NYA/RIG ; S51 Off-Season

[Toast 887]

To

(S49) G - Ilya Kopralkov, TPE: 456

 

To  

(S52) D - Grigory Kopralkov, TPE: 121

 

The Toastiest deal ever. Pleasure doing business with you, @Mr. Power! 

[Devise 4,475]

I accept. I was happy Toast came to me with this back up plan before draft/FA even started, and even happier that his D was able to fall to me at 8th. Oddly enough the original intent of this deal was to help Riga avoid cap space from you know, signing some of their FA's back and Jardy and going for it this season. But now NY gets a solid goalie for the season as well as giving Toast a younger D to help with his rebuild. 

 

 

For those wondering, this has been cleared with the Blue_Team. Toasts GM player will be switching from his goalie to his D. 

[Victor 10,550]

Lmao I thought you were trying to compete NY.

[Toast 887]

1 minute ago, Victor said:

Lmao I thought you were trying to compete NY.

 

You're going to bring out Kopralkov's breakout season with all this trash talk! 

[Victor 10,550]

Just now, Toast said:

 

You're going to bring out Kopralkov's breakout season with all this trash talk! 

Looking forward to Grigory's performance.

[scoop 3,255]

Just now, Toast said:

 

You're going to bring out Kopralkov's breakout season with all this trash talk! 

Kopralkov can share the Most Improved Player with Ravenwing and Maxwell!

[Toast 887]

1 minute ago, Victor said:

Looking forward to Grigory's performance.

 

He saw right through it, guys.

[Victor 10,550]

Just now, Toast said:

 

He saw right through it, guys.

If NY does make the finals this season though, I hope there's a Game 7 with Riga. You did this to yourself!

[Kendrick 4,724]

25 minutes ago, Mr. Power said:

For those wondering, this has been cleared with the Blue_Team. Toasts GM player will be switching from his goalie to his D. 

Can this happen though? One of them wasn't in the draft and that was the G. If it is allowed, do we have an amendment or addition to the rulebook to make?

 

Also, is their a reason this deal is severely lopsided?

[Devise 4,475]

Just now, Kendrick said:

Can this happen though? One of them wasn't in the draft and that was the G. If it is allowed, do we have an amendment or addition to the rulebook to make?

 

Also, is their a reason this deal is severely lopsided?

 

Toast cleared it with Draper first. Helsinki did a similar situation just not via trade. In the sense that Higgins Project Two player is his GM player. They chose to make their second player the GM player instead of their first player. According to @Draper provided one of the GM's players is on the team, he can be the GM player. 

[scoop 3,255]

1 minute ago, Kendrick said:

Can this happen though? One of them wasn't in the draft and that was the G. If it is allowed, do we have an amendment or addition to the rulebook to make?

Can what happen? I don't know if you understood what exactly Devise was saying (it did read a little funny to me, but I already knew what he was trying to say anyway), but he's just saying that Toast's GM designated player is now Grigory Kopralkov instead of Ilya Kopralkov.

[Kendrick 4,724]

Just now, Mr. Power said:

 

Toast cleared it with Draper first. Helsinki did a similar situation just not via trade. In the sense that Higgins Project Two player is his GM player. They chose to make their second player the GM player instead of their first player. According to @Draper provided one of the GM's players is on the team, he can be the GM player. 

Okay so we do need an addition to the Rulebook then, because as this deal looks now it can't really be a thing unless the league was informed.

 

I just think we could get into some bad moments later on where GM's strictly use the 8 year career on one player then with 3 seasons to go in that career trade him off and allow their 2nd player to be their GM player. Basically it could mean the GM never has a player enter the VHL draft for another team to acquire, which isn't really fair or the point.

[Kendrick 4,724]

3 minutes ago, Streetlight said:

Can what happen? I don't know if you understood what exactly Devise was saying (it did read a little funny to me, but I already knew what he was trying to say anyway), but he's just saying that Toast's GM designated player is now Grigory Kopralkov instead of Ilya Kopralkov.

Is this supposed to be a smart ass comment? I know what that meant. See above post.

[Devise 4,475]

Just now, Kendrick said:

Okay so we do need an addition to the Rulebook then, because as this deal looks now it can't really be a thing unless the league was informed.

 

I just think we could get into some bad moments later on where GM's strictly use the 8 year career on one player then with 3 seasons to go in that career trade him off and allow their 2nd player to be their GM player. Basically it could mean the GM never has a player enter the VHL draft for another team to acquire, which isn't really fair or the point.

 

But we acquired Toast's D with a legitimate pick in the draft. So his player wasn't acquired for free. 

[Kendrick 4,724]

Just now, Mr. Power said:

 

But we acquired Toast's D with a legitimate pick in the draft. So his player wasn't acquired for free. 

I understand that for your sake. I just meant later on with the transferring of that title to said second player and first player (and vice versa).

[Devise 4,475]

Just now, Kendrick said:

I understand that for your sake. I just meant later on with the transferring of that title to said second player and first player (and vice versa).

 

I guess I just don't understand what your concern is. Who do you think is getting something for free or manipulating something and how? If we look at the Helsinki situation as comparison, Higgins took over while his player was already on Calgary. At that time the Blue_Team decided it would be fairest if Higgins Project Two player was deemed the GM player. Setting right then and setting the first precedent. But the actual rules on Project Two GM player scan be found...

 

 

8 - General Manager Players

• At least one of the General Managers players must be on the roster or be a prospect for their team at all times.
• GM Rule - Only one active player can be acquired through the GM Rule. Therefore a GM cannot trade their first player acquired through the GM Rule, and create a second player and have that player be added to the team via the GM Rule. In order to create a new player under the GM Rule, the active player acquired through the GM Rule must be officially retired.

 

It clearly states that at least one of the GM's player must be on the roster or prospect at all times. This trade doesn't circumvent that. Toasts D, a prospect in the VHLM is now property of Riga and therefore is his GM player. 

[Toast 887]

I'm really trying to think of something constructive to add to this conversation but I keep losing it over "Toast's D."

 

You're damn right my D ain't free. 

 

Devise covered everything though. It's not like we're manipulating a loophole here. The rules state I have to have one of my player's on my roster, and this deal keeps that in check. New York spent a draft pick for my second player, and didn't get anything for free. The deal was done because I have no need for a backup goalie again and this deal guarantees that I get an active prospect in return for him. I can't think of any possible trade scenario where I acquire a younger player who will stay for his career and make sure to keep up with updates.

[scoop 3,255]

2 minutes ago, Mr. Power said:

 

I guess I just don't understand what your concern is. Who do you think is getting something for free or manipulating something and how? If we look at the Helsinki situation as comparison, Higgins took over while his player was already on Calgary. At that time the Blue_Team decided it would be fairest if Higgins Project Two player was deemed the GM player. Setting right then and setting the first precedent. But the actual rules on Project Two GM player scan be found...

 

 

8 - General Manager Players

• At least one of the General Managers players must be on the roster or be a prospect for their team at all times.
• GM Rule - Only one active player can be acquired through the GM Rule. Therefore a GM cannot trade their first player acquired through the GM Rule, and create a second player and have that player be added to the team via the GM Rule. In order to create a new player under the GM Rule, the active player acquired through the GM Rule must be officially retired.

 

It clearly states that at least one of the GM's player must be on the roster or prospect at all times. This trade doesn't circumvent that. Toasts D, a prospect in the VHLM is now property of Riga and therefore is his GM player. 

But Kendrick is right that we do need a rule regarding the transferring of GM player designation. Let's take a look at Greg. He has Jarvi and Thrower. Jarvi is his GM player right now. When he recreates, his recreate will go right to Cologne because Jarvi was his GM player. Can he then arbitrarily transfer GM player designation to Thrower so that when he retires, he can get his next player? Obviously something like that shouldn't be able to happen.

[Kendrick 4,724]

1 minute ago, Mr. Power said:

 

I guess I just don't understand what your concern is. Who do you think is getting something for free or manipulating something and how? If we look at the Helsinki situation as comparison, Higgins took over while his player was already on Calgary. At that time the Blue_Team decided it would be fairest if Higgins Project Two player was deemed the GM player. Setting right then and setting the first precedent. But the actual rules on Project Two GM player scan be found...

 

 

8 - General Manager Players

• At least one of the General Managers players must be on the roster or be a prospect for their team at all times.
• GM Rule - Only one active player can be acquired through the GM Rule. Therefore a GM cannot trade their first player acquired through the GM Rule, and create a second player and have that player be added to the team via the GM Rule. In order to create a new player under the GM Rule, the active player acquired through the GM Rule must be officially retired.

 

It clearly states that at least one of the GM's player must be on the roster or prospect at all times. This trade doesn't circumvent that. Toasts D, a prospect in the VHLM is now property of Riga and therefore is his GM player. 

Okay as you can see by my other responses I understood this deal was good now, bit was the future I was questioning. The part in the rule book that says "GM Rule" is the part I was wondering about and a part I didn't see until now (because of the addition I was used to seeing that in there).

 

What my concern/question was is this:

 

If a GM's first player (John Wilson) was acquired with the GM Rule and before his 7th season he is traded from Team A to Team B, then in that same off-season would he be able to transfer that title to Mike Smith (his 2nd Player acquired through the draft by Team A)? Then 5-6 seasons down the line he creates another player (Roger Williams) after Wilson had retired, transfer the title to Williams and trade Smith away? Basically meaning he never really has to go out an acquire any of his players. Am I lost in my own thinking?

[Kendrick 4,724]

2 minutes ago, Streetlight said:

But Kendrick is right that we do need a rule regarding the transferring of GM player designation. Let's take a look at Greg. He has Jarvi and Thrower. Jarvi is his GM player right now. When he recreates, his recreate will go right to Cologne because Jarvi was his GM player. Can he then arbitrarily transfer GM player designation to Thrower so that when he retires, he can get his next player? Obviously something like that shouldn't be able to happen.

This. Just I went down 20 streets to get there when I could've taken a sharp right on Logical Lane.

[Will 4,604]

19 minutes ago, Mr. Power said:

 

Toast cleared it with Draper first. Helsinki did a similar situation just not via trade. In the sense that Higgins Project Two player is his GM player. They chose to make their second player the GM player instead of their first player. According to @Draper provided one of the GM's players is on the team, he can be the GM player. 

 

I think you may be confusing me with Jardy unless I'm forgetting something  

[Kendrick 4,724]

3 minutes ago, Toast said:

I'm really trying to think of something constructive to add to this conversation but I keep losing it over "Toast's D."

 

You're damn right my D ain't free. 

 

Devise covered everything though. It's not like we're manipulating a loophole here. The rules state I have to have one of my player's on my roster, and this deal keeps that in check. New York spent a draft pick for my second player, and didn't get anything for free. The deal was done because I have no need for a backup goalie again and this deal guarantees that I get an active prospect in return for him. I can't think of any possible trade scenario where I acquire a younger player who will stay for his career and make sure to keep up with updates.

It's not really an issue with this trade per say, more of issue with the designation of the title "GM Player" moving forward.

 

But I did have another point, considering you changed the designation and can still keep updating the G, this trade still looks very lopsided.

[Devise 4,475]

Oh I see your talking about intentionally trading his own older GM player switching it and then enabling himself to loop it for the future. 

 

Yeah I don't know I'd imagine that it would be tough to line up both having the trade partners and able to acquire your own project two player to make it happen. Keep in mind in your Greg example, Greg isn't allowed to retire and recreate another second player. He was granted Thrower and once Jarvi retires he would then have to ensure Thrower is eligible for the project two lottery, so Thrower becoming his GM player should be fine in that situation.

[Higgins 3,617]

23 minutes ago, Mr. Power said:

 

Toast cleared it with Draper first. Helsinki did a similar situation just not via trade. In the sense that Higgins Project Two player is his GM player. They chose to make their second player the GM player instead of their first player. According to @Draper provided one of the GM's players is on the team, he can be the GM player. 

 

That example is a bit of a stretch. Titans forfeited a draft pick to get Jacob, just like many other teams have in the past to acquire a GM.

[Frank 4,777]

Toastception