VHLM Cap Rule

[Victor 10,938]

Season 27 is too long to make a difference, nor did I make the ruling back then. Since S32, treatment of these situations has been consistent.

[CoachReilly 688]

Fong forfeited the TPE as well I believe. I also believe he posted something in his update thread stating he would not use those points.

[CowboyinAmerica 2,889]

So what really matters here: Can we please put this rule in big flashing neon lights in multiple places, as well as make sure all VHLM GMs know the intracacies? Because I feel like the real problem here is Bern banking on Olynick, when they possibly should have been more aware of the consequences.

[Guest Svoboda_3]

Jobs (grading, updating, TPE Index etc.) in the VHL shouldn't affect the 175 cap imo. It really is a member giving back to the league. Obviously it counts as TPE in pay, but shouldn't factor in as points towards the VHLM cap of 175. Without all that everyone does around here, we certainly wouldn't be here to debate this. And not that it would save anybody or in this case Olynick, but just in general those TPE earned from positions should be exempt.

[Victor 10,938]

Jobs (grading, updating, TPE Index etc.) in the VHL shouldn't affect the 175 cap imo. It really is a member giving back to the league. Obviously it counts as TPE in pay, but shouldn't factor in as points towards the VHLM cap of 175. Without all that everyone does around here, we certainly wouldn't be here to debate this. And not that it would save anybody or in this case Olynick, but just in general those TPE earned from positions should be exempt.

that would take a lot of calculating and it's still TPE which goes to the player and makes them better and considering this rule is in place to ensure good players go to the VHL, that's really counter-productive.

[Guest Svoboda_3]

You would just go through their page, see where they are TPE wise and deduct all that they earned from their position of service here in the VHL, leaving you with their "VHLM-Cap Total"

Edited March 12, 2014 by Svoboda_3

[Victor 10,938]

But really, that would mean players could go into the VHLM with 200 TPE in the sim yet 175 on their player pages and that is the opposite of what we're trying to achieve.

I sort of understand the notion but people who do things for the VHL should be in the VHL anyway. It's not like they're being punished by going up to the VHL.

[Guest Svoboda_3]

It's not like they're being punished by going up to the VHL.

To Vasteras they are.

[AwfulHomesick 148]

It's not like they're being punished by going up to the VHL.

I'm a goalie prospect on a team with a starter already there. The point has already been made that if I go up to the VHL I'll be missing out on some valuable TPE I won't receive if I get forced up.

[Guest]

To Vasteras they are.

In the case of Olynick he would be. Which is actually a point Victor brought up earlier too. They will make rare cases where players can stay down. I for one would hate to see an active member be screwed over getting sent up to back up 8 games.

[Victor 10,938]

I'm a goalie prospect on a team with a starter already there. The point has already been made that if I go up to the VHL I'll be missing out on some valuable TPE I won't receive if I get forced up.

Yes but obviously you're a special case. No need to change the rule for the majority of the league.

[Doomsday 4,128]

These rules were put in place to make sure new members who enter the VHLM have a chance to do damage in the sim and see progress of their players.

 

If this is what we want, then the VHLM needs to be updated more than three times a year.

[Doomsday 4,128]

Additionally, is there a way we can make a different hard cap for goalies? As in, perhaps bump it to 200 for goalies or make it so that goalies must be called up in order to play in the VHL, especially since there's only one starting spot for them on a team. A player that squeaks by with 175 TPE can still play in all 72 games on the second line or something like that. A goalie would only play eight games as a backup. It's a much different situation and I think the rule needs to reflect that.

[CowboyinAmerica 2,889]

Different argument obviously, but I can see it as worthwhile.

[Corco 1,236]

175 and 200 are too high anyway, they should be moved down.

[d3vilsfire 132]

I think there should be clause for goalies... it would be really unfair to have Awful be stuck behind a starter...

[Victor 10,938]

Additionally, is there a way we can make a different hard cap for goalies? As in, perhaps bump it to 200 for goalies or make it so that goalies must be called up in order to play in the VHL, especially since there's only one starting spot for them on a team. A player that squeaks by with 175 TPE can still play in all 72 games on the second line or something like that. A goalie would only play eight games as a backup. It's a much different situation and I think the rule needs to reflect that.

Then wouldn't a similar situation arise when a goalie is near 200 TPE and a starter is already on their VHL team?

If this is what we want, then the VHLM needs to be updated more than three times a year.

They were last season and will be this season.

[sterling 1,997]

Dont see the benefit in making a special cap for goalies really. There arent that many goalies chomping at the bit with 10 teams in the league now. Perhaps this may be an issue if we had 15 VHL caliber goalies hanging around.

[sterling 1,997]

And really, a good goalie seems to be more impactful than a good skater at the VHLM level. See Brookside for instance. They dont need any more advantages with their achievement tracker already securing them close to 20 TPE anyway. Just reduces parity imo

[Victor 10,938]

3. I like d3vils' idea about carryover being used after people move on from the VHLM or at least after their pre-draft season. Maybe cap it at 28 (the most first-gens can earn with 3 doubles and VHLM TC). It's an interesting proposal which has been lost in the shuffle.

when reading this i saw that there was an issue about recreates having a large amount of TPE right from the start.

 

This issue has been brought up before, and new recruits have expressed how annoying it is to have re-creates completely out do them in TPE from day 1.

 

So here is what i propose:

 

I still believe the recreates should get the TPE they receive for recreating

 

they should be rewarded for their time and dedication to the league and their continuation through a recreate

 

TPE is not immediately awarded to the recreate.

 

You do not start off your VHLM career with the TPE, but u start out with the 0 TPE like everyone else

You play your first season in the VHLM as any other recruit.

You must play 72 games (total = 1 season) in the VHL before you can claim the TPE for being a recreate.

 

I feel like this has more of a psychological impact on new recruits and levels the playing field for VHLM.

 

Thoughts?

This proposal though.

Cap initial carryover at 28 TPE, allow to add extra carryover (1 to 47 TPE) after player is drafted in the VHL. May be difficult to manage but the idea is decent.

[CoachReilly 688]

Disagree with the up front cap of recreation TPE. Nice idea but would ultimately screw the player who only gets 1 season of VHLM Achievement Tracker. It adds unnecessary work and most players in here have admitted it was added motivation. Then people will start complaining about the 47 TPE bump players get right at the draft.

[sterling 1,997]

Yes, doesn't seem like something that is needed.

[JardyB10 4,865]

I'm neutral to it. 

 

On one hand, it might indeed level the VHLM playing field for noobs vs. recreates, which makes everyone feel good inside when comparing themselves to the veterans and vice versa.

 

On the other hand, know who I feel is even more dominant in the VHLM than recreated VHLM rookies?  1st gens going in for a second post-draft tour of duty.  For example, yes, Brookside definitely lit up Olynick last season because of his carryover advantage.  But now Brookside is in the VHL, and Olynick is the best goalie in the VHLM.  So now if we had a brand new goalie create for this season, they see Olynick in the same league as them, and they think, "Well fuck, how am I supposed to compete with that?"  It's an endless cycle, no matter how you look at it.

[JardyB10 4,865]

As for the rest of this thread, I the misinformation being thrown around in the first five pages was really annoying.  I didn't know the exact situation, but I figured it was as easily resolvable as it turned out to be, and it probably would have saved a lot of frustration if y'all just waited for someone who actually knows what their talking about to appear (i.e. Jason, Higgins, Victor, me (haha waiting on me, great idea)). 

 

As has already been clarified, I don't know of anyone who bended the hard cap rule since it's been implemented.  It's not nearly as complicated as everyone's made it out to be.  I vaguely recall Fong doing some sketchy shit, but I doubt we would have let him walk away with that unresolved.  I didn't recall Molholt having to give up the TPE he bought from Player Store, but he definitely shouldn't have.  I know he gave up TC and at least a portion of his pre-season predictions.  I *DO* recall wanting to make PS purchases only available in off-season after that incident though, I can't remember if we followed through with that. 

 

All in all, no one should be upset.  We're not out to fuck people over, there's just relatively simple hard cap rules.  And it was easily solved.  I suppose we should put them somewhere less hidden and re-word it to make it more obvious maybe, but I'm pretty sure it's relatively straightforward.

[sterling 1,997]

Ban Jardy imo