on other methods of earning TPE in the league.