Admin Victor 10,943 Posted July 16, 2015 Admin Share Posted July 16, 2015 In Season 40, four teams were stocking up the draft picks. Four-time finalists Davos, underwhelming Seattle and Vasteras still competed in Season 39, while Toronto, three-time finalists themselves, decided to pack in in after Season 38. Yet despite the headstart, they have now gone into a new rebuild, having watched the Bears sweep them and win a cup, while Davos and now Stockholm are poised for several seasons at the top. Where did it all go wrong? Well, the S41 VHL Entry Draft for example: http://www.vhlforum.com/index.php?/topic/14877-s41-vhl-entry-draft/ The four teams had 16 of the first 17 picks, yet while Seattle got Mikaelson, Rhinehart, Samuelsson, and Karlsson (and then Pajodcast), Toronto ended up with Okranitz, Firkley, and Pettyfer. The last of these is the best player but is peaking elsewhere. To get Okranitz, Toronto gave up on the S42 draft too (another example of Seattle getting quality over Stockholm's quantity) and then had to start competing to keep the S40 core of Zoidberg, Cote, and Poole happy. The trade for Mike was necessary but they shouldn't have been in that position. Even more importantly, this trade... http://www.vhlforum.com/index.php?/topic/17014-rigtor-s41-off-season/ The reasoning for giving up a S44 first > Not that S44 was any good. And then finally, maybe the Legion still should have beaten Cologne to Waldron or maybe even Quebec to Mikaelson. The team's still decent and not excessively old and I'm guessing Seattle's lines got the better of them last season despite, imo, a better roster. Anyway, hopefully the next cycle is less underwhelming. Link to comment https://vhlforum.com/topic/22103-how-did-toronto-throw-it-all-away/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
Da Trifecta 1,899 Posted July 16, 2015 Share Posted July 16, 2015 Can't beat a trade when I blocked Toronto Link to comment https://vhlforum.com/topic/22103-how-did-toronto-throw-it-all-away/#findComment-244539 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Admin Victor 10,943 Posted July 16, 2015 Author Admin Share Posted July 16, 2015 Well obviously, you had publicly stated you would retire if you ever played for Toronto. diamond_ace, Smarch and scoop 3 Link to comment https://vhlforum.com/topic/22103-how-did-toronto-throw-it-all-away/#findComment-244541 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kendrick 4,741 Posted July 16, 2015 Share Posted July 16, 2015 Well obviously, you had publicly stated you would retire if you ever played for Toronto. and Quebec. Link to comment https://vhlforum.com/topic/22103-how-did-toronto-throw-it-all-away/#findComment-244544 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Da Trifecta 1,899 Posted July 16, 2015 Share Posted July 16, 2015 Well obviously, you had publicly stated you would retire if you ever played for Toronto. No I just asked to go to a competing team and said the teams I would prefer. I said I don't want to go to Toronto from the loss of talent. Link to comment https://vhlforum.com/topic/22103-how-did-toronto-throw-it-all-away/#findComment-244545 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kesler 1,514 Posted July 16, 2015 Share Posted July 16, 2015 Yeah Toronto rushed out of the rebuild and did not have a legitimate goaltender (I am saying this from now not when Mook was still active). Link to comment https://vhlforum.com/topic/22103-how-did-toronto-throw-it-all-away/#findComment-244547 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Da Trifecta 1,899 Posted July 16, 2015 Share Posted July 16, 2015 Also I already did retire, therefore, I made my way to QC. Obvi you guys forgot the retirement. Link to comment https://vhlforum.com/topic/22103-how-did-toronto-throw-it-all-away/#findComment-244548 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Admin Victor 10,943 Posted July 16, 2015 Author Admin Share Posted July 16, 2015 No I just asked to go to a competing team and said the teams I would prefer. I said I don't want to go to Toronto from the loss of talent.Toronto lost Wahl, Quebec lost Kurri from last season, that's one hell of a mass exodus. Also I already did retire, therefore, I made my way to QC. Obvi you guys forgot the retirement.You made your promise after unretiring. Link to comment https://vhlforum.com/topic/22103-how-did-toronto-throw-it-all-away/#findComment-244551 Share on other sites More sharing options...
CowboyinAmerica 2,890 Posted July 16, 2015 Share Posted July 16, 2015 Something not mentioned that I think was a big factor too: Losing Greg in free agency due to really inactive GMing. At that point, felt like Edgar (probably rightfully) started to panic a bit, especially with Poole showing indications of wanting out, rather than stay the course and set themselves up beautifully for S44 and S45. Link to comment https://vhlforum.com/topic/22103-how-did-toronto-throw-it-all-away/#findComment-244553 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Da Trifecta 1,899 Posted July 16, 2015 Share Posted July 16, 2015 Toronto lost Wahl, Quebec lost Kurri from last season, that's one hell of a mass exodus. You made your promise after unretiring. Therefore you can see who the greater loss is. Also, little did anyone know it coincided with it Link to comment https://vhlforum.com/topic/22103-how-did-toronto-throw-it-all-away/#findComment-244554 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Admin Victor 10,943 Posted July 16, 2015 Author Admin Share Posted July 16, 2015 Something not mentioned that I think was a big factor too: Losing Greg in free agency due to really inactive GMing. At that point, felt like Edgar (probably rightfully) started to panic a bit, especially with Poole showing indications of wanting out, rather than stay the course and set themselves up beautifully for S44 and S45.Fair point. Still needed a goalie though. Sinclair was out of reach, Barnstormer wouldn't have helped, would he have picked Campbell where Helsinki picked Demko? And Wingate would have worked but the team would have fallen apart if Toronto was still picking in the top 3 of S43. Link to comment https://vhlforum.com/topic/22103-how-did-toronto-throw-it-all-away/#findComment-244556 Share on other sites More sharing options...
CowboyinAmerica 2,890 Posted July 16, 2015 Share Posted July 16, 2015 I mean, easy answer is that an active GM would have probably created one instead of Ed Grrr. Alternatively, with the amassed talent that included Greg and S44 picks, would have at least had a better shot at trading for either necessary picks (for Campbell/Barnstormer/Wingate) or grabbing Waldron or Mikaelson this offseason. Link to comment https://vhlforum.com/topic/22103-how-did-toronto-throw-it-all-away/#findComment-244565 Share on other sites More sharing options...
boubabi 4,725 Posted July 16, 2015 Share Posted July 16, 2015 Unlucky player's performance. Toronto just had a better roster than many teams for some seasons and they were just unlucky. We would speak of a disaster in Seattle too without their unlikely cup. Link to comment https://vhlforum.com/topic/22103-how-did-toronto-throw-it-all-away/#findComment-244567 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Admin Victor 10,943 Posted July 16, 2015 Author Admin Share Posted July 16, 2015 Seattle was still a train wreck anyway. They just took down the cup with them. Kesler 1 Link to comment https://vhlforum.com/topic/22103-how-did-toronto-throw-it-all-away/#findComment-244569 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil 5,119 Posted July 16, 2015 Share Posted July 16, 2015 Seattle was still a train wreck anyway. They just took down the cup with them. LOL great pun imo. Beat Cologne in dose Finals Sixersfan594, Victor and Da Trifecta 3 Link to comment https://vhlforum.com/topic/22103-how-did-toronto-throw-it-all-away/#findComment-244584 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boomcheck 161 Posted July 16, 2015 Share Posted July 16, 2015 Link to comment https://vhlforum.com/topic/22103-how-did-toronto-throw-it-all-away/#findComment-244591 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kendrick 4,741 Posted July 16, 2015 Share Posted July 16, 2015 Inactive GM, that's what it came down too. Link to comment https://vhlforum.com/topic/22103-how-did-toronto-throw-it-all-away/#findComment-244602 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Admin Victor 10,943 Posted July 16, 2015 Author Admin Share Posted July 16, 2015 Higgins saved the wrong team. Link to comment https://vhlforum.com/topic/22103-how-did-toronto-throw-it-all-away/#findComment-244604 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ball 453 Posted July 17, 2015 Share Posted July 17, 2015 After Greg left us high and dry, there were talks about losing Poole, so when Okranitz crapped out, we were kinda forced to trade for Mike or risk losing our team for nothing. Other than that trade you highlighted, Edgar did a fantastic job of getting a competitive team together and keeping us happy at the same time. While I wouldnt have minded waiting, Edgar couldnt have afforded too and ill admit I was even a bit antsy to get competing before it was too late for me. Kinda in a shit situation, but with all the inactive jokes aside, Edgar did a great job as a GM. Just had a stroke of bad luck and went about it in the not so typical ol fashion way yall do it. Honestly, I had no regrets about sticking it out and would have stuck it out had jalador not stepped up and gave us an out. Shit happens and it just wasnt meant to be in the end. Atleast I got to play under Edgar and not Bushito, that would have drove me insane. Link to comment https://vhlforum.com/topic/22103-how-did-toronto-throw-it-all-away/#findComment-244686 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kendrick 4,741 Posted July 17, 2015 Share Posted July 17, 2015 After Greg left us high and dry, there were talks about losing Poole, so when Okranitz crapped out, we were kinda forced to trade for Mike or risk losing our team for nothing. Other than that trade you highlighted, Edgar did a fantastic job of getting a competitive team together and keeping us happy at the same time. While I wouldnt have minded waiting, Edgar couldnt have afforded too and ill admit I was even a bit antsy to get competing before it was too late for me. Kinda in a shit situation, but with all the inactive jokes aside, Edgar did a great job as a GM. Just had a stroke of bad luck and went about it in the not so typical ol fashion way yall do it. Honestly, I had no regrets about sticking it out and would have stuck it out had jalador not stepped up and gave us an out. Shit happens and it just wasnt meant to be in the end. Atleast I got to play under Edgar and not Bushito, that would have drove me insane. Yeah but come on let's be honest, showing no initiative with his own player wasn't the brightest moment. Link to comment https://vhlforum.com/topic/22103-how-did-toronto-throw-it-all-away/#findComment-244687 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ball 453 Posted July 17, 2015 Share Posted July 17, 2015 Yeah it sucked for sure but from a gming stand point he did a fine job. Link to comment https://vhlforum.com/topic/22103-how-did-toronto-throw-it-all-away/#findComment-244742 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edgar 283 Posted July 19, 2015 Share Posted July 19, 2015 (edited) Yeah but come on let's be honest, showing no initiative with his own player wasn't the brightest moment. My role in the league at that time was to GM the team. Having an active player would have helped the team, but my priority was to GM which is why I was ok creating a defenseman (arguably the least impact-ful position), I was ok creating a low-TPE player who would act as depth to fill a position while letting top-heavy offense talent earn more money, and ultimately, not signing my own player in my final season. Also, thanks for the kind words Ball And Cowboy was right. I was feeling a little bit panicked and rushed, but for the most part, I entered the playoffs and I competed for a cup (though it was a miserable attempt ) both on pace with my plan from when I initially started the rebuild. Sometimes, the cards don't always go your way, and as a result, you are forced to leave the league and cry in the corner of your room for two weeks straight before leaving the house again because you are low on groceries. Edited July 19, 2015 by Haliburton Ball 1 Link to comment https://vhlforum.com/topic/22103-how-did-toronto-throw-it-all-away/#findComment-245208 Share on other sites More sharing options...
STZ 5,360 Posted July 19, 2015 Share Posted July 19, 2015 edgar is here to eat groceries and kick ass - he's all out of groceries. Link to comment https://vhlforum.com/topic/22103-how-did-toronto-throw-it-all-away/#findComment-245216 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Admin Victor 10,943 Posted July 19, 2015 Author Admin Share Posted July 19, 2015 Edgar's post-retirement treatment of LeBeau has cursed the franchise known for its goalies to never have a good goalie again. Link to comment https://vhlforum.com/topic/22103-how-did-toronto-throw-it-all-away/#findComment-245293 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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