S56 VHL Awards

[Advantage 2,891]

11 minutes ago, jRuutu said:

Yea I can see how the communication clearly works when some awards get 4 or 5 votes in total.

 

Why not change it to take the playoffs into consideration as well? In NHL players need to actually work and improve their players in the practice, they cant coast it like welfare players can here, same sport, but different leagues in the end.

 

Why the top-gm award needs to be so heavily focused on making moves and trades? Is hedgehog now out of top-gm talks until he decides to start making trades again? 

 

How about you make sure your team of voters first vote in all of the awards before pointing me not knowing how some awards have terrible rules in place?

 

People didn't see the new threads.  It happens.  It won't again, people should have got tagged.

 

We can certainly discuss it but with how bullshit the sim can be in the playoffs, I don't think it's the best indicator of the work a GM put in...especially since we don't want to just hand it to the Cup Winning team each year.

 

Not necessarily but we judge not just on your moves but on other factors including team improvement in standings and yes, the core you built...along with other factors.

 

It's not MY team of voters but instead of assuming and going on your little rants, actually ask us questions in a manner that doesn't insult.  Saying we don't do any work and get paid for it much less is ridiculous to some in there who actually work their asses off to try and better this league and for no pay within the BOG.  I'm not in my cozy chair, I am busting my ass trying to revamp the HOF, get caught up on HOF articles (I have wrote over 10,000 words in articles this week) and still contribute to the BOG where I can...just as one example.

 

If it were up to me we would have waited a day for more votes and tag those who didn't vote, but since it is a private voting I was not aware and the blue team decided they wanted it up because other members of the group had plenty of time to see it and vote on it.  

Edited October 6, 2017 by ADV

[Beketov 9,021]

9 minutes ago, jRuutu said:

Yea I can see how the communication clearly works when some awards get 4 or 5 votes in total.

 

Why not change it to take the playoffs into consideration as well? In NHL players need to actually work and improve their players in the practice, they cant coast it like welfare players can here, same sport, but different leagues in the end.

 

Why the top-gm award needs to be so heavily focused on making moves and trades? Is hedgehog now out of top-gm talks until he decides to start making trades again? 

 

How about you make sure your team of voters first vote in all of the awards before pointing me not knowing how some awards have terrible rules in place?

 

1. There was a mistake made with the voting topic and Top D was missed in the vote. Not everyone saw the new topic which is why there were so few votes on it. It's annoying and it won't happen again but it has no bearing on top GM in any way. I don't see a reason to bring it up.

 

2. Possible changes to the award voting is being brought up. We'll consider whether playoffs should be a factor. As I stated above though, right now they are not so nothing will be changed by arguing about whether Frank deserved it or not right now.

 

3. As we said, top GM is not solely decided on moves and Hedgehog isn't necessarily out of the running if he doesn't make any; same as any other GM isn't. Just because another GM had a better season than Frank in the vote's opinion does not mean we don't recognize what Frank did. This has much less to do with what Frank did and much more to do with what Hedgehog did. Situations change every single season so each vote takes slightly different things into account. This season it happened to be moves because of how many were made. Next season maybe no one makes any trades so we take other things into consideration.

 

4. Once again, this is unrelated to the vote in question. I'm sorry it happened but bringing it up in this discussion doesn't serve any purpose.

[jRuutu 2,464]

Just now, der meister said:

 

Why it doesn't consider the playoffs has already been addressed. It's a silly concept to include that as well. 

 

If Hedgehog is able to lead Riga to another league-leading season, while losing the best defenseman in the league to retirement, then he should absolutely be in the discussion. You're looking at it in such a black-and-white way that it's frankly kind of mind-boggling. There are a lot of considerations to take into account. It doesn't have to be on making moves and trades. Drafting, player management in general [cap, for example], line tactics [if Shankly goes from 50 points to 120 points with minimal TPE improvement, you can probably cite that as good management more than anything], etc. 

No, the current system is silly - the playoffs is what we all play for, right? Not including that in the top GM award somehow is silly.

 

He wont be losing the best defenseman to retirement because he does not have the best defenseman of the league, he will lose a great defender to retirement.  All I´m hearing is how Riga made killer moves and deserves to have their GM win the top-GM award,  but Frank who had at least 3 players who he drafted in the roster, made it into finals and won the cup,  0 votes.

 

 

[Advantage 2,891]

1 minute ago, jRuutu said:

No, the current system is silly - the playoffs is what we all play for, right? Not including that in the top GM award somehow is silly.

 

He wont be losing the best defenseman to retirement because he does not have the best defenseman of the league, he will lose a great defender to retirement.  All I´m hearing is how Riga made killer moves and deserves to have their GM win the top-GM award,  but Frank who had at least 3 players who he drafted in the roster, made it into finals and won the cup,  0 votes.

 

 

Everyone thought Hedgehog did a bit more to earn it this year.

 

Doesn't mean everyone thought Frank did a shit job in comparison.

[jRuutu 2,464]

18 minutes ago, Beketov said:

Not true at all. Just that when another team's GM makes huge moves and goes from 8th to 1st it makes a pretty big splash.

 

It's not that what Frank did can never be considered for the award. It can and has before. It's just that this season there was a better candidate.

Better candidate? Frank lead Quebec to cup victory for the first time in 20 seasons, built the team from last place in our division to making the playoffs and then making the finals 3 times in row and eventually to cup victory. I was there, how is that no worthy of a top-Gm award? The ideal moment to hand out that award would be after the cup winning year in my opinion.

 

 

[Beketov 9,021]

4 minutes ago, jRuutu said:

I did not say every cup winning GM deserves to win the top GM award or cup win = top GM.  All I´m saying is that maybe you should put some focus on the actual playoff performance as well, looks quite sily to me to award someone with the top-GM award just because his team played well in the regular season, even more silly if the GM who lead his team to all the way to finals and cup get 0 votes.

 

How is this current system any better anyways? Now you put so much weight into making moves and regular season that if you do some trades and have nice regular season = Top GM.

 

If you don´t do too many trades and have managed to put together nice core from the draft for example, you are the underdog or that is how it feels like now, why is that?

 

 

 

STHS handles the playoffs very randomly. We will consider having them involved in the decision but I cannot guarantee they ever will be.

 

This season a lot of weight was put there because a lot of moves were made and teams went from being bottom feeders to being top end. That doesn't mean every season goes that way. In fact more often than not it doesn't because it's rare for a GM to manage something like that.

 

That's how it feels like that to you this season because it happened that way to your GM; that's all it is. Let's say the situations are swapped and Frank got 8 votes with Hedgehog getting none. Riga players would feel that the voting unfairly favours drafting and keeping players long term than it does making moves. Every season is different and has different considerations. Take Riga out of the equation and Frank likely would have gotten votes. Frank could have been 2nd choice for literally every BOG member and he won't get any votes registered. No one is saying he didn't do well, he just wasn't the best choice this year.

[Advantage 2,891]

1 minute ago, jRuutu said:

Better candidate? Frank lead Quebec to cup victory for the first time in 20 seasons, built the team from last place in our division to making the playoffs and then making the finals 3 times in row and eventually to cup victory. I was there, how is that no worthy of a top-Gm award? The ideal moment to hand out that award would be after the cup winning year in my opinion.

 

 

You're running in circles here.

 

 

[hedgehog337 3,483]

3 minutes ago, Beketov said:

Frank could have been 2nd choice for literally every BOG member

 

So it was Frank who voted for Eagles?

[Beketov 9,021]

2 minutes ago, jRuutu said:

Better candidate? Frank lead Quebec to cup victory for the first time in 20 seasons, built the team from last place in our division to making the playoffs and then making the finals 3 times in row and eventually to cup victory. I was there, how is that no worthy of a top-Gm award? The ideal moment to hand out that award would be after the cup winning year in my opinion.

 

 

He did win it 2 years ago. Are you saying we should award the same GM every year because he managed to keep the same team competitive? 

 

I could argue this with you all day but the fact of the matter is that things change every single season. Simply keeping a team competitive doesn't mean you deserve the award every single season. Some years it definitely does but others it doesn't. This season there was a better candidate and all 9 votes (including Frank) agreed on that fact. If you disagree that's fine but the votes were cast for a reason and us explaining it in 10 different ways won't change that fact.

[Advantage 2,891]

Just now, hedgehog337 said:

 

So it was Frank who voted for Eagles?

I doubt it, though it's a private vote so not sure.

[Beketov 9,021]

Just now, hedgehog337 said:

 

So it was Frank who voted for Eagles?

Voting is private, I have no idea who voted for who.

[jRuutu 2,464]

8 minutes ago, ADV said:

People didn't see the new threads.  It happens.  It won't again, people should have got tagged.

 

We can certainly discuss it but with how bullshit the sim can be in the playoffs, I don't think it's the best indicator of the work a GM put in...especially since we don't want to just hand it to the Cup Winning team each year.

 

Not necessarily but we judge not just on your moves but on other factors including team improvement in standings and yes, the core you built...along with other factors.

 

It's not MY team of voters but instead of assuming and going on your little rants, actually ask us questions in a manner that doesn't insult.  Saying we don't do any work and get paid for it much less is ridiculous to some in there who actually work their asses off to try and better this league and for no pay within the BOG.  I'm not in my cozy chair, I am busting my ass trying to revamp the HOF, get caught up on HOF articles (I have wrote over 10,000 words in articles this week) and still contribute to the BOG where I can...just as one example.

 

If it were up to me we would have waited a day for more votes and tag those who didn't vote, but since it is a private voting I was not aware and the blue team decided they wanted it up because other members of the group had plenty of time to see it and vote on it.  

Should not happen in that level.

 

I know that, but looking at the big overall picture, the playoff performance should be taken into consideration in the top-GM award voting process.

 

Users like you do things and make things happen, but can you honestly say everybody in there do as much as they could or are as active they could or should be in whatever you guys are talking in BOG etc? Would also like to say that users like you are the ones who they should listen to, if the voting has not gone smoothly, wait a day or two. What difference does it make if the awards are up on Thursday or on Sunday?

[Advantage 2,891]

3 minutes ago, jRuutu said:

Should not happen in that level.

 

I know that, but looking at the big overall picture, the playoff performance should be taken into consideration in the top-GM award voting process.

 

Users like you do things and make things happen, but can you honestly say everybody in there do as much as they could or are as active they could or should be in whatever you guys are talking in BOG etc? Would also like to say that users like you are the ones who they should listen to, if the voting has not gone smoothly, wait a day or two. What difference does it make if the awards are up on Thursday or on Sunday?

It shouldn't.  You're right.

 

Perhaps it's something to discuss as Beketov said.

 

I can honestly say a lot of members do but some don't which is why we recently purged a few members out and added new members like Beaviss and TLO who should bring a fresh perspective to the group.  That's all we can do in those situations.

 

And perhaps, though a lot of people would complain about the awards being delayed too.  I understand wanting to keep on the schedule but to me another day would have been better.  I can't deny that.

Edited October 6, 2017 by ADV

[Beketov 9,021]

3 minutes ago, jRuutu said:

Should not happen in that level.

 

I know that, but looking at the big overall picture, the playoff performance should be taken into consideration in the top-GM award voting process.

 

Users like you do things and make things happen, but can you honestly say everybody in there do as much as they could or are as active they could or should be in whatever you guys are talking in BOG etc? Would also like to say that users like you are the ones who they should listen to, if the voting has not gone smoothly, wait a day or two. What difference does it make if the awards are up on Thursday or on Sunday?

1. Off-Seasons need to move forward or they'll go on forever.

2. Private voting means lack of knowledge on how many have voted except the person who set it up.

3. Nothing would ever get done if every BOG member needed to agree on everything.

 

As for those that may not do as much as is ideal for the BOG role; it's being worked on. A BOG reshuffle is currently happening to get new people in and people that aren't living up to the roll out.

[jRuutu 2,464]

8 minutes ago, Beketov said:

 

STHS handles the playoffs very randomly. We will consider having them involved in the decision but I cannot guarantee they ever will be.

 

This season a lot of weight was put there because a lot of moves were made and teams went from being bottom feeders to being top end. That doesn't mean every season goes that way. In fact more often than not it doesn't because it's rare for a GM to manage something like that.

 

That's how it feels like that to you this season because it happened that way to your GM; that's all it is. Let's say the situations are swapped and Frank got 8 votes with Hedgehog getting none. Riga players would feel that the voting unfairly favours drafting and keeping players long term than it does making moves. Every season is different and has different considerations. Take Riga out of the equation and Frank likely would have gotten votes. Frank could have been 2nd choice for literally every BOG member and he won't get any votes registered. No one is saying he didn't do well, he just wasn't the best choice this year.

Hopefully that happens.

 

Of course it hits bit more close to home when Quebec is involved, but I can honestly say that if Hedgehog would lead Riga to their first cup win in 20 seasons, he should win the top-GM award - no problem with that Or if any other GM leads their team to cup victory after a long period of time, should get the nod over someone who ´just´ had an great regular season, but playoffs did not for whatever reason go as well.

 

 

[jRuutu 2,464]

14 minutes ago, Beketov said:

He did win it 2 years ago. Are you saying we should award the same GM every year because he managed to keep the same team competitive? 

 

I could argue this with you all day but the fact of the matter is that things change every single season. Simply keeping a team competitive doesn't mean you deserve the award every single season. Some years it definitely does but others it doesn't. This season there was a better candidate and all 9 votes (including Frank) agreed on that fact. If you disagree that's fine but the votes were cast for a reason and us explaining it in 10 different ways won't change that fact.

No, but you guys make it sound like keeping the same roster together means you are not doing as good job as someone who simply puts a nice team together ´now´ by doing trades and moves. When the GM who keeps the roster together manages to finally win the cup, instead of awarding that - you guys award the one who just put a nice team together, but has not yet actually won the cup. If Riga wins the cup next year, they should absolutely award hedgehog with the top-Gm award, came too early in my opinion.

 

Frank should have not won it two years ago, should have been Millers award if we are going with the todays logic. Had a great regular season, but did not make it into finals.

 

Frank should have won it this year.

Edited October 6, 2017 by jRuutu

[jRuutu 2,464]

9 minutes ago, ADV said:

It shouldn't.  You're right.

 

Perhaps it's something to discuss as Beketov said.

 

I can honestly say a lot of members do but some don't which is why we recently purged a few members out and added new members like Beaviss and TLO who should bring a fresh perspective to the group.  That's all we can do in those situations.

 

And perhaps, though a lot of people would complain about the awards being delayed too.  I understand wanting to keep on the schedule but to me another day would have been better.  I can't deny that.

Should absolutely discuss about it and get new people in who might even inspire some of the less vocal users to full activity, hopefully positive things come out in result of that.

 

I can of course only talk about myself here, but for me it does not matter at all if the season starts 1 or 2 days late, regular season is too long when you think about the excitement of some of the games, could just double sim if needed to. Much rather have award ceremony with proper voting process behind it instead of opening 2 links of Quebec winning or losing a game.

 

 

 

[Advantage 2,891]

Just now, jRuutu said:

Should absolutely discuss about it and get new people in who might even inspire some of the less vocal users to full activity, hopefully positive things come out in result of that.

 

I can of course only talk about myself here, but for me it does not matter at all if the season starts 1 or 2 days late, regular season is too long when you think about the excitement of some of the games, could just double sim if needed to. Much rather have award ceremony with proper voting process behind it instead of opening 2 links of Quebec winning or losing a game.

 

 

 

I think anyone who does put a lot of work in wishes there were more people who saw it this way lol.

 

It's like a 100 M sprint to the regular season as soon as the playoffs end.

[jRuutu 2,464]

13 minutes ago, Beketov said:

1. Off-Seasons need to move forward or they'll go on forever.

2. Private voting means lack of knowledge on how many have voted except the person who set it up.

3. Nothing would ever get done if every BOG member needed to agree on everything.

 

As for those that may not do as much as is ideal for the BOG role; it's being worked on. A BOG reshuffle is currently happening to get new people in and people that aren't living up to the roll out.

1. True, but these awards are quite important for some, at least I enjoy seeing who won and what, if the voting did not go as planned on some parts, kinda ruins the whole thing.

 

2.  Should do something to that as well to make sure something like this never happens where some awards get 4 or 5 votes.

 

3. I get that, good reason to mix the group little bit if some users do less than others and are always against everything said. At some point the line must come where some user is just standing in the doorway and preventing VHL from progressing.

 

Looking forward to seeing what kind of results and improvements the new BOG manages to bring out!

[jRuutu 2,464]

4 minutes ago, ADV said:

I think anyone who does put a lot of work in wishes there were more people who saw it this way lol.

 

It's like a 100 M sprint to the regular season as soon as the playoffs end.

Does not matter at all if we start the season on Monday or on Thursday.

 

Only better for the league overall when results on whatever people are working on are accurate and well done, also hopefully less likely to see people burn out from doing so much in short period of time.

[der meister 3,183]

13 hours ago, Frank said:

I'll be sending you my ballot in 5-10 mins max. 

 

How are we looking on VHLM results?

[Frank 5,205]

1 minute ago, der meister said:

 

How are we looking on VHLM results?

Waiting on gm's should be tonight hopefully.

[Kendrick 4,741]

@jRuutu I'm interested to see who your own GM. Maybe ask him why he didn't vote for himself and maybe take that into consideration? It's one thing to argue things to death, but when the guy you are arguing for clearly disagrees, you may want to re-think.

[Gooningitup 1,290]

30 minutes ago, Frank said:

Waiting on gm's should be tonight hopefully.

 Should just post my votes lol only one done

[Gudnason 607]

5 minutes ago, Gooningitup said:

 Should just post my votes lol only one done

 

I'm not going to consider Sasky's offer if you didn't vote #Gudnason4PlayoffsMVP