Welfare/pension ruins the league

[jRuutu 2,464]

Almost every week there is over 20 players who use the welfare/pension to earn some TPE. Why is there anything over 2 tpe handed out?  Some players collect 4 or 5 tpe each week by just posting in the thread, why is that allowed? Nobody is going to do those media spots and graphic things each week to earn 6 if they can get 4 or 5 points for ´free´.

 

If I create a new player after this one, and get him to 400 tpe I can start to collect 4 tpe with pension upgrade? Who wins then? The league is that much less active. 

 

If it´s not getting tweaked or removed: 

 

When VHL is struggling with getting new people in, why cant we create another player when it looks like draft years are bit weaker?  Special committee could choose a user(s) who will be allowed to create another player if the draft is weak. Different users every season is allowed to do that if needed.

 

There is already loads of people on the welfare/pension and building their player that way, adding some names to that list is not going to make any difference to anything. In return we would have higher quality games with less bots and perhaps bit more activity around the league if someone want to have really successful pair of players by doing media spots/graphics.

 

Not 100% sure about the details,but that welfare/pension is already decreasing activity quite nicely. If it´s going to stay as it is, there should be no reason to keep struggling with weak drafts and lack of players to use in VHL  if a system like welfare/pension is allowed. 

 

Just my thoughts.

 

 

 

 

Edited March 27, 2016 by jRuutu

[Smarch 3,150]

You take away pension you lose some fairly good members, that's what I would guess

[hedgehog337 3,483]

You got some good points, but

 

1 minute ago, Smarch said:

You take away pension you lose some fairly good members, that's what I would guess

 

 

Some of users, including me have no time or just don't want to write article every/almost every week.

Edited March 27, 2016 by hedgehog337

[jRuutu 2,464]

Just now, Smarch said:

You take away pension you lose some fairly good members, that's what I would guess

For sure, but how well is the league actually doing then at the moment if taking away something like welfare/pension will make people leave? 2 tpe is fine for welfare. 

[hedgehog337 3,483]

Just now, jRuutu said:

For sure, but how well is the league actually doing then at the moment if taking away something like welfare/pension will make people leave? 2 tpe is fine for welfare. 

 

So it's just pension thats ruins the league, not welfare?

[jRuutu 2,464]

1 minute ago, hedgehog337 said:

You got some good points, but

 

 

 

Some of users, including me have no time or just don't want to write article every/almost every week.

That is very understandable. I´m in a similar positionas well sometimes. Still handing out 4 or 5 tpe is too much. 

Edited March 27, 2016 by jRuutu

[Smarch 3,150]

Just now, jRuutu said:

For sure, but how well is the league actually doing then at the moment if taking away something like welfare/pension will make people leave? 2 tpe is fine for welfare. 

I think you fail to realize that without welfare we likely might not be sitting her talking in this forum. The leagues problems don't arise from welfare, in my opinion at least

[jRuutu 2,464]

Just now, hedgehog337 said:

 

So it's just pension thats ruins the league, not welfare?

What is the difference? Post in a thread = you get tpe? 2 tpe should be the max you get for doing something like that.

[hedgehog337 3,483]

Just now, jRuutu said:

What is the difference? Post in a thread = you get tpe? 2 tpe should be the max you get for doing something like that.

 

Just welfare = 2 TPE

Welfare+Pension = more than 2 TPE

 

something like that I guess?

[jRuutu 2,464]

Just now, Smarch said:

I think you fail to realize that without welfare we likely might not be sitting her talking in this forum. The leagues problems don't arise from welfare, in my opinion at least

Perhaps, but isnt 4 tpe or 5 tpe each week bit too much from just writing on a thread?  Nothing wrong with using that sometimes, but there is over 20 players in most of the weeks. 

[jRuutu 2,464]

2 minutes ago, hedgehog337 said:

 

Just welfare = 2 TPE

Welfare+Pension = more than 2 TPE

 

something like that I guess?

Maybe, but in my opinion 2 tpe should be the max you can get. Reward the people who do work during the week instead of handing it out for ´free´ because you have been here before.

[Fire Tortorella 2,653]

4 minutes ago, jRuutu said:

Perhaps, but isnt 4 tpe or 5 tpe each week bit too much from just writing on a thread?  Nothing wrong with using that sometimes, but there is over 20 players in most of the weeks. 

 

It's not just that "you've been here before", but "you've been here before and have contributed to the league by making at least 2 decent players."

 

I also think it's safe to say that the VHL wouldn't be here without welfare.

[hedgehog337 3,483]

28 minutes ago, jRuutu said:

 In return we would have higher quality games with less bots

 

 

So if we'll get 2 TPE from welfare...That's like 50 TPE that we can get per season. no more. 50x6=300 TPE before regression. That's mediocre at most.

[jRuutu 2,464]

15 minutes ago, flyersfan1493 said:

 

It's not just that "you've been here before", but "you've been here before and have contributed to the league by making at least 2 decent players."

 

I also think it's safe to say that the VHL wouldn't be here without welfare.

That might very well be true. I have only been here for a little while, but I´m still going say that those people who have contributed to the league previously by creating 2 decent players should not be rewarded that heavily. Or perhaps I´m just missing a bigger picture here. Is Vhl supposed to be more of a relaxed and fun league instead of really time consuming?

 

I do the bare minimum each week by creating terrible media spots. If I can do it, the whole league would be a lot better if more people would do the media spots instead of picking up welfare or pension or whatever tpe it is that allows you to get 4/5 tpe each week for ´free´.

 

Should the rewards for media spots and graphics be increased then? from 6 to 8 tpe?  More people who do media spots and graphics the better? 

 

 

Edited March 27, 2016 by jRuutu

[jRuutu 2,464]

1 minute ago, hedgehog337 said:

 

So if we'll get 2 TPE from welfare...That's like 50 TPE that we can get per season. no more. 50x6=300 TPE before regression. That's mediocre at most.

Yea, you would have to do media spots or graphics or whatever to earn that tpe. I refuse to believe there is over 20 people almost each week who are so busy every week that they cant put together 500 words in 7 days.  I´m sure there is. People got kids and jobs which is a perfectly good reason to do welfare or pension,but there should be no more than 2 tpe handed out if you cant do a media spot or graphics or something.

[Phil 5,119]

All Podcasts (only podcasts) will be worth 12 TPE each to combat this huge problem. 

 

 

I approve.

[NotAVHLM-GM 1,858]

If it were just 2, i wouldnt even have recreated.

[scoop 3,426]

3 minutes ago, Green said:

If it were just 2, i wouldnt even have recreated.

Same. And while I don't write media spots or make graphics as much as I used to, but I still occasionally will, but only because I'm even still around. And there will be periods of times where for a month or so, I'll write a media spot each week. Then maybe I get burnt out on it for a few months. Without getting that 4 TPE per week, it's very likely I wouldn't stick around. I like to think I bring a unique presence to the league that, although maybe not missed by all, would be noticed if I were to be gone. I hate to bring it up, because it's always my go-to when I like to feel important, but career stats would not be a thing without me. No one else has ever consistently updated them like I have (sure, maybe because I've been doing it for so long and if I were gone, someone else would step up), but when I was gone for a few seasons not doing it, they were 2-3 seasons out of date when I returned.

 

 

Also, just for the record, saying "4 or 5 TPE" is kind of incorrect. You can only get 5 if you make the store purchase, and it's an inefficient purchase at that. Though I actually wouldn't argue if we got rid of the option to buy a Pension II upgrade, just to maybe get people to buy a VHL.com/Radio upgrade and do those articles at least.

[scoop 3,426]

1 hour ago, jRuutu said:

Yea, you would have to do media spots or graphics or whatever to earn that tpe. I refuse to believe there is over 20 people almost each week who are so busy every week that they cant put together 500 words in 7 days.  I´m sure there is. People got kids and jobs which is a perfectly good reason to do welfare or pension,but there should be no more than 2 tpe handed out if you cant do a media spot or graphics or something.

The people who have been here longer and have had multiple players have also done a lot of point tasks in the past. It's not always just a matter of time, but it can also be a bit of a struggle to continue to write media spots after you've already written hundreds in your time here.

[Devise 4,475]

As Street and Green have shown, the purpose of welfare isn't to just "reward" members for doing nothing. It's to KEEP members who would otherwise not recreate around. The VHL often has a very deep cycle of "legit" members that can often at times build and make up it's core. More often than not after 2-3 solid to great careers, careers mind you where they did write MS, do Podcasts, have league jobs, and really participate in making this place great, members feel burnt out. Maybe they have wife, kids, new job, family, tests, exams, the list goes on. 

 

It's a reality of this being a sim league. Sure it's fun, sure it can be important. But it is never more important than life. Not only would removing the bigger welfare bonus make us lose these members now, we could damage ourselves in the future too. For now, members like Green and Street can be burnt out, or busy. We've had tons of members in that same boat. But often, after any number of seasons, if those same people get the itch again, and they end up having more free time for a period of a few months? Suddenly they recreate, and are active again for one more player. Welfare keeps them around for when that day comes. 

[Devise 4,475]

I will however also state that I think your on to something regarding the too close reward system in comparison from a Media Spot to Welfare. I do not think reducing the welfare/pension bonus is however the answer.

 

Random idea that could help potentially increase the amount of MS and other content we see without taking it overboard. As it stands currently, we have a capped TPE earning limit per week of 9. That goes for all members. I think it would be interesting, that if you did a point task or magazine article in a week, if your capped TPE limit for that week would go up. Where as if you just claimed welfare, it would stay at 9. It wouldn't have to go up that high, say to 12. But this would encourage those who are super active, to get in on every bit of extra capped TPE they can, and allow those members to separate themselves even more from those claiming welfare. As mentioned here, with a welfare upgrade, a job, and even a couple of other small things a member can earn anywhere from 7-9 per week just doing welfare. 

[Baozi 1,658]

I'm only just one person, but Welfare/pension is what keeps me and my donation money around. I just don't have that ability to sit down and hack out articles anymore and really speaking, I really don't like writing lol.

 

In my mind though, I've earned it with several high calibre point task driven players that got me my pension 2 + shop upgrade.

 

If someone gave me TPE for sitting and talking to people around in chat that'd be great.

 

I mean sure I can make a decent player still on pension but when compared to active individuals, the quality of player difference is pretty high. I don't think it necessarily brings down the league, as long as we reward the more active players with better top end abilities. But if you make all pension/welfare players trash or not worth it, then most of them will leave or not bother. Better to have a pension player than a bot, because at least pensioners lurk the forums here and there still.

Edited March 27, 2016 by tfong

[jRuutu 2,464]

 

34 minutes ago, Streetlight said:

The people who have been here longer and have had multiple players have also done a lot of point tasks in the past. It's not always just a matter of time, but it can also be a bit of a struggle to continue to write media spots after you've already written hundreds in your time here.

For sure, I´m already struggling with ideas and I have done only few them  

 

18 minutes ago, Mr. Power said:

As Street and Green have shown, the purpose of welfare isn't to just "reward" members for doing nothing. It's to KEEP members who would otherwise not recreate around. The VHL often has a very deep cycle of "legit" members that can often at times build and make up it's core. More often than not after 2-3 solid to great careers, careers mind you where they did write MS, do Podcasts, have league jobs, and really participate in making this place great, members feel burnt out. Maybe they have wife, kids, new job, family, tests, exams, the list goes on. 

 

It's a reality of this being a sim league. Sure it's fun, sure it can be important. But it is never more important than life. Not only would removing the bigger welfare bonus make us lose these members now, we could damage ourselves in the future too. For now, members like Green and Street can be burnt out, or busy. We've had tons of members in that same boat. But often, after any number of seasons, if those same people get the itch again, and they end up having more free time for a period of a few months? Suddenly they recreate, and are active again for one more player. Welfare keeps them around for when that day comes. 

Absolutely, I agree with pretty much everything, but what about the people who come after Street and Green? What if a person who is new to sim leagues,joins here and sees people get 4 points from the welfare and he has to do media spot or graphics to earn 6? Somebody might think it´s not fair. They might not even say anything, but they just slowly go inactive and never come back. 

 

The longer VHL keeps on going, the more players will be recreating and joining the welfare army. Also, I think it´s not a good look for the league when  people say they would not even recreate if the league wont allow them to get ´free´ tpe from welfare. Some kind welfare is fine, but the amount should be less than now. Or the reward from MS/graphics should be higher.

[jRuutu 2,464]

27 minutes ago, Mr. Power said:

I will however also state that I think your on to something regarding the too close reward system in comparison from a Media Spot to Welfare. I do not think reducing the welfare/pension bonus is however the answer.

 

Random idea that could help potentially increase the amount of MS and other content we see without taking it overboard. As it stands currently, we have a capped TPE earning limit per week of 9. That goes for all members. I think it would be interesting, that if you did a point task or magazine article in a week, if your capped TPE limit for that week would go up. Where as if you just claimed welfare, it would stay at 9. It wouldn't have to go up that high, say to 12. But this would encourage those who are super active, to get in on every bit of extra capped TPE they can, and allow those members to separate themselves even more from those claiming welfare. As mentioned here, with a welfare upgrade, a job, and even a couple of other small things a member can earn anywhere from 7-9 per week just doing welfare. 

I would like to see something like that. Anything that promotes more activity is great. 

[jRuutu 2,464]

18 minutes ago, tfong said:

I'm only just one person, but Welfare/pension is what keeps me and my donation money around. I just don't have that ability to sit down and hack out articles anymore and really speaking, I really don't like writing lol.

 

In my mind though, I've earned it with several high calibre point task driven players that got me my pension 2 + shop upgrade.

 

If someone gave me TPE for sitting and talking to people around in chat that'd be great.

 

I mean sure I can make a decent player still on pension but when compared to active individuals, the quality of player difference is pretty high. I don't think it necessarily brings down the league, as long as we reward the more active players with better top end abilities. But if you make all pension/welfare players trash or not worth it, then most of them will leave or not bother. Better to have a pension player than a bot, because at least pensioners lurk the forums here and there still.

I agree that it´s much better to have a real person here instead group of bots, but there should be even bigger difference between welfare/pension and ´active´ players than there is now. 

 

There is +20 players on welfare/pension on most of the weeks and in my opinion it absolutely brings down the league.

 

How about you can only do welfare/pension once every two weeks?I mean something has to be done.