VHLM TPE Limit Problem

[gorlab 4,321]

Hello VHL,

 

I am a S40 draftee who will (hopefully) be selected in the S40 VHL entry draft. I have known that you need to remain at 174 tpe, or under, in order to qualify to play your second "send down" year in the VHLM. Up until today I had no issue with this, and thought I was following the rule. I want to play another season for my junior team, and thought I was taking the proper precautions to do so.

 

I am currently at 160 TPE 1 day before the draft. This is mainly all from doing weekly point tasks, practice facilities, XM Radios, the rookie profile, and the biography. The S39 playoffs have just ended and the S39 VHLM Achievement tracker claim was posted, where Jody 3 Moons (my player) qualified for 15 tpe.

 

I assumed that I could just wait the 1-2 weeks weeks until S40 started before posting this in my update thread, so it wouldn't take me over 174 tpe. Apparently this is incorrect, and my two choices are: 

 

• Claim the 15 TPE before the season starts, which would make me ineligible to play in the VHLM for S41.

 

or

 

• Lose the 15 TPE completely. 

 

Now, I'm wondering how this makes any sense? I spent the majority of the S39 VHLM season having second-year 250-350 TPE players like Thomas O'Malley, Mason Richardson, Tyler Cote, Jerrick Poole, etc. dropping 5 goals a game each and causing Jody 3 Moons's rating to go deep into the negatives on multiple occasions.

 

If players like this are allowed to be in the VHLM, why am I forced to lose this 15+ TPE?? There's even more TPE I earned in S39 besides the Achievement tracker, which I just haven't got around to, or forgot to, put in my update thread when the claims were posted (like the 3 TPE bonus for the sterling's 7th birthday or whatever.)

 

To add insult to injury, apparently the 10 TPE from the VHL Team Training Camp, which I will get to participate in when I get drafted, ALSO needs to be claimed before the "VHLM Eligibility" check to ensure send-downs are under 175 tpe is done? 

 

So basically, in order for a rookie to spend a second season in the VHLM, they need to go into the draft with less than 154 tpe so their ~10 tpe from Achievement tracker and 10 tpe from VHL team training camp do not put them over 174 tpe? How do you justify this when re-creates are able to get to absurd 300+ tpe levels while playing their second VHLM season anyway? It's basically like a punishment for people who didn't time their player create at the exact right moment to maximize tpe growth?

 

Yes, I understand I could play 4th line in the VHL with my 175 tpe, but I would like to actually put up a VHLM season like O'Malley, Poole, Richardson, etc. did in a second VHLM season, but because I have been too active on the VHL in terms of doing tasks and making contributions, I am either not allowed to play a second VHLM season OR am forced to just abandon the ~20 tpe that should rightfully be mine.

 

 

 

 

I'm sorry this was so long-winded but I needed to make sure my view-point was explained, and why I think this rule, or this process, is not beneficial at all and takes away from my otherwise enjoyable VHLM/VHL experience.

Edited September 23, 2014 by gorlab

[gorlab 4,321]

Also, in regards to the S39 Achievement tracker. The thread for it specifically states you have to declare which 2 stats you want tracked before the end of the playoffs. Nowhere does it say that the TPE earned from these stats need to be claimed by any specific point. I had no idea that the TPE from that was going to be forced upon me before my "VHLM Eligibility check".

 

If I had known of this absurdity, I would have spent 1-2 weeks not visiting the VHL, instead of spending time/effort making a graphic PT or doing a writing PT.

[Molholt 2,185]

I forfeited closer to 30 to stay under. That's how it is, just gotta deal with it.

[gorlab 4,321]

WHY though? It makes no sense? What's the point of doing it?

[JardyB10 4,865]

I fear I don't have time right this moment to go over everything just now, because I need to finish a paragraph of shit and one of my group members is on my ass, but I just want to quickly point out that super-draftees like O'Malley are not the norm.  This system doesn't exist with pre-draftees in mind, because there's nothing one can do about the amount of TPE a pre-draftee earns.

 

I'll try to return on the morrow, unless someone satisfies you in the meantime.

[Baozi 1,658]

WHY though? It makes no sense? What's the point of doing it?

 

Once you get close to 160-170 points you are already ridiculously good for the VHLM. Anything higher and it becomes really ridiculous how strong you are in the VHLM. In a way its not fair to all the other new players coming in with 30-50 because they just started.

 

Also when you are that close to 200 points, you should be playing in the VHL.

 

The tpe limit is to prevent sandbagging to a degree.

Edited September 23, 2014 by tfong

[gorlab 4,321]

Once you get close to 160-170 points you are already ridiculously good for the VHLM. Anything higher and it becomes really ridiculous how strong you are in the VHLM. In a way its not fair to all the other new players coming in with 30-50 because they just started.

 

Also when you are that close to 200 points, you should be playing in the VHL.

 

The tpe limit is to prevent sandbagging to a degree.

 

Every team in the VHLM's NA conference had more points than every team in the EU conference. I don't see how parity/fairness is even considered. 

 

I spent my S39 VHLM season between 50-150 tpe, while the aforementioned group of players were at 200+. Was it fair to me that I had to compete with these recreates? Why wasn't their TPE growth stunted in order for their VHLM competition to remain somewhat competitive?

 

 

 

 

I'm not trying to be argumentative or start a shit thread like my prior public posts, I just don't feel that this set of rules/procedure is beneficial at all to the VHLM/VHL system.

[NotAVHLM-GM 1,858]

I started the season at 175 as well Gorlab

[gorlab 4,321]

Also, it's clear that there are ways around this. If I had known this was so strictly enforced, I just would have gone to the S39 Off-Season Schedule thread, to see that S40 starts on Sept. 29th.

 

I then would have waited until the last day (Sept 28th) to submit my doubles week VHL S40 Banner as stated in Season 40 Festivities. This way, the banner would likely not have been graded until AFTER the S40 season started (which I'm assuming would be after the VHLM Eligibility TPE Check.)

 

I'm assuming this would be legal/fine to do. I wouldn't have the 12 TPE from that doubles week in my update thread before the 175 tpe eligibility check was done, allowing me to claim 12 TPE from the S39 achievement tracker AND 10 TPE from the VHL TTC and remain under the VHLM eligibility, all while still claiming my 12 TPE doubles week a few days later when it was graded.

 

 

 

Am I wrong in the above logic?

[Guest]

I started below 175 before the start of the season as well for the record. As soon as it started I went over 175.

 

What the system does is it doesn't allow teams to sign inactives over 175 as well as keep players that are above 175 on their squad to beast. If you are at 175 you are good enough to be the VHL.

[JardyB10 4,865]

The VHLM TPE cap is an issue that comes up fairly often.  The problem is that it's difficult to define where to best draw the line.  Once upon a time the cap was easily circumventable, and one could just bank their PTs until the season started, and then pretty much start it with over 200 TPE.  This led to one or two players just raping the league every season, and it was a little ridiculous.  Sure, someone like O'Malley maybe dominated this season, but it was a different level altogether.  And like Green said, he DID technically begin the season with less than 175.  Not that there's much we could do about that anyway, haha. 

 

Anyway, the cap isn't so much about league parity as it is individual players.  You say it was hard having even just carryover players tear it up, but it's an even larger gap for mid-season creations.  Yes, veterans will always do better, but at least first-gens like yourself CAN eventually catch up, assuming we can get you in the VHLM this season yet.  If the cap is much higher, the gap gets even more extreme.  If it gets much lower, then we have premature players in the VHL and their rookie season sucks and that sucks.  So 175 is the number, in my opinion.

 

 

Also, it's clear that there are ways around this. If I had known this was so strictly enforced, I just would have gone to the S39 Off-Season Schedule thread, to see that S40 starts on Sept. 29th.

 

I then would have waited until the last day (Sept 28th) to submit my doubles week VHL S40 Banner as stated in Season 40 Festivities. This way, the banner would likely not have been graded until AFTER the S40 season started (which I'm assuming would be after the VHLM Eligibility TPE Check.)

 

I'm assuming this would be legal/fine to do. I wouldn't have the 12 TPE from that doubles week in my update thread before the 175 tpe eligibility check was done, allowing me to claim 12 TPE from the S39 achievement tracker AND 10 TPE from the VHL TTC and remain under the VHLM eligibility, all while still claiming my 12 TPE doubles week a few days later when it was graded.

 

 

 

Am I wrong in the above logic?

 

Maybe.  I'm not sure how VHLM eligibility has been enforced, but if it's the same as contract brackets, which are as follows:

 

 

2. Off-season TPE (prediction points, training camp, PTs posted during the "off-season" weeks) DO NOT count towards a player’s TPE hit for the upcoming season.

Then you would probably be fine.

 

But if it's treated as a hard cap, which I think it is, then...I don't know how a situation like that would be treated.  I'd be inclined to think you have a point, but maybe not.  It might be tough to find precedent too since I'm not sure how many seasons conveniently start on a new PT-week.

 

At any rate, even if you/anyone else can find a precedent to circumvent your doubles banner, it looks like you'll still need to give up some points.  Worst case scenario, I can let you claim up to 174 TPE in whatever manner you find easiest, and everything else dies.  So if you wanted to claim 14 of your VHLM bonus, then forgo your VHL TC and all of the random shit you earned during the season, you could do that.  So that's roughly 11-18 TPE of burned TPE, in exchange for a potential (and likely) 20 TPE in performance bonus, +8 in Practice Facilties, plus potential VHLM Fantasy awards and year end awards.  Not to mention your parent team would be more inclined to pay you maximum rookie salary if it wasn't on their cap.  Plus you'd have a better shot at RotY the following season.  So at bare minimum you'd still be up 10 TPE, which isn't so bad.

 

Best case scenario, one finds some precedent of a late off-season PT keeping someone in the VHLM, then we can let the doubles slide.  Sadly, I don't find that to be likely, but you never know.

[gorlab 4,321]

well played Jardy 

[Ninetyfourgoalie 168]

I think these rules need to be more accessible.  As a first-gen, it took a lot of asking around to get the answers I was trying to find so I would be able to create at a time where I could maximize my TPE.

[Caillean 504]

I think these rules need to be more accessible.  As a first-gen, it took a lot of asking around to get the answers I was trying to find so I would be able to create at a time where I could maximize my TPE.

Agreed. I don't mind having to ask questions, but there's really no harm in making the rules a lot more transparent so that everyone understands them completely and doesn't get confused or blindsided by something like this.

[Jala 922]

The VHLM TPE cap is an issue that comes up fairly often.  The problem is that it's difficult to define where to best draw the line.  Once upon a time the cap was easily circumventable, and one could just bank their PTs until the season started, and then pretty much start it with over 200 TPE.  This led to one or two players just raping the league every season, and it was a little ridiculous.  Sure, someone like O'Malley maybe dominated this season, but it was a different level altogether.  And like Green said, he DID technically begin the season with less than 175.  Not that there's much we could do about that anyway, haha. 

 

Anyway, the cap isn't so much about league parity as it is individual players.  You say it was hard having even just carryover players tear it up, but it's an even larger gap for mid-season creations.  Yes, veterans will always do better, but at least first-gens like yourself CAN eventually catch up, assuming we can get you in the VHLM this season yet.  If the cap is much higher, the gap gets even more extreme.  If it gets much lower, then we have premature players in the VHL and their rookie season sucks and that sucks.  So 175 is the number, in my opinion.

 

 

 

Maybe.  I'm not sure how VHLM eligibility has been enforced, but if it's the same as contract brackets, which are as follows:

 

 

Then you would probably be fine.

 

But if it's treated as a hard cap, which I think it is, then...I don't know how a situation like that would be treated.  I'd be inclined to think you have a point, but maybe not.  It might be tough to find precedent too since I'm not sure how many seasons conveniently start on a new PT-week.

 

At any rate, even if you/anyone else can find a precedent to circumvent your doubles banner, it looks like you'll still need to give up some points.  Worst case scenario, I can let you claim up to 174 TPE in whatever manner you find easiest, and everything else dies.  So if you wanted to claim 14 of your VHLM bonus, then forgo your VHL TC and all of the random shit you earned during the season, you could do that.  So that's roughly 11-18 TPE of burned TPE, in exchange for a potential (and likely) 20 TPE in performance bonus, +8 in Practice Facilties, plus potential VHLM Fantasy awards and year end awards.  Not to mention your parent team would be more inclined to pay you maximum rookie salary if it wasn't on their cap.  Plus you'd have a better shot at RotY the following season.  So at bare minimum you'd still be up 10 TPE, which isn't so bad.

 

Best case scenario, one finds some precedent of a late off-season PT keeping someone in the VHLM, then we can let the doubles slide.  Sadly, I don't find that to be likely, but you never know.

Yeah I was struggling with trying to find a way to stay under cap, or see how I could stay down in the VHLM. What I was told by Victor is that it's 174 earned TPE, anything past that and you'll get sent up. I also had the same idea of trying to turn in my DW PT for S40 Cele late in hopes of trying to get it graded later and staying under the cap until the games started, but again I was told that since it was submitted before season started the TPE would be retroactive to that date. I'm turning in a 3-4 TPE sig for my PT this week because that'll put me at 173-174, but I'd be interested in getting a different answer on if we could turn in on Sunday for a late grade.

[Will 4,660]

Alright, well, I'm an expert in this field.

The bit about off-season TPE not counting is for salary cap purposes only, training camp counts.

And remember that the cutoff for the TPE Cap is not until the first game is simmed. So everything you have, claimed or unclaimed, willbe applicable to your total TPE up until game 1 gets simmed.

 

As a first gen, I had 174 before my second season and I had over 400 by the time the following season began. So there is nothing stopping you from being one of those 300+ absurd players! 

Edited September 23, 2014 by Draper

[Victor 10,940]

I'm still not sure if Draper is actually an illegal TPE holder.

Anyway, the rules are in the rulebook, the rulebook pinned in announcement, really can't get more transparent.

[Jala 922]

Alright, well, I'm an expert in this field.

The bit about off-season TPE not counting is for salary cap purposes only, training camp counts.

And remember that the cutoff for the TPE Cap is not until the first game is simmed. So everything you have, claimed or unclaimed, willbe applicable to your total TPE up until game 1 gets simmed.

 

As a first gen, I had 174 before my second season and I had over 400 by the time the following season began. So there is nothing stopping you from being one of those 300+ absurd players! 

I'm gonna be one of those players . I'm just sad I missed out on 18 potential TPE I'll never get back

[scoop 3,429]

Not going to bother reading all the posts right now since I'm tired, but I'll mention this in case no one else has. While you may sacrifice some TPE in order to stay down, with that you will be getting another season of Practice Facilities (8 TPE) and Achievement Tracker (likely 20 TPE), plus some potential points from VHLM Fantasy Zones.

Edited September 23, 2014 by Streetlight

[Will 4,660]

I'm still not sure if Draper is actually an illegal TPE holder.

Anyway, the rules are in the rulebook, the rulebook pinned in announcement, really can't get more transparent.

I really don't think i am, I even gave up two PT weeks + some of my training camp! I'm just that good.

[scoop 3,429]

Eh, a quick look and I believe Draper does have some points that he shouldn't (S37 prediction points, for example). Probably shouldn't have the two TPE for being a Snub Tourny GM either.

 

Cheater!

Edited September 23, 2014 by Streetlight

[Victor 10,940]

Higginscum.

[NotAVHLM-GM 1,858]

Eh, a quick look and I believe Draper does have some points that he shouldn't (S37 prediction points, for example). Probably shouldn't have the two TPE for being a Snub Tourny GM either.

 

Cheater!

[gorlab 4,321]

If Draper can do it, I'm doing it too.

[Victor 10,940]

Imma take TPE off Draper cuz fuck that guy.