5 TPE x 15 = 75 TPE

[Gudnason 607]

As the league came up with a host of events and activities to celebrate its tenth anniversary recently, one of the most intriguing promotions I noticed was that "any new recruitment referral [on Tuesday and only on Tuesday] is worth 5 uncapped TPE." This is unique, as usually recruitment drives only offer such large rewards once the recruit has amassed a certain amount of TPE. In cases where TPE is awarded upon player creation, I recall that the compensation is usually only 1 TPE. With such a large opportunity looming, in the five or six days between this announcement and July 18, I had approached a significant amount of people asking for the favour of creating a fictitious hockey player in a fictitious hockey league online, in return for various favours that range from me doing chores for my sister to being a "corrupt piece of shit" by giving one of my subordinates two consecutive Mondays off.

 

With my past reputation of creating multis, the 75 TPE that I earned from this promotion was put on hold at the request of the Board of Governors. While I do not see any rules I have violated, I do admit that this can be considered somewhat shady, as even I was surprised I managed to convince 15 people to create a player. 75 TPE is quite a lot, and I can see how some members may be frustrated at me suddenly having amassed this amount of TPE in one day.

 

First, if I was really making multis as I have been accused of by some, I could have easily made 316 multis over the course of 24 hours, and updated Birkir Holm Gudnason to 99 in every attribute aside from experience. Okay, maybe not as that would mean I would have to make one multi roughly every four-and-a-half minutes for 24 hours straight. Whlie it is easy to maintain that pace, that is definitely not sustainable for 24 hours. Point being, if I wanted to make multis to abuse the 5 TPE bonus, I could have, and would have, easily went beyond 15 players.

 

Second, aside from my efforts, I believe the total number of recruits we got on July 18th can be counted on the fingers of one hand. Both hands AT MOST. Those who are complaining didn't even bring in any recruits themselves. There was nothing stopping them from recruiting their friends, coworkers, or even the most frequent recruit - a buddy from another sim league, who makes a player, and often never shows up again.

 

At this point, all I want is closure. The VHLM has now been updated twice since, and all I've been told is that Corco has been instructed by the BoG to hold off on updating my players. There has been no timeline of any news, nor any communication made directly to me about the progress of such talks. In the mean time, my advice to the league is to not again offer such generous rewards in future recruitment drives. Perhaps instead of restricting TPE to be awarded until a recruit reaches 75 TPE, the first milestone could be lowered to something like 50 TPE. Even such marginal deduction would mean that a new recruit would either have to do the autobiography and rookie profile, or a couple weeks of point tasks before they could reach 50 TPE. A couple weeks is enough time for a new member to immerse themselves into the site and decide whether or not they would like to stick it out for the long term. Instead of 5 TPE at 75 TPE and 10 TPE at 200 TPE, maybe the rewards could be staggered out more. 15 TPE woud still be the maximum one recruit could net you, but maybe 3 TPE at 50 TPE, 3 TPE at 75 TPE, 3 TPE at 100 TPE, 3 TPE at 150 TPE, and 3 TPE at 200 TPE might be worth a look?

 

Oh, and if we do give away TPE again in the future just for player creation, maybe a hard cap would be a smart thing to do.

 

For Rudi Ying

[Gudnason 607]

Oops, this 590 ended up being longer than the media spots I just wrote.

[BOOM 8,648]

But that's the point. What use are 15 recruits that you know are never going to return to the site to earn, update or contribute to board activity? Technically you got 15 recruits, but the VHL needs active new members that will keep the league alive/growing, not just new 1 post accounts. Not a shot at you, but the TPE reward wasn't the point of the drive.

[Gudnason 607]

12 minutes ago, BOOM said:

But that's the point. What use are 15 recruits that you know are never going to return to the site to earn, update or contribute to board activity? Technically you got 15 recruits, but the VHL needs active new members that will keep the league alive/growing, not just new 1 post accounts. Not a shot at you, but the TPE reward wasn't the point of the drive.

 

I know, that's why I said I admit it was somewhat shady. But other members have also recruited people who don't ever come back again, and have got rewarded, albeit on a smaller scale.

[NotAVHLM-GM 1,858]

Yes, and we have tried to keep talking to these members trying them to actually do something and return to the site. 

[Corco 1,162]

It's understandable from both sides. In your favor, the announcement said nothing about a required number of TPE or anything for the recruit to reach in order for you to get 5 TPE; this does technically make your argument valid. However, like others have said, the whole point is recruiting is to have these new members stay, and it kind of seemed like these new members knew that they weren't going to stay. I know when I personally recruit people, I do my best to get them to stay, but it just doesn't work out a lot of the time. I'm not 100%, but I think none of your recruits have even logged back in since creating those players, which is probably why people are upset. 

 

I wasnt around in the past for the issue with your multis, but I don't think that's the big issue here. I think if any member earned 75 TPE from a single day of recruiting the league would be looking into it. And yes, other people do sometimes do this, but not on as big of a scale as you, which is why it's receiving so much attention. People usually let it slip if it's one or two recruits, but fifteen is just too big of a number to ignore. 

 

 

If it was my decision, I would say that you would still get TPE from this (thanks to the bad wording of the reward), although not as much as you would be getting. I'd say you get maybe 30-35 TPE.

[Beaviss 4,956]

It was a really bad time of the season to have a recruitment drive my one and only recruitment on that day hasn't played any games yet

[Smarch 3,091]

9 minutes ago, Beaviss said:

It was a really bad time of the season to have a recruitment drive my one and only recruitment on that day hasn't played any games yet

You are 100% correct. 

 

We had some leadership gaps during that time due to personal reasons, so hopefully now that were flowing good we'll be able to have people in games by early next week for the next three months!

 

We apologize as a league to the people that were negatively effected by the bad timing of the anniversary celebrations, it need to be sooner. 

[Tagger 2,722]

12 minutes ago, Beaviss said:

It was a really bad time of the season to have a recruitment drive my one and only recruitment on that day hasn't played any games yet

Yeah, it wasn't a good time for a recruitment drive, but at the same time there were some VHLM GMs who had the available money and roster space to bring in your recruited guy but didn't, so unfortunately he should have been playing in the playoffs but the failings of other GMs meant that he wasn't able to. 

[Quik 4,113]

2 minutes ago, Tagger said:

Yeah, it wasn't a good time for a recruitment drive, but at the same time there were some VHLM GMs who had the available money and roster space to bring in your recruited guy but didn't, so unfortunately he should have been playing in the playoffs but the failings of other GMs meant that he wasn't able to. 

To be fair, how sure are we that @Frank would have sent the PM to put him on the roster anyways?

[Kendrick 4,741]

The issue is not a belief over if they are multi's. Its that recruitment was played as some sort of joke by you. I believe the BOD has come up with a plan so you receive 15 TPE or something. But after being here for 10 years and recruiting a ton of people, what you did was a joke. You treated recruitment like it was a game to get you TPE gains, not for the purpose of bringing people to the site to stick around. It's the principle and purpose behind it. If you can't see that, you are a further behind than we could imagine.

[Gudnason 607]

5 hours ago, Corco said:

It's understandable from both sides. In your favor, the announcement said nothing about a required number of TPE or anything for the recruit to reach in order for you to get 5 TPE; this does technically make your argument valid. However, like others have said, the whole point is recruiting is to have these new members stay, and it kind of seemed like these new members knew that they weren't going to stay. I know when I personally recruit people, I do my best to get them to stay, but it just doesn't work out a lot of the time. I'm not 100%, but I think none of your recruits have even logged back in since creating those players, which is probably why people are upset. 

 

I wasnt around in the past for the issue with your multis, but I don't think that's the big issue here. I think if any member earned 75 TPE from a single day of recruiting the league would be looking into it. And yes, other people do sometimes do this, but not on as big of a scale as you, which is why it's receiving so much attention. People usually let it slip if it's one or two recruits, but fifteen is just too big of a number to ignore. 

 

 

If it was my decision, I would say that you would still get TPE from this (thanks to the bad wording of the reward), although not as much as you would be getting. I'd say you get maybe 30-35 TPE.

 

Thanks for the semi-closure. I do know that the point is to recruit new members to inject new blood. I have admitted in the past that this is not my strength. If I knew of any people who I can see VHL being their thing, you can be for sure that I would have brought them here ages ago. It's like people sharing good things, as the VHL has been a great part of my life, and why wouldn't I share if I could find the right people? The VHL isn't something like a good restaurant, where I will tell all my friends about it and they will try it out. Eating is a necessity, and even if it's not exactly a necessity, it sure for hell is a lot more mainstream an activity to do than joining a fictitious hockey league, unless you find the right person.

 

So is the BoG still actively looking for a happy medium? Or has it been dead for a while and no one is working towards any constructive proposals that would both (1) decide on my settlement, and (2) proactively prevent these situations from again happening in the future?

[Gudnason 607]

1 hour ago, Kendrick said:

The issue is not a belief over if they are multi's. Its that recruitment was played as some sort of joke by you. I believe the BOD has come up with a plan so you receive 15 TPE or something. But after being here for 10 years and recruiting a ton of people, what you did was a joke. You treated recruitment like it was a game to get you TPE gains, not for the purpose of bringing people to the site to stick around. It's the principle and purpose behind it. If you can't see that, you are a further behind than we could imagine.

 

To me, free TPE for a broken chat room is as much a joke as recruiting 60-year-old seniors who will never log back on again. Let's be honest, you don't think the guy who made the "50 years bitch" banner did it as a joke, or for potential TPE gain? You don't think people applying for the 1 TPE paying job of posting practice facility or posting welfare claims is for TPE gains? If the principle and purpose behind paying TPE for jobs is to encourage and promote activity, it sure isn't doing a good job or its intended purpose, in my honest opinion.

[Corco 1,162]

3 minutes ago, punkhippie said:

 

Thanks for the semi-closure. I do know that the point is to recruit new members to inject new blood. I have admitted in the past that this is not my strength. If I knew of any people who I can see VHL being their thing, you can be for sure that I would have brought them here ages ago. It's like people sharing good things, as the VHL has been a great part of my life, and why wouldn't I share if I could find the right people? The VHL isn't something like a good restaurant, where I will tell all my friends about it and they will try it out. Eating is a necessity, and even if it's not exactly a necessity, it sure for hell is a lot more mainstream an activity to do than joining a fictitious hockey league, unless you find the right person.

 

So is the BoG still actively looking for a happy medium? Or has it been dead for a while and no one is working towards any constructive proposals that would both (1) decide on my settlement, and (2) proactively prevent these situations from again happening in the future?

I don't have access to the BoG, so I don't really have an idea on how long it will take.

[Gudnason 607]

Just now, Corco said:

I don't have access to the BoG, so I don't really have an idea on how long it will take.

 

Makes sense. Thanks for everything bud!

[Banackock 7,976]

How many of these "15" recruits actually are still on here - logging in and updating etc? Also, can't we IP track and shit?

[Corco 1,162]

2 minutes ago, Banackock said:

How many of these "15" recruits actually are still on here - logging in and updating etc? Also, can't we IP track and shit?

Practically all haven't logged back in since making a player.

[Devise 4,475]

From what I recall we determined that we would look into the legitimacy of some of your recruits and reward TPE based on that. There was no way you were getting 75 TPE from this. No way. Because not all of those recruits are legit.

 

But to your counter argument, while not all of everyones are also completely legit, the fact remains that they weren't abusing the system. Don't abuse the system and we won't pay attention to you. We hastily came up with the rules for the 10th Anni in a pinch due to league activity and it needing to be done. We all knew some people may manipulate the recruitment rule, and from our perspective we said we'd look at it as a good faith type situation. You don't abuse the system, we won't check into your recruits too heavily to make sure you didn't earn that much false TPE. After all we gave a lot of TPE away for it. 

 

But you sir didn't do that. You absolutely one hundred percent abused the system, and while sure you may not of broken any rules. This isn't about rules. Thats why it was the good faith system, so that when it comes time to determine who should and shouldn't get TPE the people who are actively making issues where there are none by abusing systems don't get all their TPE rewards for it. It's simple and easy. 

[Kendrick 4,741]

2 hours ago, punkhippie said:

 

To me, free TPE for a broken chat room is as much a joke as recruiting 60-year-old seniors who will never log back on again. Let's be honest, you don't think the guy who made the "50 years bitch" banner did it as a joke, or for potential TPE gain? You don't think people applying for the 1 TPE paying job of posting practice facility or posting welfare claims is for TPE gains? If the principle and purpose behind paying TPE for jobs is to encourage and promote activity, it sure isn't doing a good job or its intended purpose, in my honest opinion.

Except entering a banner contest for 2 TPE is considerably less destructive to the system then what you did. What you did actually means people who spent years of recruiting actual members who stuck around has gone to waste. Why has it gone to waste? Because to you recruiting 15 people for the sake of easy TPE is what you were looking to do here, not inject new blood into our forum. So people like @Green and I who have recruited a buttload of members here have never even earned 75 TPE in total through our time here putting in an actual effort to recruit, are left sitting here puzzled as to why someone tried to snake the system.

 

To add to that, we have someone in a leadership role (VHL GM) actively searching for a way to exploit the system and make it so his player has a head up on something he literally took 5 minutes to do at work with his co-workers who may never come back (and even stating that they came just to get you the TPE).

[Devise 4,475]

And before people go all "but the hard iron clad rules." This isn't the legal system. It's a god damn community side forum. If we have to try to come up with overly complicated completely ironed out rules that ruin other peoples fun because a few people choose to abuse systems, we've already lost. Those who are trolls and abuse will not interfere with our ability to run a good faith community where people treat each other with respect. 

 

It's not like we are taking formalized league rules here. We are talking about the "rules" of a giveaway that is meant to be celebrating 10 years of this league. If you can't do nothing but abuse that, sorry but we are going to go hard on you and you alone. One bad apple won't ruin our tree, sorry. 

[Gudnason 607]

1 hour ago, Devise said:

From what I recall we determined that we would look into the legitimacy of some of your recruits and reward TPE based on that. There was no way you were getting 75 TPE from this. No way. Because not all of those recruits are legit.

 

But to your counter argument, while not all of everyones are also completely legit, the fact remains that they weren't abusing the system. Don't abuse the system and we won't pay attention to you. We hastily came up with the rules for the 10th Anni in a pinch due to league activity and it needing to be done. We all knew some people may manipulate the recruitment rule, and from our perspective we said we'd look at it as a good faith type situation. You don't abuse the system, we won't check into your recruits too heavily to make sure you didn't earn that much false TPE. After all we gave a lot of TPE away for it. 

 

But you sir didn't do that. You absolutely one hundred percent abused the system, and while sure you may not of broken any rules. This isn't about rules. Thats why it was the good faith system, so that when it comes time to determine who should and shouldn't get TPE the people who are actively making issues where there are none by abusing systems don't get all their TPE rewards for it. It's simple and easy. 

 

I understand your points and where you are coming from. I'm not trying to argue, but now instead of saying I'm solely abusing the system, you're bringing into discussion the legitimacy of my recruits. Anyhow, I look forward to a swift and logical resolution to this matter.

[Bushito 1,945]

There is no legitimacy of these recruits. None are active, none earned a TPE, none will be back. How much TPE is deserved for this stunt that was being bragged about? None