Disappointment.

[Plate 285]

I'm just gonna vent how I feel about the Jake Thunder trophy in here. This is not a personal attack against @Rin, congrats on the victory.

The VHLE voting this year was a joke. I don't know how the process works. I don't care either. Jordan Bennett, my player, is the first and only player in the HISTORY of the VHLE to win 4 championships. You can argue it's because I was inactive for a while. In truth I was inactive definitely for one of them. But for as long as I've been on Cologne, I've been relatively active and have made posts in their Discord as a member. 

This isn't the coping trophy. I don't care about how bad the team was. Oslo is dogshit. Rin, for all intents and purposes, played well on that team. Did they play as the best fucking defenseman in the whole league????? NO, are you kidding me?? If you are on a bad team, and the team is bad, your player MIGHT ALSO BE PART OF THE PROBLEM. I don't know how the VHLE can sit there and twiddle their thumbs while this trophy sits in the palm of a player that does not deserve it. From a sim perspective, a symbolic perspective or any perspective with people that have eyes this is a complete disgrace. 

It's cool giving a new gen a trophy. But let's face it, this is a washed attempt at the VHLE GM community "doing something cool" and "giving a new gen" a new opportunity to hopefully "stick around". Well, maybe if the VHLE didn't suck in execution we wouldn't need these PR stunts dedicated to new members. I will be contending this award until it's given to literally anyone more deserving. I can't help but feel like this whole situation is just something to make a new player feel more welcomed to the league, and not actually an award given to the best VHLE defenseman. 

That player, was Jordan Bennett. The best defenseman in VHLE history. If the Cologne Express is a train, Bennett was the conductor, and @cl4rk is the rest of the fucking train. Make @Sjin the general manager of the rail company.

I promise to be annoying about this until the solution gets resolved. No matter what it takes.



 

[Daniel Janser 1,981]

JFYI: Rin aka Sonnet is a veteran of this league and came back from their hiatus recently. There might be other motives to award the Thunder award to Rin, but trying to molly coddle a 'first gen' into retention is certainly not one of them.

[Nykonax 1,550]

idk seems like rin has a pretty decent argument. She has points on 40% of Oslo goals vs. Bennets 32%, has only 4 less goals, but also 20 more hits and 150 more SB's. So not much less offensive production with insane defensive numbers.

Think the only argument is whether she deserves it cause his team sucks and numbers are artificially inflated, but she blocked 8.7% of shots against her team, while Bennet blocked 6.1% against.

I think its close for sure

Edited January 4 by Nykonax

[Enorama 1,980]

Funny that Fong is saying exactly the same things about the same trophy  

 

When an award is highly contested, multiple people are going to feel slighted when they don't get it. Award voting was 2-1-1-1 here, so very close. Feel free to quiz the individual GMs and why they voted how they did if you feel like that'll give you closure.

 

Also 0 of the nominees on the ballot are first gens.

[Rin 138]

16 hours ago, Plate said:

This isn't the coping trophy. I don't care about how bad the team was.

 

 

I'm not a first gen. This is my third player.

Edited January 4 by Rin

[Rin 138]

14 hours ago, Nykonax said:

He has points on 40% of Oslo goals

 

She

[Plate 285]

I just think there are other defensemen more rewarding and it's baffling how "close" people think this conversation is. I only mentioned the first gen thing because it says first gen on the player in the player page. 

[Daniel Janser 1,981]

24 minutes ago, Plate said:

I just think there are other defensemen more rewarding and it's baffling how "close" people think this conversation is. I only mentioned the first gen thing because it says first gen on the player in the player page. 

It is admittedly misleading. One counts as a first gen, if one has had not a player in the past three seasons (i.e. roughly six months). So while technically a first gen, Rin is a veteran of the league...

EDIT: Adding to the confusion is that Rin used to have a different login in his previous incarnations. So while Rin for all intents and purposes IS a first gen, the user behind that handle is not.

And a poll which ends 2-1-1-1 is indeed a close conversation, regardless of what you think the winner should be. Obviously the voting comittee, made up from the VHLE GM's, has a different opinion than you. Defenders are difficult to rate in the first place imo. I mean what are you looking at? Checks? Shots blocked? Production? PIM? 

Checks and PIM are directly related: i.e. the more a player checks, the higher the chance to serve time in the sin bin. So if more checks = better and less PIM = better you are in a pickle. Production should not be the primary determination of awards for D imo. A player in a team who gets blasted every night by their opponents has a higher chance to rack up shots blocked (example VHL record person Creed with over 400 sb in Chicago team who managed to win 6 games in regulation in S82). so if shots blocked are your go-to indicator for excellence you will find them in the bottom feeder teams. And we all know that +/- ratings are more of a team stat and outdated for the evaluation of how good a player is...

So far you only made the argument for Bennet that they have won four titles (apparently singlehandedly) and is allegedly the best D in the history of the VHLE (without further elaborating why you think this is the case, I would argue it is Nagy AL)

Edited January 5 by Daniel Janser

[Gustav 6,100]

Yeah tbh I see nothing wrong with this: 

On 1/4/2024 at 3:44 AM, Nykonax said:

idk seems like rin has a pretty decent argument. She has points on 40% of Oslo goals vs. Bennets 32%, has only 4 less goals, but also 20 more hits and 150 more SB's. So not much less offensive production with insane defensive numbers.

Think the only argument is whether she deserves it cause his team sucks and numbers are artificially inflated, but she blocked 8.7% of shots against her team, while Bennet blocked 6.1% against.

I think its close for sure

 

 

This is the sort of discussion that would be in a BoG award post and it’s a good comparison of the two players. Number inflation on bad teams is real and I’ve voted against players with “better” numbers because of it. But if someone laid out this case and said “I’m voting for Rin,” I would at the very least understand why. 
 

It’s got nothing to do with first gen stuff (at least it shouldn’t; I’ve never seen or done anything specifically favoring a first gen in VHL awards) and winning championships (especially in seasons that aren’t even being voted on) generally has nothing to do with awards given for regular season performance. We have something else (playoff MVP) for that. 

[DarkSpyro 754]

On 1/4/2024 at 1:56 AM, Plate said:

voting this year was a joke

It is pretty much just a biased joke every season and believe me there are many many people who have been screwed over a lot worse. All I can really say is now you know how the league actually is behind the scenes. Sadly when you speak up against any league bias, the league will keep you down and sleight you from more awards in the future. It’s definitely NOT okay but as you’ve just witnessed for yourself; multiple people will gang up on for having an opinion.

 

Welcome to the VHL

 

Edit: Also the voting was sooooo close that it’s hardly a landslide for someone who doesn’t deserve it. In the end it came down to a couple people agreeing over something in the BoG, not the entire committee voting for a single person (been there, it happens.)

Edited January 5 by DarkSpyro

[Spartan 3,997]

5 minutes ago, DarkSpyro said:

It is pretty much just a biased joke every season and believe me there are many many people who have been screwed over a lot worse. All I can really say is now you know how the league actually is behind the scenes. Sadly when you speak up against any league bias, the league will keep you down and sleight you from more awards in the future. It’s definitely NOT okay but as you’ve just witnessed for yourself; multiple people will gang up on for having an opinion.

 

Welcome to the VHL

Just a tad bit of an overreaction here I'd say. This voting was done by E GMs. M voting is M GMs. Most VHL award voting is the BoG which sees new faces join every 2-3 seasons with no commissioner votes. I don't think there's a systemic "fuck that member" baked into the voting system at any level.

 

And I don't see where anyone is ganging up on anyone. People in this thread have explained that Rin is not a first gen to clear up that area, and also discussed their own opinions on how close the award was. The fact that he's won 4 championships now is definitely does not support your idea that the league is holding him down.

 

Could this frustration possibly stem from your goalie not being eligible for RotY awards due to how many times you were played during your first season? And then not qualifying for the award when you became the starter? Nothing in this thread is anti-Plate but this suddenly flies in with no examples or references.

[DarkSpyro 754]

8 minutes ago, Spartan said:

I don't think there's a systemic "fuck that member" baked into the voting system at any level.

You’re free to feel that way, but I have felt quite the opposite for a few years now (ever since my first player, seriously this is nothing new lol)

 

8 minutes ago, Spartan said:

Could this frustration possibly stem from your goalie not being eligible for RotY awards due to how many times you were played during your first season? And then not qualifying for the award when you became the starter?

It’s probably just a culmination of MANY different examples, such as S89 when a certain someone witnessed a landslide of votes all towards 1 user, and 0 for the other 2 nominees, when it definitely should not have been the case. 

8 minutes ago, Spartan said:

Just a tad bit of an overreaction here I'd say

Also yes, but I figured this entire thread was so what’s the difference lol 

and no I’m not being anti-anyone, just able to relate to how Plate is feeling right now.

Edited January 5 by DarkSpyro

[Beketov 8,642]

16 minutes ago, DarkSpyro said:

You’re free to feel that way, but I have felt quite the opposite for a few years now (ever since my first player, seriously this is nothing new lol)

Of note the member associated with a specific player is never mentioned in the award voting and it’s incredibly uncommon for people to remember the exact member who has control of each player so the ability for people to intentionally “attack” a specific member by not voting for them is incredibly limited.

 

Has it happened in the past? Almost guaranteed it has at some point but it’s far from a widespread issue.

[hylands 838]

to solve this issue we will now give all awards to rory

[Spartan 3,997]

13 minutes ago, DarkSpyro said:

It’s probably just a culmination of MANY different examples, such as S89 when a certain someone witnessed a landslide of votes all towards 1 user, and 0 for the other 2 nominees, when it definitely should not have been the case. 

 

I assume its this one where Wallob had a significant advantage in every category except shutouts. Also went on to almost win the community MOP vote with no other goalies being recognized. Can't see how you say the voting shouldn't have gone the way it did if the winner almost won the community vote for best VHL player as well.

 

 

15 minutes ago, DarkSpyro said:

Also yes, but I figured this entire thread was so what’s the difference lol 

and no I’m not being anti-anyone, just able to relate to how Plate is feeling right now.

That's fair, but I think there's a pretty clear difference between empathizing with someone who feels slighted vs agreeing with the notion that the league targets certain members ( right before they put out a post complaining about being targeted). I personally would have gone either Reingaard or Bennett if I was involved in the voting, but it's definitely more of a toss up than usual because of how there wasn't a single exceptional defenseman like there usually is. I just don't see the point in tricking yourself or others into thinking the league is out to get you. Just because someone doesn't agree with your line of thinking doesn't mean they hate you forever and will go out of their way to screw you over.

[twists 276]

1 minute ago, hylands said:

to solve this issue we will now give all awards to rory

 

I vote for participation trophies

[Spartan 3,997]

Just now, twists said:

 

I vote for participation trophies

Can I get a consolation championship win

[Daniel Janser 1,981]

1 minute ago, Spartan said:

Can I get a consolation championship win

you certainly gave everything one could give to earn it

 

And I do not say that to mock you (okay maybe a tiny bit) but as a recognition how good you manage Moscow and were just not lucky with the dice rolls (so to speak).

[twists 276]

2 minutes ago, Spartan said:

Can I get a consolation championship win

 

no ur a bad GM

[KaleebtheMighty 1,424]

[Nykonax 1,550]

On 1/5/2024 at 11:49 AM, Spartan said:

Can I get a consolation championship win

You can get like 5 of them