2013-2014 NHL Discussion Thread

[Sandro 251]

Subban "I want 8.5" Montreal "We'll give you 5 something" "Ah what the hell take 9 for the next decade"

 

The rumour of 8-8.5 or whatever it was, was only only a short deal. Because this is a seriously long term deal that covers a lot of UFA years, they had to pay up.

[Fire Tortorella 2,653]

Subban 9 mil per for 8 years LMAO.

 

9mil is retarded.

 

This is what contracts are going to look like for high-end players now that you can't have those ridiculous long contracts anymore to take the AAV down.

[Guest]

If he ever steps up defensively he is worth it, until then I will laugh that he eats up that much.

[Advantage 2,891]

Don't see why Kendrick.  This is just the new precedent.  He eats up what your average elite defenseman eats up when they get signed.

 

 

Subban "I want 8.5" Montreal "We'll give you 5 something" "Ah what the hell take 9 for the next decade"

Those are arbitration numbers...buying out a RFA year is cheaper than when buying out a bunch of UFA years.

 

Subban 9 mil per for 8 years LMAO.

 

9mil is retarded.

I fail to see how.  If Doughty's contract was up this off-season, he'd be looking around 10-10.5.  There was a new precedent set and the cap will continue to go out.  Eventually, Subban's contract will be quite good value wise and that is why it is structured the way it is (7.5 each next year and year after and then jumps over 10).

Edited August 3, 2014 by Advantage

[Guest]

I just look at Subban as a great offensive producer and average defensive player. Sure I'd love him on my team but his current game takes after the Edmonton "we don't play defense" Oilers. Then again I am Billie Beane when it comes to looking at sports franchises.

[8Ovechkin8 262]

there is no way, even of someone with his stature, do I give up 9 mil on one player.

[Fire Tortorella 2,653]

there is no way, even of someone with his stature, do I give up 9 mil on one player.

 

Then good luck ever keeping an elite player on your team.

[Guest]

Subban is a great player, not elite. Elite implies every aspect of his game would over power another player. Subban's own zone coverage is weak.

[Advantage 2,891]

Elite implies he is one of the best at his position in the game....which he is.

 

He's probably among the top seven defenders in the entire world.  And at what he does best (offensively)...he is top-two.  He's also not as bad defensively as some think he is (average is fair but he is actually pretty good on the PK).

[Tyler 885]

in what world is subban not elite lol

 

He's a top 5 defenseman this isnt even a debate anymore.

[Guest]

in what world is subban not elite lol

 

He's a top 5 defenseman this isnt even a debate anymore.

He is top 5, no one disputed that. But his defensive work leaves something to be desired which is why he wouldn't be my first choice. I get that you are a Habs fan and he is on the Habs, but the obvious lack of attention Habs fans pay to his defensive work is somewhat baffling. He is the best or one of two plays that I worry about on the backend in my zone, because he can change the game in the flip of a switch. However, he can also give up a silly play in his own end almost as frequent. Once again, no one said he isn't in the top 5. I'd take him before Chara any day of the week, simply on foot speed alone.

 

For me in no order cause I'm dead tired: Weber, Subban, Keith, Doughty and Pietrangelo.

[Advantage 2,891]

I think it comes down to our personal definitions of elite and how they differ.

 

I view all five defenders you have in your top five as elite.

 

At the end of the day, I expected around 8 Million per.  With that being said, with that extra 1 million I can sign a 4th liner...if that's the difference in getting my best player and one of the best at his position locked up long-term (at a contract that will eventually look pretty good) then I am all for it.

[8Ovechkin8 262]

7.5-8 would have been what I would have gave him. In the long run that 1mil makes a difference. All in all in today's NHL success is highly based off if your young players and roll players can step up and give you good minutes and people having breakout runs at opportune times. Atleast with PK the habs know what they'll be getting.

[Advantage 2,891]

Problem is that contracts that guys like Phaneuf have received, have pretty well fucked the market up. 

 

I guess since Subban took a pay cut for the last two years, he technically makes 7.7 per from the ages of 23 (the year he won the Norris) to 33.  That's not too bad, especially with how the cap will rise.

Edited August 3, 2014 by Advantage

[gregreg 930]

Subban isn't worth 9m and Phaneuf isn't worth 7m but the players/GMs know the cap is going up. Soon they won't even be that big of a deal.

Edited August 3, 2014 by gregreg

[Guest]

I'm sure down the road 9 Million will look fair, right now though it just seems high. Then again you'll see guys who are equal to Legwand, get about 6 million a year in a few years if you see how the cap is going now.

[boubabi 4,725]

some funny stuff in here.

Subban takes the same % of the salary cap of any NHL defensemen when they were signed at the time.

That's the new reality, you can't eat up cap hit like suter's deal (He's paid 12 millions this year). He probably has the second best shot for a defensemen (after Weber) in the whole NHL. He's a special player, and that's what Montreal needs. At the end of his contract, he'll be 33, this is still pretty good. He's a born leader and he can bring a lot to a team.

 

Good signing MB 

[Guest]

some funny stuff in here.

Subban takes the same % of the salary cap of any NHL defensemen when they were signed at the time.

That's the new reality, you can't eat up cap hit like suter's deal (He's paid 12 millions this year). He probably has the second best shot for a defensemen (after Weber) in the whole NHL. He's a special player, and that's what Montreal needs. At the end of his contract, he'll be 33, this is still pretty good. He's a born leader and he can bring a lot to a team.

 

Good signing MB 

You probably find it funny because it differs from your opinion (as a Habs fan no less). I get you guys are supportive, but just because someone has a difference of opinion doesn't make it wrong.

 

Why mention Suter when everyone knows that was an overpayment by a long shot? To me that's not something I would've brought up to support an argument. Subban is a great player and is their best defenseman obviously, all I said is that when I pay top dollar I better have a guy who is elite in all facets. Subban lacks defensively responsibility for me to think he is worth the price of the contract. Then again knowing the cap, thats how it's going to be anyways from now on.

[boubabi 4,725]

Ovechkin is not an elite in all facets

Crosby isn't

Letang isn't

etc etc.

 

He does something good : he scores goals. He's one of the best and that's what it takes to keep our good players.

and I'm very neutral of any analysis of any NHL team, but seing you hating the habs for nothing is disturbing me .

[Fire Tortorella 2,653]

some funny stuff in here.

Subban takes the same % of the salary cap of any NHL defensemen when they were signed at the time.

That's the new reality, you can't eat up cap hit like suter's deal (He's paid 12 millions this year). He probably has the second best shot for a defensemen (after Weber) in the whole NHL. He's a special player, and that's what Montreal needs. At the end of his contract, he'll be 33, this is still pretty good. He's a born leader and he can bring a lot to a team.

 

Good signing MB 

 

That's not entirely true. Subban's recent deal is 13.4% of the cap, while some comparable are Weber (11.19%), Suter (10.74%). Campbell (12.6%), Karlsson (9.6%), and Pietrangelo (10.11%). Those were all signed under the old CBA though. When you look at the recent Kane and Toews contracts (15.2% for both), it falls in line.

 

You probably find it funny because it differs from your opinion (as a Habs fan no less). I get you guys are supportive, but just because someone has a difference of opinion doesn't make it wrong.

 

Why mention Suter when everyone knows that was an overpayment by a long shot? To me that's not something I would've brought up to support an argument. Subban is a great player and is their best defenseman obviously, all I said is that when I pay top dollar I better have a guy who is elite in all facets. Subban lacks defensively responsibility for me to think he is worth the price of the contract. Then again knowing the cap, thats how it's going to be anyways from now on.

 

There are very few players who are elite in all assets of the game. I think you're setting the bar too high.

[Guest]

That's not entirely true. Subban's recent deal is 13.4% of the cap, while some comparable are Weber (11.19%), Suter (10.74%). Campbell (12.6%), Karlsson (9.6%), and Pietrangelo (10.11%). Those were all signed under the old CBA though. When you look at the recent Kane and Toews contracts (15.2% for both), it falls in line.

 

 

There are very few players who are elite in all assets of the game. I think you're setting the bar too high.

Of course, but then again thats why I wouldn't pay top top dollar for anyone who fails in one area. Will they win a cup with him on the back line? Possibly, but they need a defensively responsible guy beside him. Whereas you can place anyone next to Weber and they won't be covering for his mistakes (cause he makes very few).

[Fire Tortorella 2,653]

Of course, but then again thats why I wouldn't pay top top dollar for anyone who fails in one area. Will they win a cup with him on the back line? Possibly, but they need a defensively responsible guy beside him. Whereas you can place anyone next to Weber and they won't be covering for his mistakes (cause he makes very few).

 

If you were Montreal, what would you have done then?

[boubabi 4,725]

That's not entirely true. Subban's recent deal is 13.4% of the cap, while some comparable are Weber (11.19%), Suter (10.74%). Campbell (12.6%), Karlsson (9.6%), and Pietrangelo (10.11%). Those were all signed under the old CBA though. When you look at the recent Kane and Toews contracts (15.2% for both), it falls in line.

 

 

There are very few players who are elite in all assets of the game. I think you're setting the bar too high.

Their contracts were signed before the new CBA, and Ottawa didn't bought Karlsson free agency, so....

[Fire Tortorella 2,653]

Their contracts were signed before the new CBA, and Ottawa didn't bought Karlsson free agency, so....

 

Yeah, I noted that.

[Guest]

If you were Montreal, what would you have done then?

Moved the franchise.