Sorry Not Sorry

[Horcrux 322]

Over the past few weeks we have seen quite a few people speak up against the VHLE and its operation. Some members blame it for the problems in the VHLM when the problems existed before the VHLE, Some members are against it for personal/player reasons, Some are against it because its the cool thing to do and are hopping on a trend. there is no problem criticizing something in the league IF you come with Evidence, Stats and other statements and proof to back your statements. Otherwise your arguments fall flat. When I decided to criticize the VHLM and its hoarding problem among Gms and certain teams I came with Research, I did my homework, I made sure I knew what I was talking about before giving my statement. 
 

Did everyone agree with my opinion? Hell no and that's okay but what It did do because numbers and stats don't lie, is it opened a healthy discussion about some of the points I made. What I also did was give my opinion on what I think COULD be done to fix it. I didn't just go “VHLM Broke and it sucks” I offered suggestions on how to try to fix it. Most of the arguments I have seen against the VHLE so far have been blaming it for issues that already existed and people saying why they don't like it without actually telling us WHY or their thoughts on how to improve it. 
 

This league as I have seen over the past few months does not handle Change well, or tough questions. This article is not in defence of or against the VHLE it is more so an Opinion Piece of how I see things and how a few members see things. Nothing here matters, I'm not telling anyone to Change anything about the VHLE, I will just give my honest opinion and hopefully after we can have a DISCUSSION about it. I will be saying some things that WILL upset some people but they are not attacks, simply observations. 
 

With that, I went around the league Discord and asked a key member of every Major group here in the League their thoughts. I asked an Admin, a Mod, a BOG member, a VHL GM, a VHLE GM, a VHLM GM, and a few players. Some had varying answers and others had similar responses. These are their words, their opinions, they are unaltered and as they were written. I will post all responses below and give my final opinion. I asked them 3 simple questions, they were answered from their point of view from the position they hold. 
 

Mod @fishy
What is your position on the VHLE:
I don't hold a particularly strong position about the VHLE.

Why do you hold that Position:
The conversation among the board of governors happened long before I joined the board. I can't, by any means, speak for all the mods with this statement, but I generally try to just go with the flow. If the BoG decided that the VHLE was a good idea, cool. Let's test it out for a few seasons, work out the kinks, and use the VHLE as it was intended. Everyone seems to have their own opinions about the VHLE, to which they are entitled, but I personally don't see the issue with just ... trying it. I'm not going to do a deep dive into every argument for and against it and try to detail my thoughts on each portion because that feels like a lot of work I don't want to do. I'm generally just unbothered. Am I exceptionally excited that my player is going to play in the VHLE? not really. But, like, am I exceptionally excited that my player is going to play in the VHL? also not really. Goalies are infamously the worst players to create for user engagement with the sim. I also am just not exceedingly attached to my player–I'm here for the community, not to be upset about which fake league my player is in. At the end of the day, I just try to have a good time with the VHL, and being pissed about the VHLE just doesn't help me do that.

Admin @Beketov
What is your position on the VHLE:
I think it's serving it's intended purpose. That's not to say that it is a 100% ideal solution or that nothing at all could be improved but it was designed to add somewhere for lower TPE players to play while they prepare to be ready to make the jump without simply continuing to expand the VHLM since that creates other issues, namely empty teams if we have a bad recruitment drive. In addition it helps to get those lower TPE players onto actual decent line minutes because otherwise if they found a team at all in the VHL they'd be playing 8 minutes a game and having no fun. So my position is the same now as it was when I suggested the VHLE: it serves a purpose.
 

Why do you hold that Position:
Because it's what makes the most sense for the league as a whole. Ultimately if you look at it purely from an individual perspective and if that perspective includes the mindset that the only objective should be hitting the VHL as fast as possible then I can see the annoyance. However if you take a step back and look at the league as a whole you realize that something needed to be done. We had Free Agents not getting signed because literally no team could take them aside from 4th line minutes, we had teams in both leagues jammed full with nowhere for anyone active to go. We had constant expansion which is fun in theory but will eventually crash and burn as you are adding more and more spots that need to be filled. None of this was sustainable. The best course of action, for the league as a whole, is to offer a middle ground. A place for people who are advanced enough that they don't belong in the VHLM but not so advanced that they belong in the VHL, that is what the VHLE does.
 

If Applicable what would you change:
At this point it's important to remember that we're still in the early stages of it and things are still changing around a lot. Just because we planned for a lot of things doesn't mean a change that large is perfectly flushed out from day 1, it needs to be polished. From what we have gathered in a very short amount of time that polish, in my opinion, would be offering more ability to skip it or at least still attain the full 9 season career. I know that sounds counter-intuitive, how does allowing it to be skipped easier make it better? Simply put we designed the skip around being achievable only to the top earners in a year but I think we may have gone a slight bit too severe with that. We don't want everyone to be able to skip it or it would serve no purpose but maybe instead of the top 1 or 2 we should aim to make top 5 be possible; sorta like how you expect the top 5 NHL draftees to be playing up immediately. It needs a bit more balance to make it feel more achievable without just making it possible for everyone. The other side of that would be keeping it very difficult but adding some other option to gain that 9th season so that even if you play 1 season down you don't "lose out" (despite it never existing before) compared to the top earners. I don't have a way this would work and we may see that the lower starting TPE and higher regression means it evens out anyway but I'm not sure as of yet. That would be my potential change though, make it a bit easier for those who are really against it to have an easier path to skip (though not too easy) or offer a way that they lose out on no years compared to those that manage it

BOG @Doomsday

To me, the VHLE is a perfect stepping stone to the VHL. Generally, a 250 TPE rookie isn't going to be super productive in the VHL, and you'd have a lot of players not update to stay down in the VHLM, taking away spots from new players. But now, you see more players doing everything they can to be VHL-ready as quickly as possible. Now, a rookie is minimum 350 TPE, if not more than 400 TPE. This sets players up to be far more productive right off the bat, and also lets players get a full eight seasons in the VHL if they make it up after one season in the VHLE. And for those that take longer, they'll have a shorter career, but it pushes back regression to the point where they can still have a productive career. 

Another important point for the VHLE is that it is a competitive league, whereas the VHLM was always intended to be a developmental league. Quite a few VHLM GMs saw it as a stepping stone to being a VHL GM, and it took their focus away from developing new members and players. The VHLE, to me, is perfect for members who want to be a VHL GM, as it places them into a competitive environment, whereas being a VHLM GM is an entirely different job altogether. 
 

In all, I think it's a very important part of the league, and I believe it'll be seen that way eventually as well. It will solve several issues that we were really struggling to figure out.

Honestly, it's tough to say. We have one full season so far, so it's tough to make a change right now without it being reactionary. I feel like there's some cosmetic things, like their own section in the Hall of Fame, or getting all eight teams reflected properly on the forums, that could go a long way towards it seeming like less of a stepchild right now.

VHL GM @Ricer13
I am for the VHLE. I think it is a useful tool in this league that benefits many different parties involved. For me as GM it allows members who are earning at a slower rate to spend more time playing competitively on an E team. It prevent players from coming up to the VHL who aren’t ready to play at that level yet. It is also beneficial to the M because the E has a primary focus of being a competitive league so the M can focus even more on the PLAYER RETENTION side of their league that should take precedent 
over anything else.

VHLE GM @FrostBeard
What is your position on the VHLE:
As a GM in VHLE, I believe it is important for me embrace the league no matter what the personal sentiment at the start could have been. The league has grown on me to the point where I can clearly see the benefits of it right now and I stand by the decision of creating a new part of VHL league system. I believe that when something has been created and it has a good intention, we have to work together to make sure it succeeds.
 

If Applicable what would you change:
I wouldn't say there is much to change right now, we are just starting off so everyone is still fighting for cups each season. I would however like to change the resentment towards VHLE from many people in the league, sure, our league is not the greatest and I would have probably found a different way how to deal with Roster problem than just creating a new league, however, I still feel that if the league has been created, we have to work as hard as we can to make sure it works, rather than to put rocks in front so that GMs and Leagues commissioners are destined to trip over them.

VHLM GM (anonymous)
Personally I do think the E serves a purpose and does get players more ice time, with that being said it does not accomplish anything that expanding the VHL and/or VHLM wouldn't have done. As a VHLM GM, the main goal is retention of players, and interacting with new players is something I really enjoy

*I will say after further discussions with people my opinion on the E has changed from "I don't really see a need for it" to more of a "how to make things work best with it"

Member @Daniel Janser
1.+2. I think it is a good tool to transition players into the VHL and also acts as a 'safety valve' for the VHLM. By that I mean, it lets players who are beyond the 'I create a player and never touch the game again'-phase and make space for new players. In my opinion it helps with player retention. I can take on a meaningful role within the VHLE team and can produce/contribute to the teams success, while 'beefing up' for the VHL
 

3. My initial thoughts to not count VHLE years against the ageing has been eloquently and with good reasons turned down by Beketov and Jardy. I do not have a quick solution, but neither do I think that there is something material wrong with the VHLE. Sure it will need tweaking and finetuning as all new projects do
 

There you have some opinions on people from around the league, they in no way speak for EVERYONE but since their is a loud very vocal minority I wanted to present the other side. One through line that I saw and agree with is the VHLM is about Retention, about Teaching, teaching members how to Update, Use the portal, how to get 12 if they want. You need to lead by example, you are the head of the team, if you slack your team will slack. I have talked to A LOT of current and former VHLM GM’s and the varying opinions and viewpoints are both educational and a little scary. If you are a VHLM GM, or AGM and you prioritize winning over Retention and helping members you should not be GM, if you are a VHLM GM, AGM and you are blaming the VHLE for problems in the VHLM that have existed since before the VHLE you shouldn't be a GM and you are doing more harm then good for the retention you so seek. 

All in all the VHLE Is still an infant, with not enough Data to judge if it works or not, the next few seasons will be a good indication on what needs tobe changed, moved around and altered. Anyone who is saying otherwise I feel is doing more harm then good. Alas this is just my point of view and opinion, so if you disagree lets have a discussion.
 

Edited December 15, 2021 by Horcrux

[UnknownMinion 727]

I may have a pick problem but I also agree that the E isn’t the problem now to read the rest not just the opening lol

[Moon 575]

VHLE sucks cause you only get 1 Practice tpe instead of 2

[a_Ferk 764]

42 minutes ago, Horcrux said:

This article is not in defence of or against the VHLE

[Horcrux 322]

Just now, a_Ferk said:

[Horcrux 322]

4 minutes ago, Moon said:

VHLE sucks cause you only get 1 Practice tpe instead of 2

[Moon 575]

Just now, Horcrux said:

Its BS

[Horcrux 322]

2 minutes ago, Moon said:

Its BS

1 whole TPE is no reason to write off an entire league lol

[a_Ferk 764]

Just now, Horcrux said:

1 whole TPE is no reason to write off an entire league lol

1 whole TPE per week

[Moon 575]

Just now, Horcrux said:

1 whole TPE is no reason to write off an entire league lol

hmmm

[Horcrux 322]

1 minute ago, a_Ferk said:

1 whole TPE per week

Still not a valid reason

[Moon 575]

4 minutes ago, Horcrux said:

Still not a valid reason

Hmm idk about that

[Horcrux 322]

Just now, Moon said:

Hmm idk about that

writing off an entire league cause you loose 1 TPE a week says more about you then the VHLE

[Moon 575]

Just now, Horcrux said:

writing off an entire league cause you loose 1 TPE a week says more about you then the VHLE

I want my 1 more tpe per week

[Horcrux 322]

Just now, Moon said:

I want my 1 more tpe per week

okay? still dont see your point as to how that makes the VHLE bad?

bring me a valid point of contention and ill listen

[Moon 575]

Just now, Horcrux said:

okay? still dont see your point as to how that makes the VHLE bad?

bring me a valid point of contention and ill listen

[a_Ferk 764]

I personally haven't enjoyed the E due to how many inactive players it has. Some teams are over 50% inactive by VHLM standards

Edited December 15, 2021 by a_Ferk

[diacope 1,696]

Ferk can you please tell Moon to stop trolling, thanks buddy

[Beketov 8,996]

6 minutes ago, Moon said:

I want my 1 more tpe per week

Counter argument then: the introduction of the VHLE brought with it 9 season careers which means an extra season of 1 TPE a week which means the same amount as if you spent an extra season in the VHLM previously.

 

So there’s your extra TPE you filthy animal.

 

Also something something, PF used to be 1 TPE a week and only on the VHLM, something something.

 

 

[Horcrux 322]

13 minutes ago, a_Ferk said:

I personally haven't enjoyed the E due to how many inactive players it has. Some teams are over 50% inactive by VHLM standards

see their is a conversation instead of  posting stupid gifs, 

the VHLE is still NEW, next season ahs an influx of Active players and we will see for sure if it works as intended or not. 

Edited December 15, 2021 by Horcrux

[Moon 575]

10 minutes ago, 16z said:

Ferk can you please tell Moon to stop trolling, thanks buddy

I am only saying this so I dont say anything bad and get in trouble

[Moon 575]

11 minutes ago, Beketov said:

Counter argument then: the introduction of the VHLE brought with it 9 season careers which means an extra season of 1 TPE a week which means the same amount as if you spent an extra season in the VHLM previously.

 

So there’s your extra TPE you filthy animal.

 

Also something something, PF used to be 1 TPE a week and only on the VHLM, something something.

 

 

Fair enough, Ill take my 1 tpe per week and run

[Horcrux 322]

18 minutes ago, Moon said:

Great look for a VHLM GM 

[Horcrux 322]

2 minutes ago, Moon said:

I am only saying this so I dont say anything bad and get in trouble

speak you rmind. I wont report you 

as long as you keep it civil and have a conversation without name calling

[Moon 575]

5 minutes ago, Horcrux said:

see their is a conversation instead of  posting stupid gifs, 

the VHLE is still NEW, next season ahs an influx of Active players and we will see for sure if it works as intended or not. 

Except Us VHLM GM/AGM's try out best to keep people active but some of them dont want to go to the VHLE and go IA