2013-2014 NHL Discussion Thread

[diamond_ace 3,112]

Shero fired

[Fire Tortorella 2,653]

But not Disco Dan?

[diamond_ace 3,112]

But not Disco Dan?

It was originally reported that both were, but then at the press conference, the guy representing upper management corrected it to say that only Shero was fired. Bylsma probably will be, when it comes down to it, but they said they want to bring in the new GM first and see where he wants to go with it. Basically, they're firing Bylsma as well but making someone else the bad guy.

Edited May 16, 2014 by diamond_ace

[Devise 4,475]

It is such a shame expectations are what they have to be. Shero and Dan both did great with the Pens imo. Sure they had some hiccups, but I'd hardly say either "lost" the team or was the reason the Pens couldn't get it done. The fact is the Pens were never an "elite" level playoff team. They have had the pieces to make deep runs provided they play well in the playoffs and their cup run proved that. But even since then they have always middled and haven't made the finals. But that isn't to say they haven't been good. With the exception of this season, which they basically lost to Henrik Lundqvist, the Pens have always been outed by teams that are way better playoff teams than them, or by a weak performance in a key position, like goaltending. 

 

To me this screams of change for the sake of change. The Pens can't get rid of the talent they pay so much for (Crosby, Malkin) that in some ways hamper their ability to create a deeper roster so they make management changes because that is all one can really do. The illusion of progress. As a Caps fan I often wonder the same thing at times, if the team could be better constructed as a playoff team if way too many millions weren't sucked up by 2 or 3 players. 

[diamond_ace 3,112]

Teams generally perform better under a coach with "new car smell" as I posted on one of Meg's statuses the other day, but the issue I have with this is who out there is better? Who can we replace these two with that is actually an improvement? I don't think there are coaches or GMs available that could do it. 

[Guest]

Teams generally perform better under a coach with "new car smell" as I posted on one of Meg's statuses the other day, but the issue I have with this is who out there is better? Who can we replace these two with that is actually an improvement? I don't think there are coaches or GMs available that could do it. 

Well in all fairness I don't think Bylsma is one of the best coaches in the league or on the market. Trotz is easily the biggest fish to catch.

[Devise 4,475]

That is another fair point Jason. Personally I hope the Caps try to pick up Shero. He had more balls in making trades than our previous GM did, considering the move to get Iginla, Staal, Jokinen etc. 

 

I don't know just looking over rosters it's easy to see why the quality playoff teams are such. Since 2010 the three teams that have won the Cup (Kings, Hawks, Bruins) all have smarter invested Cap situations. Pitt has over $30 mill invested in Crosby, Malkin, Letang and Fleury. That is 4 top players, two forwards a D and a goalie that nearly eats up half of the expected salary cap next season. Conversely four players from say the Hawks that are the top players at the same positions eat up just over $24 mill. That of course being Towes, Kane, Seabrook and Crawford.That extra six million you save nets you another top six player, a couple of high end third line players. Endless possibilities. 

 

I also really do question once you get to the brass tax of it all, are the Malkins, Stamkos, Crosby's, Ovechkins of the world really that much better specifically when it comes to playoff performances than the Towes, Kanes, Kopitars and Bergereons? Hell you could argue the others have proven to be even better. Almost all of them are several million cheaper as well. 

 

As a Pens fan Jason if you had to pick between Malkin or Crosby, which one would you rather trade? And would you even be open to trading one of them? 

[diamond_ace 3,112]

That is another fair point Jason. Personally I hope the Caps try to pick up Shero. He had more balls in making trades than our previous GM did, considering the move to get Iginla, Staal, Jokinen etc. 

 

I don't know just looking over rosters it's easy to see why the quality playoff teams are such. Since 2010 the three teams that have won the Cup (Kings, Hawks, Bruins) all have smarter invested Cap situations. Pitt has over $30 mill invested in Crosby, Malkin, Letang and Fleury. That is 4 top players, two forwards a D and a goalie that nearly eats up half of the expected salary cap next season. Conversely four players from say the Hawks that are the top players at the same positions eat up just over $24 mill. That of course being Towes, Kane, Seabrook and Crawford.That extra six million you save nets you another top six player, a couple of high end third line players. Endless possibilities. 

 

I also really do question once you get to the brass tax of it all, are the Malkins, Stamkos, Crosby's, Ovechkins of the world really that much better specifically when it comes to playoff performances than the Towes, Kanes, Kopitars and Bergereons? Hell you could argue the others have proven to be even better. Almost all of them are several million cheaper as well. 

 

As a Pens fan Jason if you had to pick between Malkin or Crosby, which one would you rather trade? And would you even be open to trading one of them? 

Open to trading whoever makes the team better. For the right price, that could be anyone. I'd rather keep Malkin of the two, Crosby is more injury-prone and has missed long stretches of his career, but I think for that reason teams might be hesitant to offer fair value. I do, however, think that retaining Fleury would be the biggest possible mistake this team could make. He makes a decent chunk of money and sucks half the time. When he's on, he's worth it, but how often is he on? 

 

I also think (and it pains me to say this, because Orpik is my favorite) we need to clear out some of the older defensemen and build the new group around Maatta, Despres and the other young guys. 

[diamond_ace 3,112]

Also, it's brass tacks, not brass tax. 

[Devise 4,475]

Interesting. I'm with you in the open to trading anyone debate. I know it'll likely never happen, that is to see either Malkin or Crosby traded. Not at this stage in their careers. But I have been feeling that about Ovechkin as well lately. One of my favorite players but he nearly makes 10 million a year in cap hit. For lack of defensive efforts and questionable leadership ability that is a lot to hit. I kind of feel like building the team around Backstrom may be a better idea.

 

I also wonder though if any team would be willing to take on players of that stature. Quality players of course, but with such high cap hits the only teams that could even afford them are your Islanders and Panthers and Sabres of the world. Tough to get pieces from them as it is. 

 

I like Maatta though, what are you thoughts on Letang? He eats up huge salary as well and I've seen tons of Pens fan have a very love hate relationship with him lately. 

[Fire Tortorella 2,653]

I can't see any of Crosby, Malkin, Ovechkin, etcetera being traded without the original team retaining a portion of the cap hit. At the same time, I can't see either the Penguins or Capitals agreeing to trade those players while retaining cap hit.

 

As a Flyers fan who watched Bylsma over the years with the Penguins and Team USA, I really can't say he's a good coach. His absolute refusal to try and change up Crosby and Malkin's shifts when the Flyers match up Couturier/Giroux the past couple years is just baffling. While the Penguins have some extremely talented players, a fair amount of them are mental midgets when it comes to the stuff after the whistle. The Flyers put the book out on how to beat the Pens in the playoffs in 2012. You engage them after the whistle and they get off their game.

 

The current configuration of this Penguins team reminds me of the Flyers after the 2010 season. Both teams have a ton of money tied up in a few high-end players, but don't have the prospects or cheap ELCs to fill out the rest of the roster (although the Penguins do have a good amount of defensive prospects who could chip in next season). Similar to the Richards and Carter trades, trading Letang away for picks/prospects may hurt in the short-run, but it may be the best way to move forward in the long-run.

 

Edit: Devise post!

Edited May 16, 2014 by flyersfan1493

[TheLastOlympian07 2,388]

How could you say Crosby is more injury prone, he had a concussion sure but the broken jaw was a fluke. also Malkin has had his fair share of injuries and was injured this year. matter fact when isnt Malkin hurt? 

[Guest]

How could you say Crosby is more injury prone, he had a concussion sure but the broken jaw was a fluke. also Malkin has had his fair share of injuries and was injured this year. matter fact when isnt Malkin hurt? 

Uhh even getting hit in the jaw makes him injury prone. Injury prone has to do with the ability get injured more or less times. Crosby is a band-aid. One concussion? He's had at least 2.

[TheLastOlympian07 2,388]

Uhh even getting hit in the jaw makes him injury prone. Injury prone has to do with the ability get injured more or less times. Crosby is a band-aid. One concussion? He's had at least 2.

he played all 80 games this season, plus 13 in the playoffs. plus the Olympics. Malkin played in 60 this year plus 13 in the playoffs plus olympics. I think the fluke injuries are over. 

[8Ovechkin8 262]

Saying Crosby is injury prone is laughable. Its arguable to say that he came back to early from his first concussion, and broken jaw is a broken jaw its just pure bad luck. Other than those injuries he's been fine and durable this season and there's no reason to think he's injury prone.

[Guest]

Guys it doesn't matter what the injury was, the fact he keeps having injuries and has missed 153 games in his career (8.5 seasons) is somewhat injury prone. To miss an average of 17-18 games a year based on his career is kind of where that comes from. Is he a good player? Yes. However he tends to get injured and in that he isn't as valuable as once thought. (Still high though).

 

Shawn, Malkin has missed 102 games in 7.5 seasons. So unless he misses 51 games next year he isn't as prone to injury. An injury prone player can miss a full seasons worth of games in half his career.

 

An older example. Wayne Gretzky missed 97 games in his entire career, which was 1487 games long. You average that over his career seasons (20) and thats 5 games a year. You don't think that's relevant? Alright.

 

Here is a modern example. Mike Modano retired 2 seasons ago and here is his career: 1499 Games played in a 20 seasons and missed 147 games. Thats an average of 7.5 games a season. 

 

If you guys don't think they are injured prone or can't play through injury, you have to look at it again.

[boubabi 4,725]

^Injury prone ?

[Guest]

^Injury prone ?

Haha thats a tad different.

[8Ovechkin8 262]

You can argue its similar because it is one injury that caused extended time missed. Similar to Crosby but he has 2. If you want to label someone injury prone think Marion Gaborik, or Sami Salo. Someone who gets injured to the extend of missing more than 5-8 games a season on separate injuries. Strained hamstring, bruised ribs, sprained ankle are all things I'd classify as "injury prone" type injuries. You can no way tell me a concussion and broken facial bones falls in the same category.

Edited May 17, 2014 by 8Ovechkin8

[diamond_ace 3,112]

Interesting. I'm with you in the open to trading anyone debate. I know it'll likely never happen, that is to see either Malkin or Crosby traded. Not at this stage in their careers. But I have been feeling that about Ovechkin as well lately. One of my favorite players but he nearly makes 10 million a year in cap hit. For lack of defensive efforts and questionable leadership ability that is a lot to hit. I kind of feel like building the team around Backstrom may be a better idea.

 

I also wonder though if any team would be willing to take on players of that stature. Quality players of course, but with such high cap hits the only teams that could even afford them are your Islanders and Panthers and Sabres of the world. Tough to get pieces from them as it is. 

 

I like Maatta though, what are you thoughts on Letang? He eats up huge salary as well and I've seen tons of Pens fan have a very love hate relationship with him lately. 

I have a very hate hate relationship with Letang. I've never been a fan of offensive defensemen, and I think Letang especially isn't as good in his own end as he should be.

[Guest]

You can argue its similar because it is one injury that caused extended time missed. Similar to Crosby but he has 2. If you want to label someone injury prone think Marion Gaborik, or Sami Salo. Someone who gets injured to the extend of missing more than 5-8 games a season on separate injuries. Strained hamstring, bruised ribs, sprained ankle are all things I'd classify as "injury prone" type injuries. You can no way tell me a concussion and broken facial bones falls in the same category.

If he keeps having concussion symptoms or keeps getting them entirely though it is injury prone. Because the word prone means "Liable to suffer from or likely to re-experience", which means Crosby would be prone to concussions more so than others, thus injury prone. Now whether you guys think a Concussion is an injury or not is the real question. Even if he has had a broken facial bone, its still considers him prone to it. Injuries seem to follow him no matter what it is.

[8Ovechkin8 262]

HE'S HAD TWO INJURIES LOL HOW ARE INJURIES FOLLOWING HIM.

 

 

Based on your logic, anyone who has ever had a concussion in their life is injury prone, because once you have a concussion you're more prone to get it than others. Which is entirely wrong.

[Guest]

HE'S HAD TWO INJURIES LOL HOW ARE INJURIES FOLLOWING HIM.

 

 

Based on your logic, anyone who has ever had a concussion in their life is injury prone, because once you have a concussion you're more prone to get it than others. Which is entirely wrong.

Well technically you answered yourself. If you have had one you are more prone to more, thus you are prone. The word prone was used in that last sentence and in this one. He seems to miss time quite frequently, it's a fact.

[Sandro 251]

BENNING SOON PLS THX BOSTON

[Sandro 251]

LORD TREVOR AND SIR BENNINGTON SHALL LEAD US TO THE PROMISED LAND. 

 

PLEASE TRY AND PICK UP ON MY INCREDIBLY OBVIOUS SARCASM. I AM EXCITED THO.