boubabi 4,725 Posted June 15, 2015 Share Posted June 15, 2015 the bad pussy part was awkward. The poisoning was obvious tho. DollarAndADream 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boubabi 4,725 Posted June 15, 2015 Share Posted June 15, 2015 and Arya = Daredevil confirmed boubabi 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sandro 251 Posted June 15, 2015 Share Posted June 15, 2015 I don't believe anything. Sam said Jon always comes back. I believe in Sam. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boubabi 4,725 Posted June 15, 2015 Share Posted June 15, 2015 (edited) That Miranda's death 10/10 and it's not Cersei's body that we saw. It was another actress with CG Edited June 15, 2015 by boubabi JardyB10 and Caillean 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gorlab 4,321 Posted June 15, 2015 Share Posted June 15, 2015 Pfff, fuck the Dragons the fuck u say???? Caillean 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gorlab 4,321 Posted June 15, 2015 Share Posted June 15, 2015 Caillean 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sandro 251 Posted June 15, 2015 Share Posted June 15, 2015 (edited) Jon isn't dead FYI All the buildup just to throw that storyline away? Melisandre showing up just in the nick of time to work some of her witchcraft stuff? No fucking way he's dead. Jon Snow may be dead, but at the very least I expect we'll be saying hello to "Lord Stoneheart". Edited June 15, 2015 by Sandro Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gorlab 4,321 Posted June 15, 2015 Share Posted June 15, 2015 If I was in the game of thrones I would wield a greatsword called Fadethrower. JardyB10, NotAVHLM-GM, Caillean and 1 other 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corco 1,233 Posted June 15, 2015 Share Posted June 15, 2015 If I was in the game of thrones I would wield a greatsword called Fadethrower. *CircusMonkey Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DollarAndADream 3,356 Posted June 15, 2015 Share Posted June 15, 2015 That Miranda's death 10/10 and it's not Cersei's body that we saw. It was another actress with CG Yeah, wasn't she pregnant during filming? Also, we've seen her naked in movies such as 300, and that's definitely not the same body. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Admin Victor 10,922 Posted June 15, 2015 Author Admin Share Posted June 15, 2015 I am so disappointed in the show makers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Admin Victor 10,922 Posted June 15, 2015 Author Admin Share Posted June 15, 2015 Olly = Benioff and Weiss Caillean 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Devise 4,475 Posted June 15, 2015 Share Posted June 15, 2015 I knew it was coming. It just felt so obvious. Jon turned into hero character and last remaining character (okay close to last) with any sense of moral fiber? MUST DIE! The way they did it too was sad. AFTER he lets all the Wildlings through? Sigh. Honestly I feel like the show (and the books) entire purpose is to make you HATE everyone who is still alive by the time the white walkers come. Because I'm kind of at that point. Other than Tyrion, to a lesser extent Jamie, and Arya all the fucking characters suck. Not like "badly written." But they all have such huge character flaws which is obvious intentional. So many are far too selfish, far too stubborn, or just far too fucking evil to cheer for. Which is the point right? When the white walkers come and WIN we will be like "god damn it felt so good seeing all the bastards who stab Jon Snow stare into the face of a million walkers and finally fucking realize they were stupid and shouldn't of killed their leader for a stupid reason." Although seeing Stannis get his just deserts after sacrificing his entire family didn't feel like justice. It just felt...sad and depressing. A guy who lost himself and everything he cared about on his quest and when he finally gets his come up ins, yeah your like "maybe don't trust lord of light till death?". I said this after season one when Ned died, but seriously this story is just about actual fucking reality. With fleeting heroics, unneeded deaths and travesties, stupidity running rampant and often times in the most key positions for a society....it's literally the world. Everything constantly held together by a piece of duct tape and some cardboard. And it's all in the "hope" that the world we think we'll get to exists. But it doesn't. Just like the show. There is only one ending, ultimate death for nearly everybody. Fucking christ, the purpose of entertainment is to distract us from how depressing life is. I'm speaking life in the larger sense of course, not the day to day individualized sense of happiness. Thrones instead exists to bash your head in with remainders, every time you see the slightest sense of something more optimistic? Bam. No way. Anyway this ramble is over, show is still an intriguing show but we literally have like two non morally compromising characters left which is Bran and Arya. Amazing how the Starks save for Sansa were really the only characters that actual had a real moral code. And ironically enough, are all dying... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gorlab 4,321 Posted June 16, 2015 Share Posted June 16, 2015 wow maybe that's how the two mediums will differ book = humanity survives the long winter or w/e show = humanity doesn't survive long winter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JardyB10 4,865 Posted June 16, 2015 Share Posted June 16, 2015 *CircusMonkey AnalFister*? Olly = Benioff and Weiss Ah, written and performed by Theon's very own sister! Victor 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JardyB10 4,865 Posted June 16, 2015 Share Posted June 16, 2015 I knew it was coming. It just felt so obvious. Jon turned into hero character and last remaining character (okay close to last) with any sense of moral fiber? MUST DIE! The way they did it too was sad. AFTER he lets all the Wildlings through? Sigh. Honestly I feel like the show (and the books) entire purpose is to make you HATE everyone who is still alive by the time the white walkers come. Because I'm kind of at that point. Other than Tyrion, to a lesser extent Jamie, and Arya all the fucking characters suck. Not like "badly written." But they all have such huge character flaws which is obvious intentional. So many are far too selfish, far too stubborn, or just far too fucking evil to cheer for. Which is the point right? When the white walkers come and WIN we will be like "god damn it felt so good seeing all the bastards who stab Jon Snow stare into the face of a million walkers and finally fucking realize they were stupid and shouldn't of killed their leader for a stupid reason." Although seeing Stannis get his just deserts after sacrificing his entire family didn't feel like justice. It just felt...sad and depressing. A guy who lost himself and everything he cared about on his quest and when he finally gets his come up ins, yeah your like "maybe don't trust lord of light till death?". I said this after season one when Ned died, but seriously this story is just about actual fucking reality. With fleeting heroics, unneeded deaths and travesties, stupidity running rampant and often times in the most key positions for a society....it's literally the world. Everything constantly held together by a piece of duct tape and some cardboard. And it's all in the "hope" that the world we think we'll get to exists. But it doesn't. Just like the show. There is only one ending, ultimate death for nearly everybody. Fucking christ, the purpose of entertainment is to distract us from how depressing life is. I'm speaking life in the larger sense of course, not the day to day individualized sense of happiness. Thrones instead exists to bash your head in with remainders, every time you see the slightest sense of something more optimistic? Bam. No way. Anyway this ramble is over, show is still an intriguing show but we literally have like two non morally compromising characters left which is Bran and Arya. Amazing how the Starks save for Sansa were really the only characters that actual had a real moral code. And ironically enough, are all dying... Book-readers jimmies are rustled for pretty much the same reasons you've stated. It almost seem like, instead of the traditional "good guys have plot armor," the show has made it "bad guys have plot armor and kill good guys for shock." I personally think it's too early to really say that, but I can see where they're coming from. It was the biggest gripe for Stannis' demise though. They change his character so much and then make his ultimate plot device to bring Melisandre to Jon. In the books he is probably one of the most fascinating complex characters. A brilliant military commander who, when buried in snow, refuses to even burn some of his prisoners because half his army is made up of non-believers. But the show has him get out-foxed by Ramsay and his 20 good men and he's suddenly desperate enough to burn his legacy. Even if he does end up somehow doing so in the novels (he left Mel, Shireen, Selyse all at the Wall), you just have to know it will make a lot more sense in the more expanded medium. Ditto for Jon. They just made him the perfect commander and the Night's Watch hate him for allying with wildlings despite the fact many of them witnessed the single most horrifying threat to the realm at Hardhome a week ago. Whereas in the books he was legit breaking vows to the Night's Watch. He gave Stannis pro-tips to win the North, sends Mance on a mission to rescue his "Arya" from Winterfell, which ends inconclusively, but then he receives a letter from "Ramsay" threatening him and the NW over the Theon-fArya escape debacle. Jon Snow is all like, "I KNOW THIS IS BREAKING MY VOWS SO I'M NOT GOING TO MAKE YOU COME WITH ME TO FUCK UP THE BOLTONS BUT WHO IS WITH ME TO FUCK UP THESE BOLTONS!?" And the Wildlings are all like "YEAHHHH!" and then NW is like bro you need be ded. Basically he was just all in all too gung-ho in non-NW affairs, and allying with the wildlings was just there for the continued tension. Meanwhile, the bad guys don't have plot armor whatsoever. AFFC focused so much on how shit falls apart for the Lannisters after Tywin dies, and ADWD shows so many instances of the people of the North being like "FUCK FREYS, FUCK BOLTONS, THE NORTH REMEMBERS!" And it's such a great source of ongoing tension in all those respective storylines. So I guess it boils back down to it being a tough adaptation, because of all the little things in the novels making it just a wonderful story. I still think people (especially the book-readers) are being too hard on this season though. I'm willing to give D&D the benefit of the doubt that all the "lazier" plot points were just needed to build onto something much greater which will require the bulk of the story hours. Perhaps in their minds it doesn't matter how intricate the plot is leading to the demise of Stannis and Jon because it's everything that happens after that's important. So maybe this season wasn't as strong as the previous ones, but I'd rather judge it when everything is said and done. If D&D are truly hopeless without following the source material word for word, we'll find that out for sure in a couple years. Victor 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Devise 4,475 Posted June 16, 2015 Share Posted June 16, 2015 Book-readers jimmies are rustled for pretty much the same reasons you've stated. It almost seem like, instead of the traditional "good guys have plot armor," the show has made it "bad guys have plot armor and kill good guys for shock." I personally think it's too early to really say that, but I can see where they're coming from. It was the biggest gripe for Stannis' demise though. They change his character so much and then make his ultimate plot device to bring Melisandre to Jon. In the books he is probably one of the most fascinating complex characters. A brilliant military commander who, when buried in snow, refuses to even burn some of his prisoners because half his army is made up of non-believers. But the show has him get out-foxed by Ramsay and his 20 good men and he's suddenly desperate enough to burn his legacy. Even if he does end up somehow doing so in the novels (he left Mel, Shireen, Selyse all at the Wall), you just have to know it will make a lot more sense in the more expanded medium. Ditto for Jon. They just made him the perfect commander and the Night's Watch hate him for allying with wildlings despite the fact many of them witnessed the single most horrifying threat to the realm at Hardhome a week ago. Whereas in the books he was legit breaking vows to the Night's Watch. He gave Stannis pro-tips to win the North, sends Mance on a mission to rescue his "Arya" from Winterfell, which ends inconclusively, but then he receives a letter from "Ramsay" threatening him and the NW over the Theon-fArya escape debacle. Jon Snow is all like, "I KNOW THIS IS BREAKING MY VOWS SO I'M NOT GOING TO MAKE YOU COME WITH ME TO FUCK UP THE BOLTONS BUT WHO IS WITH ME TO FUCK UP THESE BOLTONS!?" And the Wildlings are all like "YEAHHHH!" and then NW is like bro you need be ded. Basically he was just all in all too gung-ho in non-NW affairs, and allying with the wildlings was just there for the continued tension. Meanwhile, the bad guys don't have plot armor whatsoever. AFFC focused so much on how shit falls apart for the Lannisters after Tywin dies, and ADWD shows so many instances of the people of the North being like "FUCK FREYS, FUCK BOLTONS, THE NORTH REMEMBERS!" And it's such a great source of ongoing tension in all those respective storylines. So I guess it boils back down to it being a tough adaptation, because of all the little things in the novels making it just a wonderful story. I still think people (especially the book-readers) are being too hard on this season though. I'm willing to give D&D the benefit of the doubt that all the "lazier" plot points were just needed to build onto something much greater which will require the bulk of the story hours. Perhaps in their minds it doesn't matter how intricate the plot is leading to the demise of Stannis and Jon because it's everything that happens after that's important. So maybe this season wasn't as strong as the previous ones, but I'd rather judge it when everything is said and done. If D&D are truly hopeless without following the source material word for word, we'll find that out for sure in a couple years. I'd of probably of been more open to the concept of the way D&D are loosely adapting now, changing things as they please if Season 1 and 2 weren't so closely adapted from the books. Keep in mind I"ve only read the first two books. But I have no issues taking liberties with adaptations, provided it makes sense. Stannis sacrificing everything was a great choice for his character, if it lead somewhere. Imagine the complexities if Stannis takes Winterfell, finds Sansa and convinces Jon to leave the Nights Watch to come be with his "presumed" one last remaining family member? All while the horrors of losing his wife and child (by his own will) haunt him. The nightmares, the question did he sacrifice too much as he pushes on now having Wildling support, Nights Watch support and the North. Will he ever crumble? Instead he sacrificed everything for nothing. Like literally nothing. Not even a bloody HINT of something. It felt like they did what they did so the blow when Jon dies didn't feel like two "hero" characters dying, as Stannis despite his push with the Lord of Light was turning into such with great speeches for his daughter earlier this season, and a true sense of purpose and a line. All his men desert him, (nearly all) and he still marches anyways. He see's the odds as the horses ride? He draws, knowing full well "fuck it I fucked up I"m dead." There is no "justice" for the viewer there. There is no sense of a gratifying death. Just a depressing end to a character arc that you thought was actually leading to something, even if he still died...you felt like he had purpose. But he didn't. Sure he tried to siege Kings Landing, sure there were consequences to that. But ultimately his legacy is really nill. Not just in the shows own world either, but as a character from an outside the box perspective. He just existed. Again to my argument that it is so much like life. People just exist. We try to put meaning to ourselves but realistically only a select few individuals in human history have ever made any sense of significant impact. The Jon stuff you mentioned just makes me more angry. The fact that in the books he actually gives cause and reason to the Nights Watch to off him makes me grit my teeth. In the show, to me despite the "looming" of it, it felt so premature and insane to me. Trying to believe that all these people (some of whom were at Hardhome) wouldn't recognize the actual threat of thousands upon thousands of undead zombies is insane. Nearly half the Nights Watch had seen one already as it attacked the wall in a previous season if you recall. Then there was the Hardhome stuff, which other brothers saw with their own eyes and lived to tell the tale other than Jon. Where was the speeches to the rest of the brothers from them? Defending Jon. Realizing "holy shit there is a shit ton of them and even with the wildlings we have a snowballs chance in hell." Instead these same characters say fuck it, and are so petty that they lust for revenge on a character who as the show represents was basically making good leadership decisions at a serious time of crisis. A person who if any even remotely rational person thought about it would agree allying with ANYONE AND EVERYONE to try to stop the White Walkers is probably a good idea. It just feels forced. It could just be a case of wanting the people who watch the show to be more supportive of Jon when he dies, to add to the impact, but it contradicts itself. The same people that are so selfish they only seem to care about themselves (several corrupt watch brothers) can't recognize that incoming doom kills them to. So even if they were to act selfishly, they would still want to survive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Admin Victor 10,922 Posted June 16, 2015 Author Admin Share Posted June 16, 2015 I appreciate both the essays above but I have, I think, in my mind, managed to separate the book from the show, but the show doesn't follow up on its own fucking teasers. - The Syrio and Benjen shit pissed me off to no end, I had really high hopes this would be their moment to go ahead of the books with something legit mind-blowing. Instead, they go ahead of the books with what, Myrcella dying and Stannis (off screen so eh? Does he become like the Mance of the show? eh fuck it)? Weak. - Fuck that episode title too. Stoneheart tease right there. And again, would have been a major win if the show had managed to conceal it and drop the bomb that episode. Instead of Arya killing "Meryn fucking Trant" (-Hound). Granted Arya has a similar moment in the books but season finale, really? Instead, show removes bunch of shit and adds nothing of its own. - Where the fuck did Baelish go? Another tease. He was taking an army to Winterfell and.... Maybe it will pay off next season, maybe he will turn out to be a genius (again), but everything he did this season was illogical and his teleporting device seems to only work one way. SO many teases and no pay-off. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Koradek 179 Posted June 16, 2015 Share Posted June 16, 2015 You spoiled the finale for me Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NotAVHLM-GM 1,858 Posted June 16, 2015 Share Posted June 16, 2015 You came into the topic though;) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Koradek 179 Posted June 16, 2015 Share Posted June 16, 2015 You came into the topic though;) Yeah but it was before the episode had even aired. I thought I was safe with "spoilers and you will be banned" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Admin Victor 10,922 Posted June 16, 2015 Author Admin Share Posted June 16, 2015 boubabi's fault. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boubabi 4,725 Posted June 16, 2015 Share Posted June 16, 2015 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RomanesEuntDomus 442 Posted June 16, 2015 Share Posted June 16, 2015 (edited) Yeah thanks for the spoilers... Already went into the red wedding semi-spoiled and now this, for fucks sake... Edited June 16, 2015 by RomanesEuntDomus Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boubabi 4,725 Posted June 17, 2015 Share Posted June 17, 2015 DollarAndADream, Koradek, Sandro and 1 other 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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