Devices Random BoG Check In

[Devise 4,475]

Been a bit since I did a proper BoG check in, so I figured I'd throw some text together and not waste the Fan590 upgrade I purchased. 

 

As many probably know by now the BoG was responsible for doing award voting this past season. I felt like it went pretty well, there was a couple of close votes but the key difference was the debate that was had before voting. I know @The Bread Man had issues with not being able to write in a specific candidate for most improved, and perhaps that is something we look at in the future. But all in all it did feel as if this process was better. I think there is still a growing movement that we should have a proper award committee, and even some who still argue that no conflicts of interests should be allowed, such as no GM's, no people voting on awards they are eligible for, etc. But for now I feel like this is a step in the right direction, and we'll see how the Blue Team decides to expand on it going forward. 

 

Otherwise there has been off and on discussion regarding removing a couple of awards, most notably Top Leader and Most Sportsmanlike. There has also been some discussion regarding adding awards, most notably a Top Defensive D trophy. I feel like that award in particular has gotten more support in the BoG now than it has in recent years whenever it was brought up. I think you could make the argument that there is a group of people now in the BoG who regardless of if it's HoF voting, award voting, or just in terms of the league in general, we severely undervalue the efforts of defenders and defensive stats in general. Because shots blocked can be inflated, most people just look at hits as our only defensive stat. And while SB being inflated is relevant, it doesn't mean we should be writing the stat off all together, only analyzing it in the proper light. Another stat that I know @Phil has supported from a defensive stand point is hits taken versus hits. Even if you work under the assumption that every hit taken isn't a turnover, there is still a defensive aspect to that that needs to be factored in, especially if we consider Hits as a base defensive stat. Hopefully with the move to more discussion based award voting, one that promotes a deeper analysis of stats, we can move forward and have a Top Offensive and Top Defensive D awards respectively. 

 

The other major discussion that has been ongoing has surfaced a bit throughout the actual board. And that relates to some type of contraction. Whether it's alternative proposed ideas such as scrapping the VHLM and looking at how many teams are needed in the VHL if we were to do that. To simply contracting the VHL down fro 10 to 8 teams. There has been tons of healthy discussion on the subject and while my opinion isn't all that is valid on this subject I'll just say that I foresee some changes to the way the VHL is run within the next 3-5 seasons. I think the discussions being had and the amount of give and take on all sides has lead to enough of a consensus on multiple ideas that we are for sure going to see something. I don't know what specifically that something will be as it relates to simply VHL contraction or more wide spread changes. But if I had to bet money on it, I'd say that I think everything from update scale, how TPE is earned and spent all the way to team make ups could see some changes at some point during the real world 2017 calendar year. The biggest motivator of that is seeing even the "oldest" of the old boys club begin to move a little more off the idea of "we should just keep doing this because it's worked for 50 seasons." 

 

Oh and @JardyB10 would be mad if I didn't bring up his most recent post about trying to nail down the GM player rule business as it relates to second players. We've already seen Toast and Higgins leverage the two player system in different ways as it relates to GM players and I think we all feel that narrowing down rules on this is probably in order. While it hasn't been exactly manipulated to extreme degrees yet, it's obvious there is room for manipulation and it's the type of rough edge I think we all knew we'd see come up during the life cycle of Project Two. I mean a rough edge in general by the way, not specifically this issue since if we had seen it coming I'm sure we'd of ironed it out or at least attempted to from the get go.  

 

Oh and while it's only in the early stages of discussion @sterling did give some feedback that is beginning to see support regarding changing of how we do award predictions. Don't worry, if we make changes I'm sure we aren't going to leave the people who just log in and make a quick post for award predictions out in the cold. More so finding ways to reward those who maybe want a bit more. Without spoiling the majority of the idea, initial talks are looking at some gambling/betting aspects with odds etc. Again, just in early stages of discussion. 

 

That should be about it, as always feel free to send any of us a PM with your suggestions or post them in the suggestions forum. If you'd like one of your ideas to see the light when posting in the suggestions forum feel free to tag a BoG member or several, or a Blue Team member. Yes I'm sure most of us still lurk those boards and we always have an open door policy as it comes to making suggestions, but it's still better to be safe than sorry. 

 

 

Edited February 3, 2017 by Mr. Power

[FacePuncher 1,343]

It wasn't really a "problem", I just thought it was interesting how that effected the award voting, and also I needed something to write about for 1 TPE

[Beketov 9,026]

No mention of the #Beke4BOG campaign being discussed, for shame.

[Phil 5,119]

I look at hits and hits taken in "takeaway/giveaway opportunities"  As it is only a chance that hitting someone will make them loose the puck and vice versa. Since we cant keep track of the Giveaways and Takeaways itself, this is the closest we can get to determining how effective they are. 

[Phil 5,119]

2 minutes ago, Beketov said:

No mention of the #Beke4BOG campaign being discussed, for shame.

 

I'm going to put it in my sig

[Devise 4,475]

31 minutes ago, Beketov said:

No mention of the #Beke4BOG campaign being discussed, for shame.

 

It shouldn't be a campaign. PM blue team and get added already so next time I'll be tagging you and your BoG contributions.

[FacePuncher 1,343]

The real questions.

 

What the heck do you go by? Devise or Denise? Or Mr. Power? I dunno what to think

Edited February 3, 2017 by The Bread Man

[boubabi 4,725]

46 minutes ago, Phil said:

I look at hits and hits taken in "takeaway/giveaway opportunities"  As it is only a chance that hitting someone will make them loose the puck and vice versa. Since we cant keep track of the Giveaways and Takeaways itself, this is the closest we can get to determining how effective they are. 

False

 

Having players with 99 strength and 99 puck handling, having players that led the league in hits taken is absurd from your stand point. I saw a considerable rise in hit taken while I was playing center, and I remember kendrick's center (as well as Lindberg) where pretty high in that department as well.

 

Like shotblock, hit taken is a matter of circumstances. If you are a one man army in a weak team, plays will be around you, therefore a higher chances of loosing the puck.

 

Actually, even giveaway and takeaway shouldnt be considered if they were there because the game as evolve enough (irl) to know that those stats aren't precise enough to make a clear evaluation.

 

So no, hits taken shouldn't be considered at any point

[Phil 5,119]

2 minutes ago, boubabi said:

False

 

Having players with 99 strength and 99 puck handling, having players that led the league in hits taken is absurd from your stand point. I saw a considerable rise in hit taken while I was playing center, and I remember kendrick's center (as well as Lindberg) where pretty high in that department as well.

 

 

 

Was your Skating at 99? because skating + puck handling determines how much time you spend on the puck.... the more time you are on the puck, the more likely you are going to be hit. Every time you are hit, there is a chance that you will lose the puck. It's not false. That is fact. 

 

The higher your puck handling the less likely you will lose the puck, but if you're going up against someone who has 99 strength and checking, then it's a 50/50 chance that you'll lose the puck

[Beketov 9,026]

1 hour ago, Mr. Power said:

 

It shouldn't be a campaign. PM blue team and get added already so next time I'll be tagging you and your BoG contributions.

Don't you tell me what to do!

 

Although that's probably a good idea  Honestly in the same way the campaign for Builder went, Im mostly just doing this to have fun. It's not a matter of whether or not I think I have to prove I deserve it, it's more that I want something to joke around about and feel awkward outright asking for.

[solas 1,951]

1 hour ago, Phil said:

 

 

Was your Skating at 99? because skating + puck handling determines how much time you spend on the puck.... the more time you are on the puck, the more likely you are going to be hit. Every time you are hit, there is a chance that you will lose the puck. It's not false. That is fact. 

 

The higher your puck handling the less likely you will lose the puck, but if you're going up against someone who has 99 strength and checking, then it's a 50/50 chance that you'll lose the puck

My understanding is that strength also makes you harder to push off the puck, I'd assume that's what boubabi was referring to.

[Higgins 3,618]

2 hours ago, Beketov said:

Don't you tell me what to do!

 

Although that's probably a good idea  Honestly in the same way the campaign for Builder went, Im mostly just doing this to have fun. It's not a matter of whether or not I think I have to prove I deserve it, it's more that I want something to joke around about and feel awkward outright asking for.

 

Sorry, our Nova Scotia delegation is full in the BOG at 2/2, but maybe we can kick out a westerner and add another.... seems like a smart move actually.

[Beketov 9,026]

24 minutes ago, Higgins said:

 

Sorry, our Nova Scotia delegation is full in the BOG at 2/2, but maybe we can kick out a westerner and add another.... seems like a smart move actually.

Maritimers always need more representation tbh.

[JardyB10 4,865]

32 minutes ago, Higgins said:

 

Sorry, our Nova Scotia delegation is full in the BOG at 2/2, but maybe we can kick out a westerner and add another.... seems like a smart move actually.

It's okay, I'm pretty sure he's from the New Brunswick delegation.

 

3 hours ago, Phil said:

 

The higher your puck handling the less likely you will lose the puck, but if you're going up against someone who has 99 strength and checking, then it's a 50/50 chance that you'll lose the puck

I'm not so sure about that. The higher your Skating and Puck Handling are, the more likely you're going to keep the puck and skate with it. The more you do that, the more hits you're going to take. And it's entirely possible that high Puck Handling makes it less likely to actually lose the puck, but unless you're going to pore over each individual game thread and note how many times the puck was lost on a check, all you're going to see is "Lord Karnage at 99 everything got hit 5000 times because he's a selfish fuckhole." His attributes are so good that maybe he only lost the puck 300 times, but we can't know that at a cursory glance.

 

So in that regard, it is very much like a defeceman with high Defence being on a terrible team getting lots of Shots Blocked. We don't really compare the high amount of SB from a player on a bad team to the SB of a player on a good team, because that's not really fair. But how do you consider a similar factor for Hits Taken?

 

I'm not saying Hits Taken can't/shouldn't be used to consider defensive play. But also I might be, I'm not sure. I haven't really thought about it or looked into it.

 

And for what it's worth, when I did do experiments with V2, I noticed the amount of Giveaways and Takeaways were just as (if not more) arbitrary as the rest of that shit engine. There didn't seem to be any correlation to good players having higher TK and GA or anything. It was similar to how our current sim likes to decide on who doesn't take penalties in any given season, only worse probably.

[Devise 4,475]

Are there any other engines out there better than STHS?

[JardyB10 4,865]

4 minutes ago, Mr. Power said:

Are there any other engines out there better than STHS?

No.

 

I mean, I don't know. There's EHM, though I don't know anything about it. But I just think it would be too different, and that's kind of my main issue with V2. If we started a league fresh with V2, that's one thing. We would all learn and grow with the simulator and find out what works and what doesn't. My current theory on partly why V2 is so shitty is because it doesn't play well with our 2-line team setup. But also it's bloody arbitrary. O'Malley and Koenig and Karnage in their prime all had painfully mediocre seasons when I ran tests, while random rookie/sophomore players (I think Gowecny at the time?) were excelling. And then when I would do another sim the same supposedly elite players would be mediocre, a different group of mediocre players would be elite, and the previous group of elite mediocre players would suddenly be terrible. And admittedly, it could be entirely different if we did an actual season sim, because full season sims generally have some goofiness even at the best of times. But they at least have some semblance of consistency and predictability. Sure, you might have AK47 be a Top 5 scorer in one full season sim, but at least over several sims Maximoff, Kohler, and Lincoln are consistently up there, and Sean Blacker never is.

 

The best we could do if we wanted to change engines would be a concurrent alternate reality full season test of how V2 (or EHM even maybe probably not) would work, and maybe seeing if it's feasible, or at least if there's adjustments we could make to make it so. Otherwise, a different simulator or a new version would require a whole league reboot IMO. And a league reboot is just a synonym for closing this league and attempting to keep its members.

[Molholt 2,185]

17 minutes ago, JardyB10 said:

And a league reboot is just a synonym for closing this league and attempting to keep its members.

 

I'm intrigued

[JardyB10 4,865]

1 hour ago, Molholt said:

 

I'm intrigued

It's a bad idea. The cons completely outweigh the pros IMO. Pros: We get new stats and a neat new engine which may or may not just be shittier. Cons: We possibly lose half the member base in the move. Likely including myself tbh. We'd may as well merge with the GOMHL or some other random sim league. If we just want to change absolutely everything then what's the point of being here specifically?

[TheLastOlympian07 2,388]

3 hours ago, Higgins said:

 

Sorry, our Nova Scotia delegation is full in the BOG at 2/2, but maybe we can kick out a westerner and add another.... seems like a smart move actually.

i think you guys need a northern delegation aka north of Prince George B.C thats at 0/1 so far. 

[TheLastOlympian07 2,388]

2 hours ago, Molholt said:

 

I'm intrigued

how about we just start a new league molholt with ehm 

[DollarAndADream 3,356]

7 hours ago, Beketov said:

Don't you tell me what to do!

 

Although that's probably a good idea  Honestly in the same way the campaign for Builder went, Im mostly just doing this to have fun. It's not a matter of whether or not I think I have to prove I deserve it, it's more that I want something to joke around about and feel awkward outright asking for.

I'm not sure anyone should have an argument against you being in the BoG, so it seems like an easy add to me.

 

2 hours ago, TheLastOlympian07 said:

how about we just start a new league molholt with ehm 

I'm all for it.

[Jericho 917]

15 hours ago, DollarAndADream said:

I'm not sure anyone should have an argument against you being in the BoG, so it seems like an easy add to me.

 

I'm all for it.

 

No fuck that guy! I'm the only Monctonian!

[Beketov 9,026]

2 hours ago, Jericho said:

 

No fuck that guy! I'm the only Monctonian!

Except I wasn't born in Moncton and don't live there anymore so I'm not a Monctonian by any definition haha

[boubabi 4,725]

On 03/02/2017 at 3:31 PM, JardyB10 said:

No.

 

I mean, I don't know. There's EHM,

I'M a EHM master, and it's a flawed engine with tons of problems