Should Greenland be on Team World or Team Europe/Team Nordic?

[Zetterberg 863]

This has become quite an interesting discussion with the rise of players from Greenland their are really 3 options that could happen. I'd love to see what most people think should happen so lets go through the options.

Team World/Team World: This argument is basically physical geography trumps politics. Greenland is a giant island in the artic and is closer to Canada then it is any other country. Why should Greenlanders be forced to play for a continent that they have very little to actually do with. Additionally this forum doesn't put Greenland on Team Europe meaning they are defaulted to team World.

Team Europe/Team Nordic: This argument stems from the idea that Greenland is apart of Denmark meaning it should play with Denmark players. "The associated relationship with the EU also means that all citizens of the Realm of Denmark residing in Greenland (Greenlandic nationals) are EU citizens" This essentially means that Greenlanders are technically apart of the EU and should play for Team Europe. As for Team Nordic according to this website Greenland is considered a Nordic country and therefore should play for Team Nordic.

Team World/Team Nordic This is basically combining the beliefs that physical geography trumps politics so Greenland is team World, but then in the WCoH since Greenland is geographically a Nordic country they should play for Team Nordic.

[Grapes-Tophat_Clan- 37]

Team nordic should be it's own thing, with denmark, greenland, norway, sweden, and finland. 

[fromtheinside 1,289]

Greenland should be abolished 

[Hank 67]

Team Canada or America cause it's close to it

[LilHCorny 55]

If we're going based on politics, then because of Brexit wouldn't anyone from the UK be Team World?

[ThePerfectNut 563]

Whover which country owns greenland I guess

[Beketov 8,996]

24 minutes ago, LilHCorny said:

If we're going based on politics, then because of Brexit wouldn't anyone from the UK be Team World?

There’s EU countries in Nordic. Our teams are moreso just groupings that we created to where countries fit best and if they aren’t in any of those specific groupings they go to World.

 

Which is why honestly I say Team world. Sure, Greenland isn’t technically a country but for our purposes there’s no reason to not treat it like one. Therefore without being present in any of the specific team lists we have created it should go under World.

[Beketov 8,996]

The way you ordered the poll makes no sense to me, why include Two teams in each option? I would say it’s Nordic or World, I see no reason to bring Europe into the equation at all. For the reasons I said above, Greenland should be World.

[Zetterberg 863]

10 minutes ago, Beketov said:

The way you ordered the poll makes no sense to me, why include Two teams in each option? I would say it’s Nordic or World, I see no reason to bring Europe into the equation at all. For the reasons I said above, Greenland should be World.

So for the poll my idea was I'd combine Nordic/Europe and Nordic/World votes vs World/World votes to determine what Greenlanders play for in the WCoH. And then I'd compare Nordic/World an World/World votes vs Nordic/Europe votes to determine their WJC team.

As for including Europe a lot of people in the WJC discord claimed that Greenlanders should play for them, so I took their arguments and added it in.

Edited May 12, 2021 by Zetterberg

[rory 1,902]

Don't care about Greenland, what about Puerto Rico, American Samoa, or the North Marina islands? Do they all play for USA?

[Beketov 8,996]

18 minutes ago, rory said:

Don't care about Greenland, what about Puerto Rico, American Samoa, or the North Marina islands? Do they all play for USA?

Again, IMO, World.

 

We aren't here to figure out geo-politics, we're here to sim some fake hockey. We've already laid out what countries go to what teams, if you don't fall under one of those countries you go to World. Yes, Greenland belongs to Denmark and the above belong to the US but for the sake of our conversation it's easier to call them their own countries.

 

Hell there's already precedent that Greenland goes to World; they had 8 players eligible for the World roster in S76. I'm not sure where this discussion is coming from.

[Zetterberg 863]

@Beketov So what I'm hearing from you is Greenland is Team World for the WJC, and the discussion should be World or Nordic for WCoH? Or is their already a decision on WCoH? Because so far no Greenlander has played in the WCoH other then with the mercs.

[Beketov 8,996]

1 minute ago, Zetterberg said:

@Beketov So what I'm hearing from you is Greenland is Team World for the WJC, and the discussion should be World or Nordic for WCoH? Or is their already a decision on WCoH? Because so far no Greenlander has played in the WCoH other then with the mercs.

They have not played for World but they were available per the S76 Eligibility List. Just because World didn't pick any of them doesn't mean they didn't belong to team World.

[Beketov 8,996]

Of note as well, Puerto Rico is also listed as Eligible for Team World.

[Zetterberg 863]

3 minutes ago, Beketov said:

They have not played for World but they were available per the S76 Eligibility List. Just because World didn't pick any of them doesn't mean they didn't belong to team World.

Gotcha, but I do think it's worth discussing since Greenland is a Nordic country regardless of it's affiliations with Denmark. This would be the time to change it since Greenlanders haven't played for either team yet.

[fromtheinside 1,289]

3 minutes ago, Zetterberg said:

Gotcha, but I do think it's worth discussing since Greenland is a Nordic country regardless of it's affiliations with Denmark. This would be the time to change it since Greenlanders haven't played for either team yet.

 

 

this was his whole angle to begin with @Beketov

For the love of god please shut this shit down lol

[Beketov 8,996]

21 minutes ago, Zetterberg said:

Gotcha, but I do think it's worth discussing since Greenland is a Nordic country regardless of it's affiliations with Denmark. This would be the time to change it since Greenlanders haven't played for either team yet.

It does not matter if they haven’t played for either team (also have you gone back and checked every single World Cup to make this claim? I’d be stunned if this batch is the only Greenlanders ever). Precedent exists, we know what countries are part of what WC teams. If you are not part of that list you go to team world, period. This isn’t about who the country belongs to or where they are geographically. It’s straight up what rules have we set in place and those say Greenland = World.

 

Now, could an argument be made that the WC needs to be expanded: potentially. The rise of the Mercs lately does kinda show that there’s a lot of top end talent getting left behind. If such a discussion existed and we decided to add more WC teams then maybe we could re-draw the map but to me, right now, it makes no sense to go against the precedent that already exists.

[Zetterberg 863]

10 minutes ago, fromtheinside said:

 

 

this was his whole angle to begin with @bektov

For the love of god please shut this shit down lol

 

It's a meaningful discussion why would we shut it down, and clearly I'm not the only one who thinks Greenland should be Nordic. All I'm proposing is to re-evaluate Greenland's placement which has a big impact in the WCoH and WJC because like it or not Greenland is producing a lot of players. That was the point of this from the start I didn't reveal a new angle like your implying.

[Jubis 1,343]

Greenland taking over 

[Victor 10,911]

31 minutes ago, Beketov said:

(also have you gone back and checked every single World Cup to make this claim? I’d be stunned if this batch is the only Greenlanders ever)

I've just searched for Greenland in the retired players forum. Not a single result for a pre-portal player so Dawson and Kiak (both S70) were the first Greenlanders in the VHL as far as we know. Which makes sense, why would anyone make their player from Greenland before it became a portal dropdown option? It's not even a country.

 

34 minutes ago, Beketov said:

Precedent exists, we know what countries are part of what WC teams.

Again as I've said before this is nonsense because we've always been fluid with World Cup teams because guess what, these things shift. Remember when we had big enough populations to justify a Team Switzerland and UK (both quite successful too)? Or the fact we've had Europe, Western Europe, Northern Europe, Russia which had some of the European countries and then shifted to World... still including some European countries.

 

But since you're so insistent on relying on precedent, well here we go:

 

Dawson is the only Greenlander to have played in a World Cup and that was on Team Mercenaries. Him, Gyrfalcon, Kiak, and all the new guys (Reinharts etc) are all Team World in the WJC but the WJC doesn't have a Team Nordic. Which then brings you to the other important point of Team Nordic is one of the regions that generally needs help because it has the smallest catchment area.

 

I don't understand why you're being so difficult about this when common sense, the fucking state of Denmark, and the whole history of the World Cup suggest Greenland could very sensibly and most probably should be part of Team Nordic.

[Victor 10,911]

41 minutes ago, Beketov said:

It’s straight up what rules have we set in place and those say Greenland = World.

You didn't set up rules thinking about Greenland btw lmao. Probably because not a single player at the time had ever been from Greenland.

[dlamb 1,326]

30 minutes ago, Victor said:

I've just searched for Greenland in the retired players forum. Not a single result for a pre-portal player so Dawson and Kiak (both S70) were the first Greenlanders in the VHL as far as we know.

Woohoo my article has every player from Greenland confirmed by the VHL historian

[Beketov 8,996]

35 minutes ago, Victor said:

You didn't set up rules thinking about Greenland btw lmao. Probably because not a single player at the time had ever been from Greenland.

I didn’t set any rules, I’m just following the last set that we’ve had which has any country not mentioned as being somewhere else goes to world. I honestly don’t care one way or the other, it just doesn’t make sense to me to re-draw the placements for a single country that has become a meme.

 

By all means though if people want them in Nordic they can be. As a Nordic player I’ll gladly take the extra help. I just find world makes more sense.

[fromtheinside 1,289]

1 hour ago, Beketov said:

I didn’t set any rules, I’m just following the last set that we’ve had which has any country not mentioned as being somewhere else goes to world. I honestly don’t care one way or the other, it just doesn’t make sense to me to re-draw the placements for a single country that has become a meme.

 

By all means though if people want them in Nordic they can be. As a Nordic player I’ll gladly take the extra help. I just find world makes more sense.

 

my thoughts precisely

[Zetterberg 863]

3 minutes ago, fromtheinside said:

 

my thoughts precisely

Meme or not it's still a large group of players, and like Vic said it's just makes sense to put them on Nordic. Plus they have less countries to work with why wouldn't we give Nordic more players.