Democracy Dies in my Home State

[a_Ferk 766]

6 hours ago, Arce said:

COMPROMISE

People forgot how to

[Da Trifecta 1,902]

2 hours ago, fishy said:

i would sure hope that "the democratic mindset" is not resignation or apathy?

 

I mean it's a consensus I'd assume for how the Democrats feel about Trump

[Spartan 4,530]

5 minutes ago, Da Trifecta said:

 

I mean it's a consensus I'd assume for how the Democrats feel about Trump

Ngl I have no clue what you're trying to say. Nothing about how one party feels about the opposing party's candidate is apathetic or resigned. Literally the opposite lol.

[Ozzy Batty 293]

I taught high school history/government/economics for 15 years. It would turn my stomach to stand in front of my students and talk about the "Great Compromise" and the other monumental compromises in the history of the USA and then turn on the news and hear politicians treating it as a sign of weakness...that somehow acknowledging there may be a differing viewpoint from theirs was some sort of act of weakness or desperation.  I remember President Reagan working with House Speaker Tip O'Neill on plans to help the country, not 1 party over the other, but the whole country. I remember Pres Clinton working with House Speaker Newt Gingrich to move the country forward. But not anymore.

Everything has become a 0-sum game. That someone being given a right somehow takes it away from another, or diminishes the value of another's rights. It doesnt. Human rights are not a pizza that has to be shared amongst a select few...it is an unlimited pizza buffet where all can eat as much as they want. But for that to happen there needs to be an acceptance that, just as one side is entitled to their opinion and belief, so is the other side. But the way the country can only move forward is if we do it together, not by sacrificing the other side.

I normally stay out of political discussions in sim leagues. But I want to applaud you for how civil this has been. That is what will be the difference, civil exchanges where everyone walks away feeling like they were heard. When conversations occur in a bubble, people can create their own reality, their own "truth" if you will. No one questions, no one challenges so there is no growth. Hearing what one wants to hear is not empowering, it stunts growth. 

The objective is to teach people to think for themselves, to give them the skills to view all sides of an issue and then decide how they want to proceed with it. Learning is intellectually painful, expanding what we "know" causes discomfort....but it also leads to growth...to forming new beliefs and being inspired to push the envelope of what is the "reality" for the rest of society.

Sorry, got on a coffee fueled sermon...but rock on folks! My generation has made a mess of some things...but I believe that you will look at history the way it should be looked at and see the good...and the bad, while learning from both. 

That is the way to move forward...looking back to see what can be learned...applying it and taking those steps...one at a time.

[Da Trifecta 1,902]

1 hour ago, Spartan said:

Ngl I have no clue what you're trying to say. Nothing about how one party feels about the opposing party's candidate is apathetic or resigned. Literally the opposite lol.

 

I'm trying to say that it's a consensus that the Democrats hate him, not quite sure why you aren't getting that bud but it's all good nonetheless.

[Spartan 4,530]

Just now, Da Trifecta said:

 

I'm trying to say that it's a consensus that the Democrats hate him, not quite sure why you aren't getting that bud but it's all good nonetheless.

Probably because your one sentence points haven't been making much sense. I just don't really get some of your points in this thread and the vibe seems to be the others don't get it either, or they seem that you're trolling a bit. 

[Da Trifecta 1,902]

1 hour ago, Spartan said:

Probably because your one sentence points haven't been making much sense. I just don't really get some of your points in this thread and the vibe seems to be the others don't get it either, or they seem that you're trolling a bit. 

 

So you don't get a generalized statement that it's a known fact that the Democrats hate Trump? I don't know how easier I can make it for you to understand but here goes. The Democrats, you know the group that leans left, (still with me here?), they do not like (means hate, despise or shows disdain) for Donald Trump, (you know the guy who was the 45th President). Hopefully I didn't lose you or anyone else here who "don't get it" along the way.

Edited April 10, 2023 by Da Trifecta

[Spartan 4,530]

25 minutes ago, Da Trifecta said:

So you don't get a generalized statement that it's a known fact that the Democrats hate Trump? I don't know how easier I can make it for you to understand but here goes. The Democrats, you know the group that leans left, (still with me here?), they do not like (means hate, despise or shows disdain) for Donald Trump, (you know the guy who was the 45th President). Hopefully I didn't lose you or anyone else here who "don't get it" along the way.

Thank you for the totally unneeded condescending response. I think we're concerned about different things in this thread at this point so I'll let you go back to posting various gifs and I'll go back to losing league of legends games.

[FrostBeard 2,061]

Thinking about it a bit more, I think that this idea that the US political parties are unable to compromise right now is an expected chain of events. And I think it is very much closely associated with this problem of "Democracy is dying" that Nurx started.

We all know that at some point in 90s Democratic party and Republic party started moving away from being Centre-left and Centre-right parties to being Left/Far Left and Right/Far Right leaning parties respectively. For the US political environment it made sure that the  aggression of ideas from both sides started to come up. 

This is something that I have been following for years in Latvia and it is basically the same in US and any other democratic state. Democratic party sees this time, age of Gen Z and Millenials as an opportunity to push for more progressive measures (I have to point out that most of the Democratic party are not Social Democrats by any means but actually just Moderate Liberals) that might seen very simplistic like trying to eliminate hate speech and making sure that gun problem is to some extent being fixed. On the other hand, Republican party who has strong wing of Far-right activists like MTG and Matt Gaetz (Even though again, Republican party in a huge majority should be considered Moderate Conservatives) believes that it is also the time to revert certain progress made in terms of rights and openness of ideas. At this point is a huge political game where one party talks about how US not as great as people think but it can be better if the country would follow a way of reforms and change that have helped countries like Denmark, Sweden and Finland become  great examples of strong government that supports its citizens VS the other party who looks at some time in history and says "Hey, remember how great you lived back in *insert any decade when the person was in their 20s/30s* - lets work to make sure we get back to it!". 

It is tough because those situations, sadly are mutually exclusive and there is no compromise. You can't compromise when taking away woman's rights for abortion, you can't compromise when your whole political agenda is based "America is a Christian nation". It is tough because the moderates that could try to compromise with the other side are drawn in to support all the ideas that their party puts out because if not, they will not be reelected or nominated. 

Look at how many Republicans spoke badly about Trump after January 6 Capitol riots and how they are reacting now to his idictment. They know that if Trump will become Republican nominee they will need his support no matter how aggressively they stood against him when it comes to Capitol riots.  It is just one example but sadly that is how the political relationships work. 

Edited April 10, 2023 by FrostBeard

[Da Trifecta 1,902]

7 hours ago, Spartan said:

Thank you for the totally unneeded condescending response. I think we're concerned about different things in this thread at this point so I'll let you go back to posting various gifs and I'll go back to losing league of legends games.

 

I mean it was a straight forward answer as to what I was saying. You're whole condescending attitude with the "not making sense" or the "you're trolling" remarks kind of set it off. So I played into what you were feeding me. I mean it takes a good troll to know one right? If you accused me of being one, well I don't just normally troll unless provoked through other trolling methods. The straight forward answer was as blatant as it gets. Sorry if my blunt observation of things made you think that I was allegedly trolling or just not making sense. I'll refer back to the straight forward observation of how I perceive things to be and let's hope that doesn't have to escalate into things that aren't really necessary like how we are bickering back and forth right now. Also nothing in this thread concerns me, I just came in making a statement that got blown out of proportion and lead to 2-3 different people being confused as to me again posting a gif with a blatant observation of the situation. Have yourself a good day nonetheless Sparty McFly.

 

Edited April 10, 2023 by Da Trifecta

[twists 412]

This whole thread is cringe

[Grape 738]

On 4/8/2023 at 12:06 AM, nurx said:

I'd like to add to this saying that I don't believe children should even be working until after they graduate HS. Children should not be forced to help support their family. 

Disagree with the first half. Pre-graduation jobs help teach skills and general conduct that would be important going into future occupations. It shouldn't be there to support a family, but to create a working mindset. Also good to start building a resume early and lower stage jobs help sharpen those skills.

[Grape 738]

On 4/10/2023 at 3:56 AM, FrostBeard said:

We all know that at some point in 90s Democratic party and Republic party started moving away from being Centre-left and Centre-right parties to being Left/Far Left and Right/Far Right leaning parties respectively.

Politically speaking this is false. The Democratic and Republican parties are pretty similar on the political spectrum (both slightly auth-right), with minor differences being blown up and made to believe are major. There's a reason people are able to switch from one to the other pretty easily. The media just likes to push the divide and give far-left/right voices a platform to present themselves because radicalism = clicks. We hear antifa-this and proud boys-that, not because those groups are the norm, but because they are the exception and the exception will typically get more views. Same thing with shootings and AR-15s. Vast majority are done by handguns, but since AR-15s are the prime issue, those ones get highlighted.

[FrostBeard 2,061]

38 minutes ago, Grape said:

Politically speaking this is false. The Democratic and Republican parties are pretty similar on the political spectrum (both slightly auth-right), with minor differences being blown up and made to believe are major. There's a reason people are able to switch from one to the other pretty easily. The media just likes to push the divide and give far-left/right voices a platform to present themselves because radicalism = clicks. We hear antifa-this and proud boys-that, not because those groups are the norm, but because they are the exception and the exception will typically get more views. Same thing with shootings and AR-15s. Vast majority are done by handguns, but since AR-15s are the prime issue, those ones get highlighted.

This sadly is false. Of course when parties and their majority members are in the Centre-left or Centre-right you can easily switch between them HOWEVER the voice of certain more radical parts have become a driving force for political change. 

Loud ideas drive support in the society - that is the reason we see people like MTG and Matt Gaetz and Bernie Sanders and AOC elected. Because they speak about things that their voters support, ideas that others are either afraid to say or do not believe in. Because of that push ar rally around these ideas more centre political actors have to move and support certain positions that they might not support. That is why you can easily say that Democratic and Republican parties have moved away from the Centre-left and Centre-right positions, because they are forced. 

There is a reason why looking at certain countries in Europe you see Populists winning from both sides because people want to hear things about change - what that change is however is up to the person. 

This whole conversation started with the simple - no compromises are easily possible and democracy is dying which in fact is true. Sad, but true. And talking about media - media has always been a driving force of the political system. Daily Wire and FOX support Republicans the same way as MSNBC supports Democrats on the SocDem wing, CNN supports liberals. 

Also, to just quickly mention switching form one party to another - that is not based on the fact that they are similar but based on the fact that politics of each have become more devisive which in fact creates a larger base of independent voters. It if well researched.

[Grape 738]

5 hours ago, FrostBeard said:

This sadly is false. Of course when parties and their majority members are in the Centre-left or Centre-right you can easily switch between them HOWEVER the voice of certain more radical parts have become a driving force for political change.

I see the US political spectrum that like what the Federal Republic of Germany had in the 50s-60s. The vast majority of the elected politicians are in the center. The lack of choice from those two parties, obviously needing to maintain a majority to beat out the other, leaves no room for people further from the center to go somewhere else, so instead opt for whichever party comes closer. So while the focus of each party is near the center, there are some stragglers that sit at the further ends. Again, politically, Democrats and Republicans are pretty similar, the radicals on both sides are what stretch out the parties and the media focuses on these far sides to identify the parties.

[nurx 914]

3 hours ago, Grape said:

I see the US political spectrum that like what the Federal Republic of Germany had in the 50s-60s. The vast majority of the elected politicians are in the center. The lack of choice from those two parties, obviously needing to maintain a majority to beat out the other, leaves no room for people further from the center to go somewhere else, so instead opt for whichever party comes closer. So while the focus of each party is near the center, there are some stragglers that sit at the further ends. Again, politically, Democrats and Republicans are pretty similar, the radicals on both sides are what stretch out the parties and the media focuses on these far sides to identify the parties.

I'd argue dems are center-center right while republicans are rapidly moving farther right. I mean if you look around at how the republican party has been using it's power since Reagan we see this pattern emerge. They do something that is completely out of the question, people get angry about it, people forget, they do it regularly and find something crazier to do. I mean using the supreme court to possibly overturn an election in 2000 was what should have been a massive red flag going forward.