Decrease Teams Increase Roster Sizes

[Kendrick 4,741]

If we contract can we get rid of Vasteras! God

[Frank 5,245]

BOG's reaction...

 

[Caillean 504]

Didn't we put this to the league before expansion and the consensus was we'd rather have breadth than depth?

I wasn't a member before the expansion.

Imagine that, new members have different opinions than old ones.

[Frank 5,245]

New members also get turned off by a group of friends (BOG) making decisions for the site. I miss the old days when decisions were done by popularity and not by a select few. 

[Munk 1,298]

This is true, the site has become much worse since I haven't been in control.

 

 

This place is worse than the SHL #shotsfired #incomingban #fuckyoujardick #iknowwherehelives #imeanfrank

Edited November 23, 2014 by Munk

[Caillean 504]

New members also get turned off by a group of friends (BOG) making decisions for the site. I miss the old days when decisions were done by popularity and not by a select few. 

For sure. Definitely feels kinda like a "good old boys' club" situation going on here, and always has. It's a large part of why I went from being super active in my first few weeks to pretty much a ghost lately. I sign in, do my point tasks, check if my job needs doing, maybe say hi to a couple people, and log off.

[Kendrick 4,741]

The whole "group of friends (BOG)" thing is overkill. Telling new people that the BOG is an elitist group is rather silly too. You are giving the impression that they make all the decisions when in fact its a discussion group that the Blue Team use to base popular things on such as the TPE everyone loves to earn through giveaways and other shit.

[Frank 5,245]

K so my idea seems to have merit but it's being labelled embarrassing and stupid by the "BOG". 

[Jala 922]

The whole "group of friends (BOG)" thing is overkill. Telling new people that the BOG is an elitist group is rather silly too. You are giving the impression that they make all the decisions when in fact its a discussion group that the Blue Team use to base popular things on such as the TPE everyone loves to earn through giveaways and other shit.

I think BoG is a broad term for the older members who share the same mindset and nix anything that doesn't conform to the mold they think this league should be. There's a certain group of members who always seem to come into these threads and always seem to say the exact same thing, and quite a few of them are on the BoD.

 

There's too much smoke and mirrors about who the BoD is and what they do. Is it them, or the blue team, or a mysterious third party of old members that are so against changing a system that a lot of new members, not just the usual whiner suspects, are having issues with.

[Caillean 504]

The whole "group of friends (BOG)" thing is overkill. Telling new people that the BOG is an elitist group is rather silly too. You are giving the impression that they make all the decisions when in fact its a discussion group that the Blue Team use to base popular things on such as the TPE everyone loves to earn through giveaways and other shit.

That's not the issue *at all*. The issue is that since I've been here, I've seen a few threads shut down/locked/etc (including one of my own) where it was basically determined that everything that was being said by newer members was "ridiculous, embarrassing, stupid, rude, etc" (and I'm not even referring to Gorlab's meltdown), but pretty much only by the older members.

 

I get that I'm a new member and never gonna have as much say as someone who's been around for years. But when say, I voice a concern like grading times (as I've been over on the SHL for a while now, I can confidently say their grading gets done in a FAR more timely manner than it does here) and get immediately shut down by all the pissed off graders who feel they're being mocked or ridiculed, only to see the same complaint brought up less than a month later (and I can't seem to find that thread now, did it get deleted or something?) with the exact same bs responses like "Oh, I have a job in REAL life and dont have time during the week". Well then maybe don't sign on for a job in a league that requires its members to stay active and keep things updated?

 

I've seen several people since I've joined complain about the length of time it takes things to get graded. I posted a graphic early Wednesday morning. Yet another week where Bushito is the only person that's graded it before Sunday. Jaladolar has a 40 hour a week job, yet still finds time to do his updating job during the week on the SHL. I see several graders sitting around here during the week, posting in threads, but things don't get graded. It just seems like everyone just waits until the last minute to see if others will do it and then if not, someone jumps on it so that it gets done.

 

I brought all this up once before and got shut down, yet 2 weeks later there were postings looking for more graders, despite being told that "everything was fine as it was and we definitely do not need more graders". It just honestly feels like if a newer member has an idea, it automatically gets shot down, even if it's a legitimate concern. And apparently even Frank gets lumped in with newer, considering he's apparently been around for years. I don't know if I want to stay a part of a league where in a few years if I have an idea to possibly help the league, it could get shot down in the way Frank's has. It wasn't enough to just say "Eh, we don't agree", it went all the way to being described as embarrassing. The only thing embarrassing here is how senior members are acting.

Edited November 23, 2014 by Caillean

[boubabi 4,725]

Where is the tl;dr version of the thread

[Caillean 504]

Where is the tl;dr version of the thread

Tl;Dr

Frank suggests less teams to increase roster sizes

Several people call the idea stupid

Frank and others respond

[gorlab 4,321]

brb driving to 302 to see if I can hand Jardy a fade before he cabs home.

[boubabi 4,725]

Frank should do an official suggestion with all the details, send it to whoever decide this and let have a real argument with facts and shits about it. Its a pain in the ass, but it should be the job of the BoG to answer to that properly (ain't saying they didn't) but they need to act like an adult vs a kid, they need torepeat things often if needed.

[Caillean 504]

Frank should do an official suggestion with all the details, send it to whoever decide this and let have a real argument with facts and shits about it. Its a pain in the ass, but it should be the job of the BoG to answer to that properly (ain't saying they didn't) but they need to act like an adult vs a kid, they need torepeat things often if needed.

I respectfully disagree. The BoG aren't our betters, they're just in charge. There's no reason for them to talk down to anyone. There's no real reason to make a suggestion like this private, considering it's something that effects the whole league. Making it a public post means Frank as well as the BoG can gauge public interest. The problem here was people coming in and insulting the idea, assuming they were serious with the insults (which they seemed to be).

Edited November 23, 2014 by Caillean

[Frank 5,245]

Frank should do an official suggestion with all the details, send it to whoever decide this and let have a real argument with facts and shits about it. Its a pain in the ass, but it should be the job of the BoG to answer to that properly (ain't saying they didn't) but they need to act like an adult vs a kid, they need torepeat things often if needed.

 

That right there's the issue. It shouldn't be up to a select few. Ideas should be open to debate rather then being hidden away in the BOG. 

Edited November 23, 2014 by Frank

[boubabi 4,725]

Well, they respond like this because I think because they don't see any problem with the current system. Which is, in my opinion, true. You guys bring an idea to " resolve " a problem. Which is certain inactivity in some team. But thats the point, the whole league is base on team cycle, like junior teams. People want to get stacked at some point and then after tank as fuck because it's the easiest way to make the cycle run. Reducing the VHL team, which means a lot of changes overall in the VHL history and shits, have too many downgrades to be considerate atm. As an exemple, playing on a third line would sucks for a young prospect whos looking to build an hall of fame career wise.

The only way " reducing the number of team " that would benefit the league is in the VHLM because there is not enough active players to fill those team and we actually loose some members through that. But in the VHL, thats not the case imo

Damn, why I wrote this through my phone

[boubabi 4,725]

I don't want to enter into philosophic shits, but we all know the problem of a "complete democracy" right?

[Caillean 504]

And that's fair, Boub. Like I said, for me at least the issue isn't even that the idea got shot down, it was the manner in which it was done. Just because someone doesn't think something's a good idea doesn't mean they need to ridicule the person who presented it or the idea itself, if that makes sense. There's nothing THAT ridiculous about the idea. It may be that it wouldn't work. but it's not like Frank said "Hey let's move the VHL to mars!". He made a reasonable suggestion that was met with (imo) unreasonable dislike.

 

 

I don't want to enter into philosophic shits, but we all know the problem of a "complete democracy" right?

 

Can't say I do I guess, but I can say that I don't like the idea of knowing the people who "rule over me" so to speak don't even consider something someone says worth listening to when it's not a horribly offensive idea, especially when it gets ruled out as "we asked people before and they were for it". Well, maybe ask again? There's a reason laws and rules get changed as popular opinion shifts. Not saying it *has* shifted, but the fact that people are implying this shouldn't even be a discussion really bothers me.

Edited November 23, 2014 by Caillean

[stevo 795]

Where is the tl;dr version of the thread

tl;dr need more beer for everybody

[boubabi 4,725]

Well, the way Frank present it (Being baked as fuck) I think some people saw it like a joke.

And we can all act a bit jerky at some point

[Higgins 3,618]

So people actually want to just axe Quebec and Cologne? So that every team is competitive? Then 4 teams will still be missing the playoffs because in the 8 team league only 4 teams made it.

There is a lot of negatives with just deleting teams too.

[BOOM 8,810]

Thank you all for something to read while taking a poop.

[sterling 2,000]

Thank you all for something to read while taking a poop.

Same. I honestly don't think there is much merit to the notion we don't listen to new members suggestions. I've made a lot of changes based on what people ask or suggest over the years. In terms of the specific grading complaint, that's an area the BOG has no control over, that's why we have a head grader. For this suggestion, it's not about an us versus them mindset (though some members can't state their point without being dinks, me included at times). This goes down to what I told the three turds on the pajodcast, when making significant changes to the league you have I look at whether these changes would have a positive Or negative impact. Decreasing ice time in the vhl and lowering the number of playoff teams would have a negative impact imo

[AIM-11 134]

I don't want to enter into philosophic shits, but we all know the problem of a "complete democracy" right?

 

There are also problems with an Oligarchy.