POLL: SBA<->EFL welfare system to VHL

[boubabi 4,725]

You guys speak like it really was "new members"

 

No they are not. They are "recycled" members that just had no interest in the VHL for whatever reasons. Technically, those "members" are all "ex's".

 

Loyal VHL members have shown and explained their disinterest of the league. Member retention should be VHL's number 1 priority, because thats the source of the problem. The VHL concept is overdone and needs to re invent himself to attract (and retain) members.

 

All that mindset that you guys have is pointless if we attract members in the problematic VHL (and all sim league in general)

[jRuutu 2,464]

10 minutes ago, philthethrill81 said:

 

That idea has helped this place run for nearly 60 seasons, but we need to be open to change. We won't last if we keep on chugging along as is.

 

Unless you can come up with some other way to attract new members, 100% it's worth it.  You shouldn't be asking what will happen if we make these changes, as there is no telling what will come of that, but rather what will happen if we don't make this change, or one of equal size.

I agree, but I fear this idea is put into action just to buy some extra time. If and when that time runs out, going to be that much harder to come out from a system like the new idea promotes.

 

They had this 2nd player system here, some loved it and some were really against it. They went and did it anyways, but here we are - it´s what 7 or something seasons later and the whole system is almost removed. This new idea is on the same level of bad.

 

If you want to truly bring in more users, get rid of the whole PT system and give everybody a change to claim the 6 tpe from activity check = write your name into one thread and you are good to go. Then on top of that give a change to earn 2 or 3 TPe from 200 word media article or small graphic piece. They have similar system in GOMHL and it works.

 

If you are going down this road, go in hard - don´t half ass it.

 

 

Edited January 2, 2018 by jRuutu

[Advantage 2,891]

Glad bringing this up a while back in the BOG is finally paying off.

[jRuutu 2,464]

3 minutes ago, hedgehog337 said:

 

What's wrong with two lines though? Let them all to have reasons to cheer for in stats wise. It's not like we should implement a RL hockey to a virtual sim league lol.

2 line system don´t really work for the hardcore users who could be in here for the long run. You need to be as close to the real thing as possible, at the moment VHL is not as close it could be.

[boubabi 4,725]

1 minute ago, jRuutu said:

 You need to be as close to the real thing as possible, at the moment VHL is not as close it could be.

I disagree with that statement

[hedgehog337 3,483]

3 minutes ago, jRuutu said:

2 line system don´t really work for the hardcore users who could be in here for the long run. You need to be as close to the real thing as possible, at the moment VHL is not as close it could be.

 

I'm wondering how much hardcore users we have in sim leagues.

Edited January 2, 2018 by hedgehog337

[jRuutu 2,464]

5 minutes ago, Kendrick said:

Writing articles for money is an extra step. All that does is make it so your PT gets turned into money which gets turned into a claim for TPE. Why not skip that step and do our system where you claim for your work right away? They also have all 4 lines and I went inactive on the 4th line because I would get 6 minutes a game. If a GM doesnt like you, they can hide you in the lineup.

 

Incorrect though. What works in the SBA works in the SBA because its a sim leagues foundation, not anything to do with basketball. Actually in the VHL you can play with 6 people, something you can do in the SBA as well.

I don´t personally write articles for money too often,  maybe 10 articles in the last 3 real life years, but for example the PT system in SHL is actually a lot easier than having to write 500 words here.  Why not bring something similar here? Surely at least worth a try.

 

If you are active, there is some team in the league that has a place for you. Active players are always wanted, just gotta let your GM know and let him or her work a deal that puts you into the position you want to be in.

 

If you get hardcore hockey fans here and they see that you roll on with 6 players on teams and rest are bots, I´m willing to bet the first reaction is not: Yes! I can score a lot of points. It´s closer to: Ok!? Where are rest of the players?

 

 

 

 

[Kendrick 4,741]

6 minutes ago, jRuutu said:

I agree, but I fear this idea is put into action just to buy some extra time. If and when that time runs out, going to be that much harder to come out from a system like the new idea promotes.

 

They had this 2nd player system here, some loved it and some were really against it. They went and did it anyways, but here we are - it´s what 7 or something seasons later and the whole system is almost removed. This new idea is on the same level of bad.

You act like it was 50/50 for that. Very very rarely have I seen something get introduced here with out a majority vote. In fact in the BOG if it has a 50/50 split it isn't good enough to be introduced.

[jRuutu 2,464]

1 minute ago, hedgehog337 said:

 

I'm wondering how much hardcore users we have in sim leagues.

But those are the ones who are more likely to come over and join a sim league?

[jRuutu 2,464]

4 minutes ago, boubabi said:

I disagree with that statement

Why? Surely it´s better to have as many players in each team as possible, get that real hockey feeling in there?  Even 3 lines would be something.

[boubabi 4,725]

Just now, jRuutu said:

But those are the ones who are more likely to come over and join a sim league?

False. If you mean "hardcore hockey fan" maybe

 

But multiple longterm users here arent necessarily hardcore hockey fans

[jRuutu 2,464]

1 minute ago, Kendrick said:

You act like it was 50/50 for that. Very very rarely have I seen something get introduced here with out a majority vote. In fact in the BOG if it has a 50/50 split it isn't good enough to be introduced.

Fine, majority liked the idea - some not so. Either way, it´s close to being removed.

 

Just like now by the looks of it, majority is liking the idea - some not so.

[hedgehog337 3,483]

1 minute ago, jRuutu said:

But those are the ones who are more likely to come over and join a sim league?

 

I refuse to believe that every TPE whore is a hardcore hockey fan. I mean I was one of them when I joined the sim leagues and I never was a hardcore fan at anything.

[Kendrick 4,741]

Just now, jRuutu said:

I don´t personally write articles for money too often,  maybe 10 articles in the last 3 real life years, but for example the PT system in SHL is actually a lot easier than having to write 500 words here.  Why not bring something similar here? Surely at least worth a try.

 

If you are active, there is some team in the league that has a place for you. Active players are always wanted, just gotta let your GM know and let him or her work a deal that puts you into the position you want to be in.

 

If you get hardcore hockey fans here and they see that you roll on with 6 players on teams and rest are bots, I´m willing to bet the first reaction is not: Yes! I can score a lot of points. It´s closer to: Ok!? Where are rest of the players?

It is a lot easier in regards to work ethic over there though. I didn't do any writing or anything for the past 6-7 years of my players career. Just posted in activity checks and claimed training from contract money. That's essentially the welfare system in which you so hotly debate all the time. So you want that over here? You want the money system for people so that they can just simply check in for 2 minutes?

 

Don't let the roster sizes fool you about the SHL. Half the players are inactives just coasting out their 12 year careers over there. It's not like they are just miles ahead in regards to active members/roster sizes. Their system ins't 100% successful either. The difference is they have more eyes on the board and thus more discussion because of the people. You build it, they will come.

[jRuutu 2,464]

1 minute ago, boubabi said:

False. If you mean "hardcore hockey fan" maybe

 

But multiple longterm users here arent necessarily hardcore hockey fans

No I mean if you try to get people join a hockey league, people who watch hockey are more likely to come and join. If you put together a tennis league now, I´m not joining it. Someone who plays Tennis, might at least come over and check it out.

 

If you in that Tennis league use beach balls instead of real tennis balls, those hardcore users might not be too interested. Just like here with having only 2 lines in each team.

[Kendrick 4,741]

1 minute ago, jRuutu said:

Fine, majority liked the idea - some not so. Either way, it´s close to being removed.

 

Just like now by the looks of it, majority is liking the idea - some not so.

Which was my point, it wasn't 50/50. If a majority agrees it will most likely get more than one look. You just happen to be the side that disagrees. At the same time though, if we continue on with our current base the way it is, we will shut down. Change is good, something people seem to claim we dont do.

[boubabi 4,725]

5 minutes ago, jRuutu said:

Why? Surely it´s better to have as many players in each team as possible, get that real hockey feeling in there?  Even 3 lines would be something.

Because that's not the VHL's goal. We accept the fact that we use a sim engine and it's not representative of the real NHL.

 

I would rather sell the VHL concept more as a role playing game then a hockey game. If a hockey fan wants to play hockey, he will go play on NHL 18 or outside on a rink. The VHL kinda targets "nerds" that wants to have a online role playing experience that is about hockey. If we try to sell the concept of hockey for the VHL, it's straight up misinformation 

 

I think it's honest to target our possible audience as "hockey fan", but there's more to it.  

Edited January 2, 2018 by boubabi

[Da Trifecta 1,896]

The real problem is that people are lazy as shit and don't want to write anymore. That is the real reason for our problem. It's not a member issue but people sign up to these leagues thinking it can be an easy ride. We have seen over the years of what hard work does and how it pays off.

 

Here is an idea @jRuutu and @hedgehog337. How about instead of trying to get us to adapt that welfare system that you seem to covet so much, why not help find new ways for people to earn TPE that don't involve more laziness? I mean there are plenty of things that can be done and brought up in a manner that doesn't seem like each and every league is getting lazier and lazier. I mean if this is adapted in all PT leagues, what will be the end game? We write 1 article somewhere and suddenly we can claim it as TPE in like multiple leagues? Leagues were built on you actually having to do work. Now all you guys want is a quick "here give me my PT because I did something somewhere else."

 

We should push for ACTIVITY and not a quick way to earn TPE. That should realistically be the ultimate goal.

[Kendrick 4,741]

5 minutes ago, jRuutu said:

Why? Surely it´s better to have as many players in each team as possible, get that real hockey feeling in there?  Even 3 lines would be something.

Because in real life being on the third line is an active role. In the VHL it means you are less minutes and are putting your efforts to waste in a sense. There is no badge of honour in the VHL for being on a third line. You're here for fun, not to stake claim to the "best agitator role".

[jRuutu 2,464]

2 minutes ago, hedgehog337 said:

 

I refuse to believe that every TPE whore is a hardcore hockey fan. I mean I was one of them when I joined the sim leagues and I never was a hardcore fan at anything.

Sure, but liking the actual sport goes a long way.  People who like the sport more than likely might be the ones who join, if they see the place is not too close to real hockey team and career experience, they might not be here for long

[Advantage 2,891]

For the record at least 4 of the EFL BOG members have already said they'd absolutely enjoy having a player here but just don't know what to write about when it comes to hockey and have said they'd definitely be active if this went through.

 

That's just the BOG...

 

This is absolutely the right move.

[Kendrick 4,741]

Just now, ADV said:

For the record at least 4 of the EFL BOG members have already said they'd absolutely enjoy having a player here but just don't know what to write about when it comes to hockey and have said they'd definitely be active if this went through.

 

That's just the BOG...

 

This is absolutely the right move.

When leaders from one sim league (who are committed discussion leaders as well) state their interest in a sim leagues goal (not just a hockey sim league), we should listen.

[Advantage 2,891]

1 minute ago, KGR said:

The real problem is that people are lazy as shit and don't want to write anymore. That is the real reason for our problem. It's not a member issue but people sign up to these leagues thinking it can be an easy ride. We have seen over the years of what hard work does and how it pays off.

 

Here is an idea @jRuutu and @hedgehog337. How about instead of trying to get us to adapt that welfare system that you seem to covet so much, why not help find new ways for people to earn TPE that don't involve more laziness? I mean there are plenty of things that can be done and brought up in a manner that doesn't seem like each and every league is getting lazier and lazier. I mean if this is adapted in all PT leagues, what will be the end game? We write 1 article somewhere and suddenly we can claim it as TPE in like multiple leagues? Leagues were built on you actually having to do work. Now all you guys want is a quick "here give me my PT because I did something somewhere else."

 

We should push for ACTIVITY and not a quick way to earn TPE. That should realistically be the ultimate goal.

That's actually the opposite of what Ruutu wants lol.

 

But either way..we have to adapt with the new generation of sim leaguers...and they are lazy.  Otherwise, we will be left behind.

 

We can still cater to the more active but catering a little more to those who don't have the time to be as active isn't necessarily a bad thing.

[boubabi 4,725]

Since when they have to write about hockey ? They can legit just create a dragon,s lair story with their player and it would work. The choice of their topic is pretty free, and that's just a lame excuse 

[jRuutu 2,464]

4 minutes ago, Kendrick said:

It is a lot easier in regards to work ethic over there though. I didn't do any writing or anything for the past 6-7 years of my players career. Just posted in activity checks and claimed training from contract money. That's essentially the welfare system in which you so hotly debate all the time. So you want that over here? You want the money system for people so that they can just simply check in for 2 minutes?

 

Don't let the roster sizes fool you about the SHL. Half the players are inactives just coasting out their 12 year careers over there. It's not like they are just miles ahead in regards to active members/roster sizes. Their system ins't 100% successful either. The difference is they have more eyes on the board and thus more discussion because of the people. You build it, they will come.

Not everybody can buy the max training every week with contract money, they have to do the PT´s also. I absolutely would like the SHL system to come here, there is no way you pay a welfare user enough money so he or she can buy whatever training they put into store here.

 

Same goes to the system and roster size, they have  at least 3 full lines on each teams over in SHL. Give me that every day of the week over 2 lines in each team. Sure, not everybody is active, but neither are users here and they wont be with this new idea. Not perfect, but closer to the real experience.