Victor

Week 2 of 3

Not in the VHL that I recall but plenty in the VHLM, some which you guys have enforced quite recently.

Yeah fair enough you're on the list (you're not because I can't be bothered to edit it but you are in my heart x) Hmmm yeah I'm gonna blame your changing usernames for that omission. Even though it's pretty consistently Streetlight on the list so

We are so back

I mean no. Also what 5 have you done?

This is actually slightly silly timing to write this because 1) Ryan Artyomov has a higher save percentage at a ridiculous .954 through 4 games and 2) the season has barely started. But we can safely assume Artyomov's numbers will fall off while Olober Syko will definitely be facing a lot of shots on Warsaw and is one of the best goalies to play for a unquestionably bad team, ever. The result is a .943 save percentage through 6 games (just 1 win) and I predict this sort of pace will be maintained. That is how the all-time record was set in the first place. Anton Nygard was the Vasteras GM's player in S9 and while the rest of the team was sold off, Nygard – one of the league's best goaltenders – remained until being shipped off in S10. In the one season of backstopping a load of nobodies, Nygard set a .949 mark and no one has really come close since. That's despite that being an era of high shot totals itself and us seeing two more spikes in 1) the highly polarised 50s and 2) the first hybrid decade of overpowered goalies. Rhett DeGrath and Greg Clegane exceeded the .940 mark in the 50s, while a number of goalies landed between .935 and .939 more recently before the tweak to reduce those. So can Syko ride the perfect storm to set a modern day record and maybe even challenge Nygard's all-time mark? It's one to watch in S96.

We are all familiar with the single-franchise records set by Seattle's Blake Campbell and Riga's Benjamin Zeptenbergs but their loyalty has meant they have largely been tied to the same two franchises. Apart from the Bears and the Reign, the duo only managed one other franchise each – the VHLM's Bratislava Watchmen. By contrast, some of the GMs in the league's history have bounced around multiple VHL franchises, had several stints with the same team, often decades apart, and dabbled in both the VHLM and VHLE. Below is every single GM to have gone at at least 5 separate GM stints over the years. Zack Gagnon - 11 @InstantRockstar VHL (2): S24-S25 Riga, S83-present Los Angeles VHLE (1): S80-S82 Rome VHLM (8): S21-S22 Kolari, S24 Oslo, S31-S35 Bern, S38-S42 Minot, S43-S45 Ottawa, S61 Las Vegas, S66-S76 San Diego, S77-S79 Miami Started off as GM during his first VHL career as Zack Gagnon, rising quickly through the ranks to take over the embattled Riga Reign before facing player revolt and public criticism and stepping down after less than 2 seasons. Gagnon then resumed making his name in the VHLM, which he did while managing probably his most successful player to date, S32 playoff MVP Radislav Mjers. Gagnon then entered five players from the S46 to the S56 drafts, none of whom got much further than 100 TPE – this was also the period of his GM hiatus. The modern era for Gagnon began in S66, one season into Denver Wolfe's career, and has included an almost uninterrupted steady rise through the VHLM to the VHLE with Rome and finally the dream role in charge of LA which he holds to this day. Joey Kendrick – 9 @Kendrick VHL (3): S1-S2 Seattle, S17-S22 Helsinki, S31-S36 Cologne VHLM (6): S2 Fresno, S9-S11 Gothenburg, S14-S16 Brampton, S19 Kolari, S39-S41 Saskatoon, S55 Ottawa Much of Kendrick's VHLM involvement came from his roles at the VHL parent organisation during the affiliation era in the minor league from S2 to S20. He co-managed Seattle and Fresno in S2 and helped his GMs in Riga and Toronto by overseeing VHLM operations in Gothenburg and Brampton whilst Torsten Schwarz and Malcolm Kelly suited up for the Reign and Legion respectively. Shortly after becoming Helsinki GM, Kendrick spent a season also GMing Kolari in the last season of the affiliation system in S19. He did dabble in the minor leagues again in their current guise towards the end of his original run in the league. Despite bringing a few players into the league since S55 there has been no sign a return to management is forthcoming. Chris Miller – 8 @Advantage VHL (4): S33-S46 New York, S50-S55 Stockholm, S56-S57 Cologne, S66-S70 Malmo VHLE (1): S80 Cologne VHLM (3): S20 Kolari, S28-S32 Kolari, S77-S79 Mexico City Best known for his time in the “old” VHL, Chris Miller was particularly well respected for his tenure in charge of New York, leading that franchise through their greatest ever successes. He also tried his best to get Stockholm an elusive Continental Cup in the early 50s. Modern audiences will know him as the founding GM of Malmo and first GM of the resurrected Cologne in the VHLE (having been the last GM of the VHL version). Generally Miller has GMed in all of his stints in the VHL in some capacity so interestingly he has not yet picked up a role in his current comeback – perhaps his GMing run ends here? Frank Chadwick – 7 @Frank VHL (4): S24-S26 Davos, S37-S40 Quebec, S51-S58 Quebec, S84-present Vancouver VHLM (3): S28-S31 Vasteras, S42 Ottawa, S82-S83 San Diego Frank has been around for so long it's easy to lose track of all his roles. He's most associated with the Quebec/Vancouver franchise where he is currently in charge for the third time and is probably indisputably the organisation's greatest ever GM, with 2 Continental Cups to show for his efforts. Less remembered is his very first GM stint, as the third GM of the S19-S25 Kanou/Brekker Davos dynasty, leading the team which featured as many as 7 future Hall of Famers to back-to-back championships. He also broke the VHLM Vasteras' Founder's Cup drought in S28 and had a couple other appearances in the VHLM to bulk up his CV. Tyler Barabash – 6 @Bushito VHL (3): S27-S31 Davos, S38-S43 Seattle, S56-S57 Stockholm-S58-S72 Calgary VHLM (3): S20 Brampton, S35-S37 Bern, S53-S55 Oslo The man, the myth, the legend. Barabash was never the most loved GM in the VHL and his first two stints in the big leagues ended with him going inactive and the interim GM winning the cup that very season. Perhaps that was a sign of good team-building but not being able to see it through, but an inability to keep locker rooms satisfied continued even during a vindicating reign with Calgary. Barabash left the Wranglers under a cloud and has not been seen since. His numbers are bulked up by short VHLM tenures primarily used as a springboard for a VHL role. Greg Harbinson – 6 @gregreg VHL (3): S20-S28 Seattle, S34-S37 Seattle, S45-S54 Cologne VHLM (3): S17 Saskatoon, S30 Syracuse, S31 Oslo Before Bana, Greg was the man associated with Seattle, having been in charge of the franchise on two separate occasions, most impressively during the “Seattle Six” era which captured the S28 Continental Cup (until the late 60s/early 70s dynasty this was the most recent run of sustained success for the Bears). Harbinson also dabbled in the VHLM, albeit always in very short-term bursts, before trying his hand at turning around the fortunes of the Cologne Express but bowing out with just one finals appearance – the franchise's last. Vince Wong – 6 @STZ VHL (3): S37-S41 Helsinki, S56-S60 New York, S92-present New York VHLM (3): S31-S36 Bratislava, S44-S45 Bern, S90-S91 Houston Another old-timer in the line of those who have made multiple stops in the same organisation. Wong's current challenge is restoring New York's fortunes to at least the level they were at during his first stint, and ideally to the franchise's glory days which preceded that. He does however have history with other teams as well, being the founding GM of the Bratislava Watchmen and kicking off their run of VHLM success. That led to promotion to Helsinki where his first-gen, Ethan Osborne, made his name. Upon his most recent return, Wong also made a quick impression in the VHLM much like many of the other old names who resurfaced and wanted to prove themselves again. Zach Arce – 6 @Arce VHL (1): S14-S18 Vasteras/Madrid VHLE (1): S84-S86 Vasteras VHLM (4): S10-S13 Toledo, S14-S16 Vasteras, S83 Houston, S88-S91 San Diego Arce has the unique distinction of having managed Vasteras in three different leagues, all made possible by one of most unexpected comebacks to the VHL after some 60 seasons away. He's also been a GM of both of the league's Spanish franchises having earned his stripes in charge of Davos' VHLM affiliate Toledo while Arce the player was embarking on a Hall of Fame career in Dynamo colours. Madrid probably should have won the cup with Arce in charge and history would have been different but instead they ended up back in Vasteras in S21. Toledo had moved to Bern by that point. In his comeback Arce actually spent more time in the VHLM and earning a good reputation as a development GM in the process. Jason Glasser - 5 @diamond_ace VHL (2): S26-S41 Calgary, S68-S80 Prague VHLM (3): S20-S25 Ottawa, S43-S45 Oslo, S59-S64 Ottawa Victor Alfredsson - 5 VHL (3): S15-S16 New York, S34-S38 Davos, S65-S76 Moscow VHLM (2): S14 Ottawa, S49-S50 Yukon Ryan Power – 5 @Devise VHL (4): S30-S32 New York, S42-S44 Cologne, S51-S55 New York, S63-S69 Toronto VHLM (1): S27-S29 Brampton Brett Slobodzian – 5 VHL (2): S1-S2 Calgary, S23-S24 Helsinki VHLM (3): S2 Minot, S8 Gothenburg, S37-S38 Saskatoon Davey Jones – 5 @Da Trifecta VHLM (5): S36-S37 Minot, S41-S42 Turku, S43 Bratislava, S51-S52 Bern, S63 Oslo Shawn Howard – 5 @TheLastOlympian07 VHLM (5): S18-S19 Gothenburg/Oslo, S44-S49 Moscow, S50-S52 Oslo, S54 Saskatoon, S57-S58 Yukon Mickey Dickson – 5 @samx VHL (1): S90-S95 Helsinki VHLE (1): S81 Geneva VHLM (3): S79-S80 Halifax, S82-S84 Halifax, S89 Mexico City The rest of the list is made up of those with 5 GM tenures so I won't dwell much further on this as there's only so many ways to say the same things over and over again. We have three people no one will be surprised to see on the list (diamond_ace, Devise, and yours truly), and an ancient name in Slobodzian who actually has very few seasons of GMing, but a surprisingly high number of separate tenures. It's quite interesting to see two on-and-off members who have appeared and disappeared many times over 90 seasons in Shawn Howard and Davey Jones, and fittingly they have only managed at the VHLM level, never convincing the powers that be that they will stick around long enough for a VHL GM role. And finally we have one member of what I would call the modern, post-S60 generation in Sam, with some leeway on the Halifax/Geneva/Halifax situation which may have inflated the number overall. I'm sure some of Sam's contemporaries will be joining the list in due course.

Praque Phantqms

DA BEARZ

You're just constantly chasing trends mate while I'm setting them

Time to break into London folks

Ok Doomsday - @jacobcarson877 Fresco - up for grabs Summers - @jacobcarson877 Bouchard - up for grabs

I didn't put higher than a 6 for anything because none of those awards guarantees an induction on its own. There were many I happily put down as irrelevant though.

Yeah this is ultimately the main thing. This is the problem with using Gus as your main source of information though, that was never really a consideration. Anyway here's a snip from the BOG last year when we started discussing removing the E, so you can see where he and I stand on this (I'm responding to Gus here). The higher cap VHLM we have brought in basically does what I wanted.

I mean you've just got your information from the most biased source possible on the subject. I mean it's been a while but I don't recall suggesting anything other than what it became.

Summers was MVP twice afterwards. Teno playoff MVP maybe after. I mean even ignoring them, the cup was won by a top 5 goalies in TPA. Yeah Toronto did the long respected VHL tradition of goals > goalies but a) lost and b) just traded for the best performing goalie last season (again top 5 in TPA). You probably would have ended up on a contender again by S97 if not sooner. Even Summers had a gap between Davos and Warsaw where he was stuck on a rebuilding Davos.

We're 1 or 2 Summers/Teno type careers away from this all being an overreaction.

Asia!

More of a shot than Calaway tbh What if I offered you.... neither?

RIP E

Quik and I once had a brief conversation about defencemen being underappreciated in the VHL. It would have been at some point around S63 or S64 when he was assessing the legacy of Mats Johnsson, and although Johnsson, as the clear best defenceman of his generation, had no issue getting inducted into the Hall of Fame, there was a point to be made about the position being under-represented in the Hall overall. Purely based on the proportion of players on a VHL team, you'd expect around 50% of inductees to be forwards, 30-35% to be defencemen, and the rest goaltenders. At the time of this conversation, the split was 66/27/19, massively skewed towards forwards with goalies a lot closer to defencemen than you'd expect. It was also true that unlike goalies, defencemen hardly ever featured in MVP conversations (getting a bit more, but not frequent, love in the playoffs) and with the Sterling Labatte Trophy only just having been split up, they spent most of VHL history fighting it out for one award per season (and a decent chance at leading the league in assists). The tide has turned in the last 30 seasons. As mentioned, the Labatte was split into two, then quickly reinstated alongside the Valiq and Wylde Trophies, meaning defencemen now compete for three of their own trophies every season. Even if 2 and sometimes all 3 awards go to the same player, it is still added recognition, and further accolades are available in the form of All-VHL teams, introduced in S62, meaning you don't have to be the absolute best in a given season to make it into the history books. Including Johnsson, 20 defencemen (21 including Pierre Emile Bouchard) have been inducted into the Hall of Fame since then, nearly doubling their amount, compared to just 8 goaltenders (9 with Lachlan Summers) and 24 forwards, a much more even ratio. The ballot after the upcoming HOF induction will have 6 players, half of whom are defencemen, and they will be an outright majority with Skor McFleury's addition next season. Tellingly the competition is in the form of Beketov's latest goalie stuck in HOF purgatory, Papa Emeritus, and two of the nine-season career flagbearers, Nico Pearce and The Frenchman, making it very possible the next two players inducted are also blue-liners. We've gone back in time to induct Voittu Jannula who retired in S21 (and to a lesser extent Erik Killinger who had to wait about a decade), as well as inducting defencemen with very few individual accolades like Matty Socks and Hulk Hogan. Although the recognition of consistency is admirable, it's a luxury rarely afforded to forwards or especially goaltenders, who generally have to be at the peak of their position to have a chance at the Hall. So have we now gone too far to the other extreme? Of course, there's still only been one defenceman to be crowned MVP (Alex Letang) in the last 30 seasons and just three Brett Slobodzian Trophy winners (Smitty Werbenjagermanjensen, Condor Adrienne, and Brian Kowalski). There's been a recent spike in Kanou Trophy winners with four since S86 but it's still a trophy historically dominated by goaltenders. However, in terms of eternal recognition in the form of a Hall of Fame induction, defencemen increasingly have the league in a chokehold. The increase in trophies available has certainly helped, as has the less volatile competition at the top end, where 2-4 big names tend to feature prominently for 4-5 seasons at a time. Forwards' careers have tended to fluctuate more and more in the increased parity of the league, meaning players often end up with "just" a Brooks or Szatkowski Trophy to their name. While you could argue there are more trophies on offer to forwards like the Scott Boulet, that is often dominated by one player for several seasons at a time, and consistent runner-ups usually get forgotten. Perhaps it's time to recalibrate what it means to be a Hall of Fame forward in the modern, 16-team VHL. Maybe that's true of goalies as well. And perhaps we have been too kind to defencemen in an effort to make up for years of historical injustice. Or maybe we truly have just gone through an all-time great era for defencemen and should cherish it while it lasts.

Daniela Tavau loved herself some Jokinen.

good thread name

F