Town of Salem #8

[eaglesfan036 4,605]

Just now, Spartan said:

If I was TT, why would I kill witch lol, or keep going with lynching Flex. I had half of you voting with me yesterday when I made the brief flip. I could have easily led a charge away from Flex. 

Conversely, if I was TT why would I push the vote towards Flex when you wanted to go Nyko, now that our new info shows Nyko is most likely DR? 

[osens 297]

3 minutes ago, Spartan said:

If I was TT, why would I kill witch lol, or keep going with lynching Flex. I had half of you voting with me yesterday when I made the brief flip. I could have easily led a charge away from Flex. 

tbh you changed your vote at one moment from flex to nyko, but I don't think you are tt 

[Spartan 4,531]

@OrbitingDeath I'm not jailing you, but you need to revive the transporter tonight. 

 

For TI claims, we have:

LO = Barzal

LO = Hatty (potentially TT)

Invest = Doom (possibly consig)

Sheriff = Z16 (also maf? idk if a LO has actually seen him visit) <- @a_Ferk track him tonight please

Tracker = a_ferk - since he called out eagles not being veteran, and knowing nyko healed barzal, I think ferk and nyko are both town, along with Barzal

[Spartan 4,531]

Just now, osens said:

tbh you changed your vote at one moment from flex to nyko, but I don't think you are tt 

that was the brief flip when I needed a nap lol, instantly switched back to flex very shortly after

[BarzalGoat 728]

4 minutes ago, a_Ferk said:

Nyko actually did visit you last night, due to my results.

Wait are you also a lookout ?

[eaglesfan036 4,605]

1 minute ago, Spartan said:

@OrbitingDeath I'm not jailing you, but you need to revive the transporter tonight. 

 

For TI claims, we have:

LO = Barzal

LO = Hatty (potentially TT)

Invest = Doom (possibly consig)

Sheriff = Z16 (also maf? idk if a LO has actually seen him visit) <- @a_Ferk track him tonight please

Tracker = a_ferk - since he called out eagles not being veteran, and knowing nyko healed barzal, I think ferk and nyko are both town, along with Barzal

Why are you more convinced of Barzal than Jhatty? Jhatty also called me out for visiting you when I claimed vet

[Spartan 4,531]

Just now, eaglesfan036 said:

Why are you more convinced of Barzal than Jhatty? Jhatty also called me out for visiting you when I claimed vet

for the fact he was attacked and healed by nyko, who was tracked by ferk. I trust hatty as well, but others just seem to be a little more proven?

 

I'm leaning more towards Z16 and Doom being fake though. But since they're in the plan I set earlier, I don't want to be jailing any of them.

[BarzalGoat 728]

Especially bc TT doesn't seem to be a killing role, I think we can just worry about maf first and then look for the TT whoever it may be.... I tend to think jhatty is legit, I'm a little perplexed by both Doomsday & Z16, they haven't gotten any useful info yet this game

[eaglesfan036 4,605]

1 minute ago, Spartan said:

for the fact he was attacked and healed by nyko, who was tracked by ferk. I trust hatty as well, but others just seem to be a little more proven?

 

I'm leaning more towards Z16 and Doom being fake though. But since they're in the plan I set earlier, I don't want to be jailing any of them.

that's a good point, I think Barzal is lookout now too because of that (assuming he wasn't lying about being attacked). Like for example, perhaps Berocka is an afk godfather or something lol. But yea Barzal is most likely lookout.

 

Also, It isn't a 100% guarantee that OMG is a survivor. He survived the serial killer attack which means he is either survivor or godfather. Doomsday gave him survivor results, but if Doomsday winds up being evil that shines the light on OMG as well. If he is gf then it would make sense for him to come up inno to the sheriff too. 

[Spartan 4,531]

1 minute ago, BarzalGoat said:

Especially bc TT doesn't seem to be a killing role, I think we can just worry about maf first and then look for the TT whoever it may be.... I tend to think jhatty is legit, I'm a little perplexed by both Doomsday & Z16, they haven't gotten any useful info yet this game

Yeah, I think I'll be jailing one of the two tonight, we'll see. @jhatty8 feel free to not be on Z16 tonight. Go where you please, I'll let you use your judgement. If mafia go for Z, then at least a TI will get narrowed down. 

[Spartan 4,531]

1 minute ago, eaglesfan036 said:

that's a good point, I think Barzal is lookout now too because of that (assuming he wasn't lying about being attacked). Like for example, perhaps Berocka is an afk godfather or something lol. But yea Barzal is most likely lookout.

 

Also, It isn't a 100% guarantee that OMG is a survivor. He survived the serial killer attack which means he is either survivor or godfather. Doomsday gave him survivor results, but if Doomsday winds up being evil that shines the light on OMG as well. If he is gf then it would make sense for him to come up inno to the sheriff too. 

That's actually very true, I didn't think of it that way. In that case, @a_Ferk can you track omg tonight? Mafioso is dead, technically OMG should be the only one who can kill tonight.

[Spartan 4,531]

That would actually open up the Any role to another town member, which could explain the extra TP, and TS

[Devise 4,475]

The reason I suspect Eagles is because of what Mike told me. While not always right on his hunches, he has been at times. On top of that it's Eagles, and much like he is in every game he plays in he has a lot of sway and influence over the votes. I think it's more likely Eagles is MAF than TT though. 

 

As for Spartan, when I had a conversation when I was jailed by him I had to actually "confirm" it was him at first because of how the Discord set it up. That gave us a very awkward start to our conversation, and at one point he clarified "although I could be town traitor" and the context by which it occurred as well as the general situation of it made me suspicious of him as TT. As Spartan may attest, I brought as such up in the conversation then. 

 

But the bigger reason I'm suspicious was how I was responded to when I claimed Mike wasn't around on the Discord that much, before he finally gave me a response. It floats with an overall strategy that I am seeing, which is isolate those who are less active and force claims. I totally get the meta of quiet players look suspicious. But Mike died and didn't come on the Discord until well after. We've had claims in previous games be accurate even after someone has showed up late. You know what's a good way to look great as a TT or a hidden MAF? Be a vocal active leader on town and then put pressure on anyone (including town) who is inactive to try to get claims. This allows tons of counter claims to come up as a response and let's the MAF hide in plain site as much as possible.

 

I also think defenses of "but why would I get rid of X role" when we've only killed one Mafia roll and two neutrals by my count (Witch/SK and then the Maifoso right?) Neutral isn't Mafia, sure they can work together but it's not like a TT especially if it was Jailor to just out themselves by never working with town. There is enough claims out there now that if Berocka winds up in innocent it's real easy for Jailor and Eagles to claim innocence because of all the counter claims. Don't get fooled into thinking activity in here always means town and vice versa. Especially with a TT in play. Either way you guys have the votes so if you want it Berocka is going, and if he's not town then that can put some of my concerns with you two at ease for now. 

 

[Devise 4,475]

I'd also like to note I don't really give credit to Jailor or anyone really for some of our kills. The first one was a great guess (although if your TT it's easy to guess isn't it, great cover too) while as Hatter himself admitted that he played a shitty game and basically exposed himself in the death Discord. When your looking for easy cover targets as a TT it doesn't get much easier than that. 

 

And if you really want to beat the whole "while why isn't X as active as Y" horn if they are town, remember lots of folks who play with us are also newer to the game. How many folks come in and go "I don't want to read this I'll just go with the majority" so don't make it out like everyone is perfect playing roles and any instance of a slip up has to be because they are lying about their role. This is how players like Eagles have generally fooled people in many games before. Pressure activity, find examples of his loyalty to prove and isolate the weaker/less active players. Because I for now trust the Jailor a bit more than Eagles in general this is my vote and I'm not changing it.

 

Vote Eagles

 

 

[Devise 4,475]

Sorry I just Hatter above when I meant to say Ricer. Hatter was just being salty after his death because he couldn't really say much in the server and didn't want to help out Town as the SK. 

[omgitshim 903]

 

1 hour ago, osens said:

Berocka has been really quiet...

 

He's in Australia I believe so he's probably been asleep. He should pop in soon enough.

 

15 minutes ago, eaglesfan036 said:

that's a good point, I think Barzal is lookout now too because of that (assuming he wasn't lying about being attacked). Like for example, perhaps Berocka is an afk godfather or something lol. But yea Barzal is most likely lookout.

 

Also, It isn't a 100% guarantee that OMG is a survivor. He survived the serial killer attack which means he is either survivor or godfather. Doomsday gave him survivor results, but if Doomsday winds up being evil that shines the light on OMG as well. If he is gf then it would make sense for him to come up inno to the sheriff too. 

 

With Mafioso dead you can track me to confirm that I don't go anywhere.

[Spartan 4,531]

1 minute ago, Devise said:

The reason I suspect Eagles is because of what Mike told me. While not always right on his hunches, he has been at times. On top of that it's Eagles, and much like he is in every game he plays in he has a lot of sway and influence over the votes. I think it's more likely Eagles is MAF than TT though. 

 

As for Spartan, when I had a conversation when I was jailed by him I had to actually "confirm" it was him at first because of how the Discord set it up. That gave us a very awkward start to our conversation, and at one point he clarified "although I could be town traitor" and the context by which it occurred as well as the general situation of it made me suspicious of him as TT. As Spartan may attest, I brought as such up in the conversation then. 

 

But the bigger reason I'm suspicious was how I was responded to when I claimed Mike wasn't around on the Discord that much, before he finally gave me a response. It floats with an overall strategy that I am seeing, which is isolate those who are less active and force claims. I totally get the meta of quiet players look suspicious. But Mike died and didn't come on the Discord until well after. We've had claims in previous games be accurate even after someone has showed up late. You know what's a good way to look great as a TT or a hidden MAF? Be a vocal active leader on town and then put pressure on anyone (including town) who is inactive to try to get claims. This allows tons of counter claims to come up as a response and let's the MAF hide in plain site as much as possible.

 

I also think defenses of "but why would I get rid of X role" when we've only killed one Mafia roll and two neutrals by my count (Witch/SK and then the Maifoso right?) Neutral isn't Mafia, sure they can work together but it's not like a TT especially if it was Jailor to just out themselves by never working with town. There is enough claims out there now that if Berocka winds up in innocent it's real easy for Jailor and Eagles to claim innocence because of all the counter claims. Don't get fooled into thinking activity in here always means town and vice versa. Especially with a TT in play. Either way you guys have the votes so if you want it Berocka is going, and if he's not town then that can put some of my concerns with you two at ease for now. 

 

Breaking this down a little, by paragraph:

1. Eagles is not the primary person I am listening to, and if you look back, I have told him that he needs to go along with what I say or risk getting executed. 

 

2. Yes, I mentioned that "I could be town traitor" in a conversation about the TT game style. Here's the exchange

   Devise: "Who is this btw? Is that allowed?
   Spart: "well, it's Spartan lol. yeah, I've claimed so I have nothing to hide"

   Devise: "I figured since you claimed Jailor but just wanted to make sure.

   Spart: "I wish Gustav would just let me use my regular [Discord] account smh"

   Devise: "Eh, with traitor in the game, I suppose it's part of the act"

   Spart: "well, I could technically still be traitor. I'd still have all the powers of jailor"

   Devise: "true"

   Spart: "just focused on killing town, so not dependent on person really"

 

3. That is exactly the overall strategy, because people who are vocal and claim early are at a higher risk of getting exposed if they misclaim or get called out. People who are inactive and quiet are typically either a very important role, or an evil. The game where I almost won as mafia was when I didn't claim until the very last day with 3 people alive. That is just simply the way ToS goes, from my experience.

 

4. Each evil faction has to win on its own, except Witch and Mafia who work together. If Berocka comes up innocent, that's his own fault for not claiming anything at all. There is no counter claim to leverage since he has no claim.

[Spartan 4,531]

3 minutes ago, Devise said:

And if you really want to beat the whole "while why isn't X as active as Y" horn if they are town, remember lots of folks who play with us are also newer to the game. How many folks come in and go "I don't want to read this I'll just go with the majority" so don't make it out like everyone is perfect playing roles and any instance of a slip up has to be because they are lying about their role. This is how players like Eagles have generally fooled people in many games before. Pressure activity, find examples of his loyalty to prove and isolate the weaker/less active players. Because I for now trust the Jailor a bit more than Eagles in general this is my vote and I'm not changing it.

 

Vote Eagles

The entire way we handled Nyko and his late claim, as well as OD's late retri claim should show that this is absolutely not the case. We give everyone plenty of chances to prove themselves, and we've been tagging people in detailed posts to ask for claims and to plan around people. Why would I have set up a network of protection and info if not to actually help the town???

[omgitshim 903]

4 minutes ago, Devise said:

I'd also like to note I don't really give credit to Jailor or anyone really for some of our kills. The first one was a great guess (although if your TT it's easy to guess isn't it, great cover too) while as Hatter himself admitted that he played a shitty game and basically exposed himself in the death Discord. When your looking for easy cover targets as a TT it doesn't get much easier than that. 

 

And if you really want to beat the whole "while why isn't X as active as Y" horn if they are town, remember lots of folks who play with us are also newer to the game. How many folks come in and go "I don't want to read this I'll just go with the majority" so don't make it out like everyone is perfect playing roles and any instance of a slip up has to be because they are lying about their role. This is how players like Eagles have generally fooled people in many games before. Pressure activity, find examples of his loyalty to prove and isolate the weaker/less active players. Because I for now trust the Jailor a bit more than Eagles in general this is my vote and I'm not changing it.

 

Vote Eagles

 

 

 

For now there's no reason to suspect Spartan. He exe'd the Witch (which tbh even if he is TT he had to do after Maf sold him out) and he supported lynching the Mafioso.

 

Eagles is a very good player. He could be Doc, Maf, or TT. He's definitely earned a reputation for being untrustworthy.

 

The thing with inactivity (and admittedly it's something that I forget sometimes too): it's not necessarily about singling out people who are being quiet/inactive, it's about recognizing who is being more quiet than usual. Like last game a lot of people were calling me out as being quieter than usual even though I was still more active than other people (and really I don't think I was much quieter than normal, just Maf knew I was Jugg so they were trying to push me). Guys like Nyko and Berocka are usually pretty quiet in general so they'll get a little more leeway than if like Eagles or Mike ended up saying nothing all day. There's still a point where you have to be involved, especially now that it's day 4, but a new player or someone who is often less active is not as suspicious being quiet than someone who is usually active.

[Devise 4,475]

2 minutes ago, Spartan said:

3. That is exactly the overall strategy, because people who are vocal and claim early are at a higher risk of getting exposed if they misclaim or get called out. People who are inactive and quiet are typically either a very important role, or an evil. The game where I almost won as mafia was when I didn't claim until the very last day with 3 people alive. That is just simply the way ToS goes, from my experience.

 

That is the overall strategy when your playing with everyone who knows round about what they are doing. Go back and look through our game history on the league, we have a bunch of examples of quiet players being town and misplaying. Sure it's that players own fault, but if I were town traitor I can tell you right now my number one goal would be to target town players whose fault for getting lynched could be pinned on themselves, really great cover. Suggesting any evidence of someone going against said meta in that environment without question, especially since we've been doing that every day makes me more suspicious. I'd also argue the players who know exactly how the meta should be played have a key advantage, not only can they leverage the rest of the town like you are doing right now (and Eagles does every game) by explaining and holding up accounts of the meta while rarely being challenged. That lack of a challenge comes just as much from trust at times as it does a lack of understanding. Legit actual town misplay the game and just go with the flow of the most knowledgeable players a lot in our games, from my standpoint. Which means to me, if I were a knowledgeable player and a TT? Easy hiding spot. 

 

4 minutes ago, Spartan said:

The entire way we handled Nyko and his late claim, as well as OD's late retri claim should show that this is absolutely not the case. We give everyone plenty of chances to prove themselves, and we've been tagging people in detailed posts to ask for claims and to plan around people. Why would I have set up a network of protection and info if not to actually help the town???

 

What? Again, what does setting up a network of protection and info exclusively prove your town? Am I to assume as a TT you'd just out the gate "go evil?" If your controlling the network and flow of information, and all the trust is being placed on you to not be lying. Like Eagles said if jailor is TT your pretty much screwed anyways, but I don't know I feel like my suspicions are justified. Even if some of that is built upon Mike and he's also often a crazy hunch guy in these games but he pretty much indicated that he feels town is playing very dumb right now, which to me raises red flags about the control of that information. Mafia has been quiet at night just enough to suggest to me that TT is a key role and is slow playing something with MAF. If I suspect Eagles as MAF I look right to you as TT. Hell it would even stun me if your the MAF and Eagles is Jailor TT and you've been coordinating actions and sharing the chat dialogues from jail sessions in the MAF discord. 

 

It just doesn't feel to me like town is as in control of the situation as it looks on paper. Ya'll can take that for what you will and do what you want with it. I'll keep gathering info as I can for as long as I can. 

[Devise 4,475]

Just now, omgitshim said:

 

For now there's no reason to suspect Spartan. He exe'd the Witch (which tbh even if he is TT he had to do after Maf sold him out) and he supported lynching the Mafioso.

 

Eagles is a very good player. He could be Doc, Maf, or TT. He's definitely earned a reputation for being untrustworthy.

 

The thing with inactivity (and admittedly it's something that I forget sometimes too): it's not necessarily about singling out people who are being quiet/inactive, it's about recognizing who is being more quiet than usual. Like last game a lot of people were calling me out as being quieter than usual even though I was still more active than other people (and really I don't think I was much quieter than normal, just Maf knew I was Jugg so they were trying to push me). Guys like Nyko and Berocka are usually pretty quiet in general so they'll get a little more leeway than if like Eagles or Mike ended up saying nothing all day. There's still a point where you have to be involved, especially now that it's day 4, but a new player or someone who is often less active is not as suspicious being quiet than someone who is usually active.

 

I'm not saying there isn't a point where you have to be involved, obviously. I just think it's not just focused on targeting inactivity but also targeting mistakes. Mike was legit the transporter. This is despite missing his night action claim (a mistake) and then he did not log into the death Discord for like a day until after he died and barely gave town any info off the bat, even called us out for stupid play. None of that is ideal play, based on the strategies we have been employing information like that would be treated as suspect here. Yet Mike was still legit town. To me it seems more likely we have incompetent town (myself included in that, obviously) than that every red flag of activity is suspicious enough to warrant our immediate focus. 

[Spartan 4,531]

5 minutes ago, Devise said:

 

That is the overall strategy when your playing with everyone who knows round about what they are doing. Go back and look through our game history on the league, we have a bunch of examples of quiet players being town and misplaying. Sure it's that players own fault, but if I were town traitor I can tell you right now my number one goal would be to target town players whose fault for getting lynched could be pinned on themselves, really great cover. Suggesting any evidence of someone going against said meta in that environment without question, especially since we've been doing that every day makes me more suspicious. I'd also argue the players who know exactly how the meta should be played have a key advantage, not only can they leverage the rest of the town like you are doing right now (and Eagles does every game) by explaining and holding up accounts of the meta while rarely being challenged. That lack of a challenge comes just as much from trust at times as it does a lack of understanding. Legit actual town misplay the game and just go with the flow of the most knowledgeable players a lot in our games, from my standpoint. Which means to me, if I were a knowledgeable player and a TT? Easy hiding spot. 

----

What? Again, what does setting up a network of protection and info exclusively prove your town? Am I to assume as a TT you'd just out the gate "go evil?" If your controlling the network and flow of information, and all the trust is being placed on you to not be lying. Like Eagles said if jailor is TT your pretty much screwed anyways, but I don't know I feel like my suspicions are justified. Even if some of that is built upon Mike and he's also often a crazy hunch guy in these games but he pretty much indicated that he feels town is playing very dumb right now, which to me raises red flags about the control of that information. Mafia has been quiet at night just enough to suggest to me that TT is a key role and is slow playing something with MAF. If I suspect Eagles as MAF I look right to you as TT. Hell it would even stun me if your the MAF and Eagles is Jailor TT and you've been coordinating actions and sharing the chat dialogues from jail sessions in the MAF discord. 

 

It just doesn't feel to me like town is as in control of the situation as it looks on paper. Ya'll can take that for what you will and do what you want with it. I'll keep gathering info as I can for as long as I can. 

It's the overall strategy for ToS in general, regardless of skill or ELO (in ranked games). There are plenty of people here who have played ToS with me or with others, and they can all agree. I still can't believe that you're this adamant about ME being the TT. There has been absolutely no action that I've made so far that could pin me as the TT, especially having lynched the Witch who I would win with, and not reversing from Flex.

 

A network of protection isn't in my hands, and I'm down to letting someone else do it. If anyone else wants to coordinate how the TP's and TI's act tonight, be my guest. It's not exclusive to me. Your pushback against someone who has helped the town this much in terms of organization is making you a prime suspect as TT or Maf.

[Devise 4,475]

1 minute ago, Spartan said:

It's the overall strategy for ToS in general, regardless of skill or ELO (in ranked games). There are plenty of people here who have played ToS with me or with others, and they can all agree. I still can't believe that you're this adamant about ME being the TT. There has been absolutely no action that I've made so far that could pin me as the TT, especially having lynched the Witch who I would win with, and not reversing from Flex.

 

A network of protection isn't in my hands, and I'm down to letting someone else do it. If anyone else wants to coordinate how the TP's and TI's act tonight, be my guest. It's not exclusive to me. Your pushback against someone who has helped the town this much in terms of organization is making you a prime suspect as TT or Maf.

 

So lynch me then. 

[Spartan 4,531]

2 minutes ago, Devise said:

I'm not saying there isn't a point where you have to be involved, obviously. I just think it's not just focused on targeting inactivity but also targeting mistakes. Mike was legit the transporter. This is despite missing his night action claim (a mistake) and then he did not log into the death Discord for like a day until after he died and barely gave town any info off the bat, even called us out for stupid play. None of that is ideal play, based on the strategies we have been employing information like that would be treated as suspect here. Yet Mike was still legit town. To me it seems more likely we have incompetent town (myself included in that, obviously) than that every red flag of activity is suspicious enough to warrant our immediate focus. 

So....this is the real stupid play here, right? Like, it's unfortunate that Gus started up the game early, but he gave us warning on it.

 

In addition, you said that Mike tapped out of the game. If that's the case, how has he been commenting on dumb town play if he hasn't been involved. If he really read all those pages of information yesterday, most of which began in the morning, and had these extravagant thoughts regarding how town has been playing, you would have a lot more than a handful of messages from him to share.

[Spartan 4,531]

1 minute ago, Devise said:

So lynch me then. 

Not helping your case. If you're town, there is a much better way to handle this than off the hunch of a dude who died N2 and didn't submit an action, and that's to try to wait and provide information as we discussed. There is 1 town member dead, and he wasn't even a TI. "Hunches" and wild accusations aren't going to help anyone man