Remove 2 TPE per week review limit

[Beketov 9,025]

Okay, this is probably a suggestion that would affect a very small portion of the VHL but I kinda want to know why it's in place at all so if there is a valid reason I'll just shut up. Here's my suggestion though:

 

Right now PT staff can review as many things as we can get our hands on in a given week but only claim a max of 2 TPE per week, banking the rest for weeks where we might not be as active grading. The issue is that if the staff picks a week to be kinda lazy, or we're under-staffed, or whatever we can end up having to review 25+ things in 1 week and we can only claim for 8 of them. For example, I just graded 24 things this morning, that's 6 TPE worth of grading. There is still another 7 left and that's not counting the 2 that I made which I can't review. Obviously we're a bit behind and that is an extra issue but I think this limit is making that issue worse.

 

See, from grading those 24 things and the banked TPE I already had I can claim the full 2 TPE per week (and still get this week) for the next 3 weeks. In theory that means I could completely stop grading for that time period and still be paid for it while things sit there with no reviews. That would result in a pile up and the same thing being repeated. Banking TPE gives no incentive to grade every week because I know that I've got my points anyway so adding extra will just mean more points I can't use.

 

Now obviously I'm not saying we should be allowed to claim over the 9 TPE/week limit because that would be insane. What I'm suggesting is that up to that limit we remove the limit that we can claim from reviews. So, for example, if I reviewed 20 things in a week (5 TPE) and claimed Pension I would still hit my 9 TPE but not have to do a PT that I may or may not have time to do. I'm still contributing to the league with the reviews that I'd be doing anyway but have more incentive to do them every week, even if it gets backed up. Hell, if it gets really backed up and I manage to review a full 9 TPE worth (unlikely to happen since that would be 36 things but it is possible) why shouldn't I be able to claim that work instead of it just sitting there doing nothing for me unless I decide not to work.

 

I'm not sure if this all makes sense and I apologize for constantly flipping between the word review and grade but my point should still be there. As long as it stays under 9 TPE/week why shouldn't PT staff be able to claim as much as they review?

Edited June 20, 2016 by Beketov

[Phil 5,119]

I think that as long as everyone stays under the TPE Cap, claiming more that 2 TPE for PT Staff should be fine. If you do a crap-ton of reviewing over a month or so... and have 9 banked TPE... when a really busy week comes along, I see no reason why you wouldn't be able to just use all of those for that week! 

[frescoelmo 1,276]

9 minutes ago, Phil said:

I think that as long as everyone stays under the TPE Cap, claiming more that 2 TPE for PT Staff should be fine. If you do a crap-ton of reviewing over a month or so... and have 9 banked TPE... when a really busy week comes along, I see no reason why you wouldn't be able to just use all of those for that week! 

 

I'm of the same opinion.  Usually I used my backlog for fill-in TPE when I didn't have enough to get to 9.

[Phil 5,119]

1 minute ago, frescoelmo said:

 

I'm of the same opinion.  Usually I used my backlog for fill-in TPE when I didn't have enough to get to 9.

 

I think you, me, @Victor, and slobo all did hahah

[Beketov 9,025]

1 minute ago, frescoelmo said:

 

I'm of the same opinion.  Usually I used my backlog for fill-in TPE when I didn't have enough to get to 9.

Exactly! In any given week I can usually get at least enough reviews for 3 TPE so even if I just wanted to do a PT and then still get max without doing an article I should be able to do that with the reviews that I've done.

 

What's odd is that I know I used to do this. I'm not even sure when exactly this 2 TPE thing showed up ( I only heard about it a little while ago). 

[Molholt 2,185]

Could be separate issues and me misremembering, but I think the limit was put in because Updaters thought it was unfair.

 

Maybe that was just the FIGA stuff though, idk.

[evrydayimbyfuglien 600]

I think their issue was with the FIGA stuff which is no longer a thing now. 

[Beketov 9,025]

Just now, Molholt said:

Could be separate issues and me misremembering, but I think the limit was put in because Updaters thought it was unfair.

 

Maybe that was just the FIGA stuff though, idk.

I think that was just FIGA, this was put in before this season which is when that all went down. I don't see how updaters would have a concern with fairness really. They get paid a set fee for a set amount of work. Our pay is fluid depending on the amount of work we do. With this limit the pay is basically 2 TPE regardless of how much we actually do though which incentivizes to either not grade as much (get to 2 TPE and then stop) or go on binges and then take huge breaks.

[evrydayimbyfuglien 600]

I actually didn't know there was a limit or that I could bank the extra until this past Monday. I just graded what I graded, got whatever TPE @DollarAndADream said I got, and that was it. Never even questioned it tbh. I guess we should be happy we can bank it and we don't just lose it.

[Beketov 9,025]

Just now, evrydayimbyfuglien said:

I actually didn't know there was a limit or that I could bank the extra until this past Monday. I just graded what I graded, got whatever TPE @DollarAndADream said I got, and that was it. Never even questioned it tbh. I guess we should be happy we can bank it and we don't just lose it.

For awhile I was doing that too with no issues but apparently this is a thing.

 

Why should we just be happy with banking it though? I spent over an hour this morning grading when I could have spent far less time to claim the same 2 TPE. Assuming I do my job every week the rest of that banked stuff will just sit there being useless so it's not different than losing it really.

 

PT staff get paid based on what we do which is fair but we are getting paid far less than what we are actually doing a lot of the time because 3/4 of it is going into banked pay.

[Molholt 2,185]

Consider it a retirement fund - get a ton banked up and then when you quit or get fired, you can claim grader pay for seasons!

[evrydayimbyfuglien 600]

Just now, Beketov said:

For awhile I was doing that too with no issues but apparently this is a thing.

 

Why should we just be happy with banking it though? I spent over an hour this morning grading when I could have spent far less time to claim the same 2 TPE. Assuming I do my job every week the rest of that banked stuff will just sit there being useless so it's not different than losing it really.

 

PT staff get paid based on what we do which is fair but we are getting paid far less than what we are actually doing a lot of the time because 3/4 of it is going into banked pay.

I get what you're saying. I think the GFX guys are kind of an exception. I mean, I know you said you graded for an hour + grading today to get what, 24 things done? I think if the media guys graded 24 600 word articles, it would take even longer so I rarely (never) get over what's required for 2 TPE as far as I know. Maybe I did but not knowing we were capped it never occurred to me I was only getting 2 TPE for more work. 

 

I think maybe a better solution would be to grade more gfx graders or revamp just their pay scale.

[frescoelmo 1,276]

 

21 minutes ago, Phil said:

 

I think you, me, @Victor, and slobo all did hahah

 

And @JardyB10 lol... Those were the times

 

[Beketov 9,025]

5 minutes ago, evrydayimbyfuglien said:

I get what you're saying. I think the GFX guys are kind of an exception. I mean, I know you said you graded for an hour + grading today to get what, 24 things done? I think if the media guys graded 24 600 word articles, it would take even longer so I rarely (never) get over what's required for 2 TPE as far as I know. Maybe I did but not knowing we were capped it never occurred to me I was only getting 2 TPE for more work. 

 

I think maybe a better solution would be to grade more gfx graders or revamp just their pay scale.

4 is a relatively fair number (compared to the 8 it used to be) although a slight increase I don't think could actually hurt; as much as I hate saying it. I think more accurately though the MS guys shouldn't need quite as much. it doesn't take THAT long to read 600 words but it definitely takes longer than analyzing a GFX does. If 4-5 is fair for 1 TPE for GFX than I think 2-3 should be fair for MS.

 

With that said, I still don't think we should have a limit here. If we do I don't think it should be 2, maybe even just increasing it to say 4 would be better. 2 isn't even enough that a PT and grading can get the full 9 TPE a week.

[Will 4,660]

Yeah I don't think any limit existed when I was head grader. 

[Beketov 9,025]

Just now, Draper said:

Yeah I don't think any limit existed when I was head grader. 

Yet @DollarAndADream didn't create it; I believe @Kendrick actually informed him about it. If this limit exists shouldn't we at least be able to track down where the heck it came from haha

[Phil 5,119]

1 hour ago, Beketov said:

I think that was just FIGA, this was put in before this season which is when that all went down. I don't see how updaters would have a concern with fairness really. They get paid a set fee for a set amount of work. Our pay is fluid depending on the amount of work we do. With this limit the pay is basically 2 TPE regardless of how much we actually do though which incentivizes to either not grade as much (get to 2 TPE and then stop) or go on binges and then take huge breaks.

 

The FIGA issue with the updaters was the UNCAPPED TPE rewards at the end of each season. Their argument was based around around the fact that they do just as an important job as the graders (and now that it's just reviewing, the updaters' job is arguably more important) but no such rewards for them at the end-of-season exist. 

 

It was never an issue with week-to-week TPE use. Just that uncapped TPE at the end of the season.

[Beketov 9,025]

 

Just now, Phil said:

 

The FIGA issue with the updaters was the UNCAPPED TPE rewards at the end of each season. Their argument was based around around the fact that they do just as an important job as the graders (and now that it's just reviewing, the updaters' job is arguably more important) but no such rewards for them at the end-of-season exist. 

 

It was never an issue with week-to-week TPE use. Just that uncapped TPE at the end of the season.

 

Yeah, that's what I thought it was and that has been removed now anyway.

 

This suggestion of course isn't asking for anything uncapped, just a different way to earn the 9 TPE/week for doing something I'm already doing anyway.

[Phil 5,119]

Just now, Beketov said:

This suggestion of course isn't asking for anything uncapped, just a different way to earn the 9 TPE/week for doing something I'm already doing anyway.

 

Did we ever establish when and why this was changed to a limit of 2 TPE per week anyway? I honestly don't see any reason why that rule should exist. Let's just change it unofficially and see if anyone notices or cares

[Beketov 9,025]

1 minute ago, Phil said:

 

Did we ever establish when and why this was changed to a limit of 2 TPE per week anyway? I honestly don't see any reason why that rule should exist. Let's just change it unofficially and see if anyone notices or cares

TBH when I was in the Euro conference I know I claimed 3-4 on certain weeks and @brovy never said anything but apparently @Kendrick has brought it up before to @DollarAndADream. The fact that even the updaters don't seem to agree on it is really a case for the "where the fuck did this come from" question.

[Phil 5,119]

There's no benefit to capping it at 2 TPE per week... only detriments. At least the way we did it before ENCOURAGES graders to review a lot of stuff so that they can always ensure they can earn their 9 TPE per week... especially if they know they'll be busier a couple weeks down the road.

 

This will lead to my podcasts getting reviewed before 3 weeks and everyone barely having to wait to receive feedback on spots and graphics as well. Only benefits. I don't see ONE consequence about it. If someone can see one, please tell us... but this is too obvious to even be an issue. 

[Kesler 1,514]

10 minutes ago, Beketov said:

TBH when I was in the Euro conference I know I claimed 3-4 on certain weeks and @brovy never said anything but apparently @Kendrick has brought it up before to @DollarAndADream. The fact that even the updaters don't seem to agree on it is really a case for the "where the fuck did this come from" question.

Iam not the best example of a good updater so..

[Beketov 9,025]

Just now, brovy said:

Iam not the best example of a good updater so..

I was just pointing out that even amongst the people who SHOULD know of such a rule or why it exists there is confusion. Further reason it should simply be abolished. As Phil said, there are no real benefits of it.

[DollarAndADream 3,356]

Yeah, I never knew about for a long time either, even as the Head Grader. I didn't find out until Kendrick started updating my player that there was this limit.

 

So then I started informing the other guys who are graders, and from then on I was placing it in the hiring PM's I did. I believe I asked a blue team about as well and they confirmed it. I know I didn't just fully go on Kendrick's word at least, because I needed confirmation.

 

I never got why it's a rule either. I've had banked TPE from it for a long time, and it's gone up and down for a long time. It's basically the only reason why a lot of weeks these days I don't do any reviews and I just let my team do their thing. That hasn't really worked though recently since activity has gone down like it usually does when NHL season is over. But, me not grading is more of a me problem.

[Kendrick 4,741]

One of the reasons you can't claim more then 2 TPE a week on grading is the fact no other job allows you to fill in TPE when you haven't done a PT. If I don't do a PT this week, I can't just go out and update more than my conference to make up for it.