Moderator Complaint

[Phil 5,129]

TBH if people are paying attention to the answers in trivia (whether they spend 5 minutes searching a "database" or the forums), we are preserving the history of the league and remembering some great names and stats.

 

The answers and history of the league is completely all over the place. in some threads, on the portal, in other subforums, in random dead excel sheets. It's very hard for new members specifically to navigate and access.

 

Personally I care way more that a member who joined last season knows a name like Greg Clegane, or a builder like Sam Helberg than how they were given/found the information. 

[Achilles 91]

11 minutes ago, Phil said:

TBH if people are paying attention to the answers in trivia (whether they spend 5 minutes searching a "database" or the forums), we are preserving the history of the league and remembering some great names and stats.

 

The answers and history of the league is completely all over the place. in some threads, on the portal, in other subforums, in random dead excel sheets. It's very hard for new members specifically to navigate and access.

 

Personally I care way more that a member who joined last season knows a name like Greg Clegane, or a builder like Sam Helberg than how they were given/found the information. 

although I agree, for a new player, this is very hard to answer. I have been here half a season and I still have no clue on any of the answers. THE TRIVIA IS NOT NEW USER FRIENDLY history wise. but a solution can easily be made. have 1 question easier and the 2nd one history.

[Spartan 4,531]

58 minutes ago, Achilles said:

wait, I am allowed to search the forums on trivia? news to me. I thought I was cheating if I did. I was guessing the whole time lol sweet. now I can finally get more than 1 point.

 

15 minutes ago, Achilles said:

although I agree, for a new player, this is very hard to answer. I have been here half a season and I still have no clue on any of the answers. THE TRIVIA IS NOT NEW USER FRIENDLY history wise. but a solution can easily be made. have 1 question easier and the 2nd one history.

Let's just be clear that it was difficult for you because as you mentioned, you weren't using the resources available (forums/portal) to find the answers, we don't expect many folks to know the answers off the top of their head. You can also still ask people for help on where to look for these answers.

[Achilles 91]

Just now, Spartan said:

 

Let's just be clear that it was difficult for you because as you mentioned, you weren't using the resources available (forums/portal) to find the answers, we don't expect many folks to know the answers off the top of their head. You can also still ask people for help on where to look for these answers.

and now I know brother

[Baozi 1,662]

9 hours ago, Ricer13 said:

Completely respect if it was MEANT to be a “please stop” method. It clearly wasn’t handled as such from the moderator dealing with the issue. It seems like there was a lot of miscommunication amongst the mods, commissioners, GMs, etc. and it turned into something that was not just a “please stop” issue. 
 

I just want this to be a learning experience for everyone. It wasn’t handled the right way, people made mistakes and it’s a time to take a step back and learn how this could have been handled differently.

 

I wasn't around at the time when this occurred itself but the discussion I reviewed indicated that it was definitely a "please stop" look and not a "lets punish everyone" talk.

 

I have given my input internally as to how the steps taken could've been improve and would use this as a learning process for all of us.

[Pifferfish 597]

1 hour ago, Spartan said:

 

Let's just be clear that it was difficult for you because as you mentioned, you weren't using the resources available (forums/portal) to find the answers, we don't expect many folks to know the answers off the top of their head. You can also still ask people for help on where to look for these answers.

I think it can be simultaneously true that the questions are very imposing for a new player and that the solution shouldn't be giving them the answers directly. I can think of a few personal exceptions I would make but those are very niche and would always be accompanied by the path I took to the solution.

 

To elaborate on my original point there, you join the server. Someone tells you trivia is an easy 2 TPE and you hop on the portal and start the trivia. Now you get a question about an award winner from the past, where is awards? Well on the portal there isn't an award tab. Because awards are buried under the HOF tab. Intuitively I wouldn't guess that. The only reason I personally figured that out was a lot of scrolling in a channel on the main VHL discord. Then you get to the ones where the answer is on the forum. Alot of people just simply aren't adept at navigating a forum like this or knowing how to find specific stuff. At what point is just giving an answer so much different than just linking someone the page it's on? That doesn't help them learn to navigate the portal or forum at all. Idk, maybe I have rambled a bit here but I think this highlights my general thought on this as someone who did join like a month ago.

[Beketov 9,103]

32 minutes ago, Pifferfish said:

At what point is just giving an answer so much different than just linking someone the page it's on?

Generally my response in that situation is something along the lines of “You can find that in the HoF section on the forum” or whatever it is. That’s not giving them a direct link to the relevant topic but at least it’s pointing someone in the right direction. The board makes it clear what all the forums and subforums are so finding a forum when it’s specifically mentioned is not necessarily difficult.

 

I think the biggest issue is people find a question that have trouble with and either just seek out someone to hand them the answer or they guess. A far better course of action is to use the trivia channel on the discord to ask for help. People generally won’t hand you the direct answer but they will point you in the right direction.

[Spartan 4,531]

12 minutes ago, Pifferfish said:

I think it can be simultaneously true that the questions are very imposing for a new player and that the solution shouldn't be giving them the answers directly. I can think of a few personal exceptions I would make but those are very niche and would always be accompanied by the path I took to the solution.

We have had discussions with the trivia head that questions that take an excessive amount of effort to figure out shouldn't be included. So hopefully we can eliminate those exceptions you refer to since everyone, except maybe the absolute history nerds, would like to see those gone as well.

 

18 minutes ago, Pifferfish said:

Someone tells you trivia is an easy 2 TPE

I'd hope people don't really undersell a point task as too easy, because the intent is to have reviewing, game recaps and trivia to be interchangeable. All three should be similar levels of effort otherwise the tasks become redundant.

 

50 minutes ago, Pifferfish said:

Now you get a question about an award winner from the past, where is awards? Well on the portal there isn't an award tab. Because awards are buried under the HOF tab. Intuitively I wouldn't guess that. The only reason I personally figured that out was a lot of scrolling in a channel on the main VHL discord. Then you get to the ones where the answer is on the forum. Alot of people just simply aren't adept at navigating a forum like this or knowing how to find specific stuff. At what point is just giving an answer so much different than just linking someone the page it's on? That doesn't help them learn to navigate the portal or forum at all. Idk, maybe I have rambled a bit here but I think this highlights my general thought on this as someone who did join like a month ago.

All of this though, there shouldn't be any issue at all with people receiving assistance from their teammates and GM's/AGM's or even folks in the main discord in the trivia challenge. Should be encouraged even since it means those newer folks are building up lines of communication with others in the league, and then also slowly learning to navigate the forum as well. But really at the end of the day it's just another 1 TPE task. Do whichever one you please.

 

[rory 1,945]

this goes hard

[Ricer13 2,824]

[Frank 5,259]

Just dm me for answers. 

[vincentlg2007 498]

16 hours ago, Frank said:

Just dm me for answers.