Regression vs forced retirement

[Gooningitup 1,290]

I brought this up in an article don't want to derail it more so ill post this here. Why not make like a regression system vs forced retirement. I get people get bored of their player so they are happy to retire but what about those who would rather aim for record books. or people who just want to have fun an become a good player rather than constantly losing there guy before he becomes very good. It seems the league if u want to be a real stud or HOF u gotta build a strong offensive guy because if you build a solid all around guy it will take too long and you will be a lower tier guy who never gets the proper attention. Just a thought but maybe do a regression system vs a forced retirement.

 

Maybe like a certain number of TPE after a certain number of years the longer you fight regression the harder it gets to be a star till u eventually have to retire of old age like NHLers do.

[NotAVHLM-GM 1,858]

Its mostly because of longevity of the league (bring in fresh players) and maintaning league records.

Trust me I wanted a longer career with my past player but it wouldnt make much sense from a league point of view. We already have the regression to be fought in the last three seasons

[scoop 3,447]

I know this has been discussed before, and it seems we never really get anywhere near considering removing forced retirement (or moving it back a couple season), but I think it's something to consider and seriously discuss. I know it's something that has always been in the league, but we expanded the league to ten teams (not that having ten teams means we need longer careers; that's an example of a big change that the league has made).

 

Right now, depreciation is 3%, 5%, and 7% in your 6th, 7th, and 8th seasons, respectively. Some people still retire with massive amounts of points on their player, and I feel like maybe they should be rewarded more for getting so many teeps. But also we don't want players sticking around too long, so depreciation could be something like 13%, 19%, 25% in your 9th, 10th, and 11th seasons, to really detract players who don't absolutely want it. Those who choose to face such high depreciation numbers could choose to do so and suffer the drop off in their stats.

[Gooningitup 1,290]

Its mostly because of longevity of the league (bring in fresh players) and maintaning league records.

Trust me I wanted a longer career with my past player but it wouldnt make much sense from a league point of view. We already have the regression to be fought in the last three seasons

 

so im even less likely to make the HOF cuz ill regress by the time my player actually gets some offensive skill greattttt. i dunno just my opinion as a noobie

[NotAVHLM-GM 1,858]

Nope your chances do not diminish. Everyone has the same length of career. You just need to remain active throughout your career to be as good as possible. The HoF isnt something you get easily, but the chances for it are there

[Victor 11,009]

Yeah just a couple weeks ago a first gen (STZ) got inducted into the HOF. He started from 0 TPE and that worked out alright.

Chasing records is fine, I see your point, but after 40 seasons that's a bit unfair to players in the past. It's too late to make such a change.

[boubabi 4,725]

Consistency is the key

[scoop 3,447]

Chasing records is fine, I see your point, but after 40 seasons that's a bit unfair to players in the past. It's too late to make such a change.

I strongly disagree. It's unfair to current players that all of the S1 players came into the VHL on equal footing (ie when a rookie enters the VHL, they have to go up against players who already have several hundreds of TPE). Records are very relative, anyway. Expansion changed the scope of the league by thinning out the talent. Scoring was up from S19-S22 or so because teams like New York, Calgary, and Vasteras were playing goalies such as Vince Stephan, Fernando Garcia Jr., and other scrubs. But the guys early on had it much easier, and that's evidenced by the records.

 

If the depreciation beyond an 8th season is extreme, players would have to choose between an extended career and recreating a player for whom the TPE that is being earned is actually improving a player, not just trying to keep a player from being eaten away.

Edited August 4, 2014 by Hustles

[Victor 11,009]

That is not as hard a choice as you make it out to be - most players will extend their careers by at least one season. There will be even more veterans for rookies to go against and even less rookies because less recreates. Teams' rebuilds will be fucked up, regardless of when this would theoretically be implemented and a likely decrease of league parity due to contenders not losing players. Yeah, nah.

[Gooningitup 1,290]

Heres another few ideas.

 

1st one would be keep forced retirement an add maybe 2 seasons and keep regression at last 3 years like it is but maybe a bit steeper.

 

2nd one would be allow players to buy extra career years max of 3 seasons. 5mill or so a season those 1st and 2nd season have 9% and 3rd year 11%

 

3rd. Make a new record book for post forced retirement that way you keep things fair for the older players an have a record book for those who can keep there careers going longer. obviously it will be tough to fight regression more when u have a limit on TPE per week. so youd have to want it more like hustles said

[Devise 4,475]

I'm with Victor. Yes Streetlight, the records from Season 1 are going to be nearly impossible to break and yes the league parity has decreased the amount of scoring. But Mike found his way onto the top 25 list after a 70 goal season not that long ago. That was AFTER we expanded teams as well. \We still play the same number of games a season, so even if the comparisons to seasons long past are relative, it's still a comparison that actually can work. The moment we let players go longer careers we may as well just ignore our history.

 

I also think it's good to have a legacy in the league that appears untouchable. It happens in real sports too you know. You think anybody is touching Gretzky in hockey records? Probably not, but that is the point. The legacy of the VHL is the very reason we still exist today. It deserves to remain honored. If someone can somehow or some way get god like enough in the sim to break one of those records it should feel like it was the most earth shattering event to happen in the VHL in decades. Even just breaking the top 25 list or getting similar stats/comparisons to some of those old elite VHL players is one of the biggest achievements your player can make. The moment we break all that is the moment we just cater to constant "new" records and achievements so that people can just come in sign up and easily see their players on the top of record books. 

[scoop 3,447]

That is not as hard a choice as you make it out to be - most players will extend their careers by at least one season. There will be even more veterans for rookies to go against and even less rookies because less recreates. Teams' rebuilds will be fucked up, regardless of when this would theoretically be implemented and a likely decrease of league parity due to contenders not losing players. Yeah, nah.

Contenders may not lose players but they are keeping guys who have to be paid more money than their TPE is worth.

[scoop 3,447]

But Mike found his way onto the top 25 list after a 70 goal season not that long ago. That was AFTER we expanded teams as well.

Season records can definitely be touched, I'm not arguing against that. And increasing the career length of players will have little to no impact in that regard.

[Devise 4,475]

Season records can definitely be touched, I'm not arguing against that. And increasing the career length of players will have little to no impact in that regard.

 

That isn't true. Look at the league right now. Goalie dominance is being won by a rookie because so many of the "top end" players both at goalie and on forward have since retired. What happens if a Tukio or a LeBeau was able to stick around one more season but everyone else still decided to retire? You end up with a player with attributes and TPE that is so god like he could very well shatter records because his player is involved in a version of the VHL he simply shouldn't. 

 

Because players would have the choice to retire like normal or stick around, your basically allowing them to separate from their core. Generally speaking a draft class can produce on average 2-4 elite level players at 900+ career TPE. Just by the nature of first gens who make it, and recreates who always end up hitting numbers like that. If the majority of that draft class retires as normal and one player sticks it out, he's leaps and bounds above the competition of the current VHL. So unless depreciation was like, ungodly, like 20 percent, they'd still be so much better than the league they are competing in. 

[scoop 3,447]

That isn't true. Look at the league right now. Goalie dominance is being won by a rookie because so many of the "top end" players both at goalie and on forward have since retired. What happens if a Tukio or a LeBeau was able to stick around one more season but everyone else still decided to retire? You end up with a player with attributes and TPE that is so god like he could very well shatter records because his player is involved in a version of the VHL he simply shouldn't. 

 

Because players would have the choice to retire like normal or stick around, your basically allowing them to separate from their core. Generally speaking a draft class can produce on average 2-4 elite level players at 900+ career TPE. Just by the nature of first gens who make it, and recreates who always end up hitting numbers like that. If the majority of that draft class retires as normal and one player sticks it out, he's leaps and bounds above the competition of the current VHL. So unless depreciation was like, ungodly, like 20 percent, they'd still be so much better than the league they are competing in. 

What I'm suggesting is that we make depreciation beyond the 8th season be such that players CAN'T improve, but can only try to (and fail to) keep up with their current attributes.Tukio was already at 99 in everything. If Higgins had wanted to keep him around, at 13% depreciation, those 99's drop to 86. That's equivalent to 48 TPE per attribute. With eight attributes depreciating for goalies, that's 384 TPE.

Edited August 4, 2014 by Hustles

[Devise 4,475]

What I'm suggesting is that we make depreciation beyond the 8th season be such that players CAN'T improve, but can only try to (and fail to) keep up with their current attributes.Tukio was already at 99 in everything. If Higgins had wanted to keep him around, at 13% depreciation, those 99's drop to 86. That's equivalent to 48 TPE per attribute. With eight attributes depreciating for goalies, that's 384 TPE.

 

Higgins was 99 in everything but at about the halfway point of his final season after he handled depreciation he was earning TPE with nothing to spend it on. Ergo, he just won't add to attributes he doesn't care about (like Leadership) in future updates. While the new player store should remove some TPE inflation, it is high enough that a player could get to the point where they end up banking over 120+ TPE for the attributes they care about and by the halfway point of an extra season would have depreciation handled and still be the most elite player in the league...

[scoop 3,447]

Higgins was 99 in everything but at about the halfway point of his final season after he handled depreciation he was earning TPE with nothing to spend it on. Ergo, he just won't add to attributes he doesn't care about (like Leadership) in future updates. While the new player store should remove some TPE inflation, it is high enough that a player could get to the point where they end up banking over 120+ TPE for the attributes they care about and by the halfway point of an extra season would have depreciation handled and still be the most elite player in the league...

Let's use an offensive forward as an example. Let's say someone wants to maintain attributes of 70 ST, 90 SK, 90 SC, 70 PA, 90 PH, 80 DF. That's a 350 TPE build. At 13% depreciation, they would lose 140 TPE. And that isn't an elite player build.

 

 

If a goalie wanted to maintain 90 in every depreciable attribute, that'd be a loss of 34 TPE/attribute, equating to 272 TPE lost. You're not going to get 272 TPE in a single season.

[scoop 3,447]

But that's just in the first extra season. If depreciation went up to 19% for a 10th season, maintaining a 90 in a single attribute would take 44 TPE (after being brought down to 73). And you wouldn't be banking TPE during your 9th season, because you'd still be busy trying to regain your attributes from your 13% depreciation.

[Da Trifecta 1,902]

I agree with Victor. Things should remain intact. They have been that way for 40 seasons and things have been just fine during that. Sure leagues should evolve and do different things, but this is not one of them.

[sterling 2,000]

At this point it wouldn't really be beneficial to make a change like this.

[scoop 3,447]

At this point it wouldn't really be beneficial to make a change like this.

Are you implying that there was a point in the league when it would have been beneficial to make such a change?

 

If so, what is it about now, as opposed to this other time, that makes it not beneficial?

Edited August 4, 2014 by Hustles

[sterling 2,000]

Are you implying that there was a point in the league when it would have been beneficial to make such a change?

At the beginning.

[scoop 3,447]

So if it would have been better for the league to have started with this, why is it something that it wouldn't be beneficial to work on implementing?

[sterling 2,000]

So if it would have been better for the league to have started with this, why is it something that it wouldn't be beneficial to work on implementing?

Because it's been 40 seasons now and it's a pretty good system without any reason to change.

[sterling 2,000]

I'm also implying that if you care so much about it you could make your own league with different rules than the ones we have here. It would fuck with a lot of things, too much hassle imo.