League Ideas

[boubabi 4,725]

[hedgehog337 3,483]

Just now, boubabi said:

 

[boubabi 4,725]

[boubabi 4,725]

Riga sucks

[hedgehog337 3,483]

6 minutes ago, boubabi said:

Riga sucks

 

Davos - Helsinki 4:0

[boubabi 4,725]

Naw man

 

4-1 

[boubabi 4,725]

[Beketov 9,025]

I think a point is trying to be made here regarding showing emotion in your posts but either way this isn't adding nothing to the main discussion of this topic...

 

EDIT:

It has reminded me though of the other discussion from here I wanted to bring up but forgot. I have always been against the idea of x posts = y TPE. It's a good idea on the surface but just seems like it would be far too easy to get out of hand. I could easily go into the locker room and post an entire novel 1 word at a time and get thousands of posts and TPE for them but am I really doing anything for it? It just seems like giving away TPE for the sake of it which is the same problem I have with activity check type stuff. 

Edited September 18, 2017 by Beketov

[boubabi 4,725]

Alright !!!!!!!!!

[jRuutu 2,464]

1 hour ago, Beketov said:

You can predict that the argument would come up but that doesn't make the argument less valid. At the end of the day contracting will do more harm than good.

 

1. It will make the league look worse to perspective members. Cool, it's been around for 10 years but they just dropped half their teams, something must be wrong.

 

2. Players will still mass on good teams and non-playoff teams will still be bad. Having fewer teams does not automatically make competition. There will always be teams that are ready to compete and teams that aren't. You could have 4 teams in the league and I'd bet still only 2 would be competitive. It's the nature of the beast.

 

Contraction is not a solution; it's a bigger band-aid than the league has ever seen. 6/10 Teams have a good shot at the Conference finals. In a league where there are only 6 teams making the playoffs that is good balance. Yes, there are teams who tanked very hard; I don't deny that. But remove those teams and the other 2 that missed the playoffs don't suddenly become powerhouses. They still wouldn't have the players required to beat the top end teams. It's easy to make the argument that if we remove 4 teams (for example) that offers us 20 players (again for example) and theses 20 will spread evenly over the remaining 6 teams. However in practice it won't happen that way. Some teams won't have cap space, others will. Some teams won't be competing for a few seasons anyway so won't try for any, others will. Things aren't even because the teams do not compete in a vacuum. Every team is different and has different needs at different times. Removing teams won;t suddenly throw everything into balance; it will just make the strong teams stronger which will force the weak teams to rebuild more and we have the same problem but a smaller league. There's no reason for it.

1. But they would also see a lot more activity around the teams and league in general when mostly the active ones are left.

 

2. Maybe that is true, but removing teams would still create more competition than now, might not be perfect, but still better than what we have now.

 

Would need to tweak the salary caps and salaries in general if few teams are removed. More importantly, active users would be closer to each other when there is less teams, that will only create better experience for everybody. Now there is quite good change you might end up into a team that has few active players. Can everything that happens outside the LR´s keep the newer members in VHL? I

[Gudnason 607]

@Beketov when the hell were PTs worth 4 TPE? They were 6 as far as I recall from when you took steroids. 

[Beketov 9,025]

3 minutes ago, punkhippie said:

@Beketov when the hell were PTs worth 4 TPE? They were 6 as far as I recall from when you took steroids. 

Maybe the drugs messed with my brain but I recall very early seasons being only out of 4. Might have just been season 1. There was definitely a time though. There was also a time when re-creation TPE was higher so inflation was worse. My main point stands that TPE records hold much less meaning than most because we are constantly tweaking the amount of TPE people can earn.

Edited September 18, 2017 by Beketov

[DollarAndADream 3,356]

18 hours ago, Banackock said:

Agreed though. All members are 100% equal and valued. 

 

We need to find a system where both are rewarded fairly. IMO, 4= welfare. Media spot = 6. (600 words is a fair amount). Lower it to 400???? If someone can do fuck all and claim 4? Why am I spending an hour writing a good article for 6? Right?

Media Spots are actually 450 words for 6 TPE. That was changed from 500. I don't recall a time it was ever 600.

There is also the fact that the people claiming 4 TPE have had 2+ 400 TPE players made, so they get that benefit because of their previous work they put in. Although, from my standpoint at least, I think that 400 TPE should be upped to like 600. 400 isn't much at all these days.

 

 

 

3 hours ago, jRuutu said:

I still find it hard to believe even half of the welfare claimers actually do that, post around VHL actively? Maybe they do, I don´t know, but just sounds amazing how they can be ´active´ members, but still cant do PT´s, even every second week?

 

I don´t know what kind daily schedules people have, but even with the 30 minute schedule, you should have enough time during the week to put together 500 word article. Does not have to be massive research behind the article, just write little bit each day, when weekend comes, finish it.

 

I can of course talk only about myself here, but the daily check takes at max 10 minutes, that includes posting in game threads, checking what goes in LR and around the VHL. Usually not much happen in VHL, surely not every day and rarely something everybody is going to comment on.

 

I hope the PT payout increase happens as fast as possible.

 

 

I'm here every single day, reading up threads and posting in game threads, etc. Looking at other stuff around league and discussions. Sometimes I still don't have time for a 2 PTs, sometimes no time for even 1 PT. I think the majority of welfare claimers aren't due to laziness, but an actual lack of time. You could be right about widening the gap between welfare TPE and PT TPE though, to make it bigger.

Although, I've never had a problem with getting 6 TPE for a graphic or 450 word article while welfare guys got 2-4 TPE. Maybe that's because I usually get 9 TPE from the VHL job that comes with my PTs? I don't know, but I've just never had that issue. To me, if these veteran VHL guys are claiming 4 TPE while I have to write some stuff for 6, it's fine with me, but I guess I'm more laid back.

 

 

All of that being said, this article is an amazing start, @Banackock. You got a lot of discussions flowing outside of the BoG. I definitely don't mind that. I'm sad that I missed it happen live though.

 

I'm also all for Activity Checks = 1 or 2 uncapped for posting in it weekly, or sim participation TPE like the EFL and SBA have. Those leagues are different though, because they have 1 thread for each sim, not 10 separate threads for each game. SHL doesn't do game threads either unless it's playoffs, they just have everyone commenting in the index thread.

 

I also wouldn't mind upping the career limit to like 10 or 12 seasons. I mean, I've only been here since S35, so maybe I'm just not an old enough member, but I don't give a shit about impacting the record books. Hell, we could just set up a 10-12 season record book instead, but that would kind of kill the old record books, so that's probably not a great idea. A lot of SHLers reason for not coming to the VHL are the 8 season careers as well, so maybe lengthening that could help bring over some more hockey sim guys from there.

 

There are definite changes that need to be done. I understand veteran members and even everyone in this thread arguing their points, but change is better than a dead league. Something needs to happen.

 

Also, if we change to that older jcink look like the SHL, NSFL, and GOMHL have, then I'm GTFO of here. This new styling forum that the VHL, SBA, and EFL have is just a cleaner, more professional look. Those other leagues just always feel messy to me.

[Beketov 9,025]

4 minutes ago, DollarAndADream said:

Also, if we change to that older jcink look like the SHL, NSFL, and GOMHL have, then I'm GTFO of here. This new styling forum that the VHL, SBA, and EFL have is just a cleaner, more professional look. Those other leagues just always feel messy to me.

I can't speak for the other two you mention but the SHL being messy is entirely on them. I moved that board over to jcink and set everything up to be neat, organized, and functional. And then a week later they destroyed it with a pile of clusterfuckery because people apparently have some kind of beef with sub forums over there. Big part of the reason I have never gone back tbh. In any case, there are definitely way more arguments against jcink. I'm just pointing out that it can be a functional site if it's set up right, places just don't always do that. Going the full paid IP model is definitely better and offers far more growth possibilities than jcink ever can.

[jRuutu 2,464]

5 minutes ago, DollarAndADream said:

Media Spots are actually 450 words for 6 TPE. That was changed from 500. I don't recall a time it was ever 600.

There is also the fact that the people claiming 4 TPE have had 2+ 400 TPE players made, so they get that benefit because of their previous work they put in. Although, from my standpoint at least, I think that 400 TPE should be upped to like 600. 400 isn't much at all these days.

 

 

 

I'm here every single day, reading up threads and posting in game threads, etc. Looking at other stuff around league and discussions. Sometimes I still don't have time for a 2 PTs, sometimes no time for even 1 PT. I think the majority of welfare claimers aren't due to laziness, but an actual lack of time. You could be right about widening the gap between welfare TPE and PT TPE though, to make it bigger.

Although, I've never had a problem with getting 6 TPE for a graphic or 450 word article while welfare guys got 2-4 TPE. Maybe that's because I usually get 9 TPE from the VHL job that comes with my PTs? I don't know, but I've just never had that issue. To me, if these veteran VHL guys are claiming 4 TPE while I have to write some stuff for 6, it's fine with me, but I guess I'm more laid back.

 

 

I agree there, 400 is not much. Might even reach it as a 3 TPE welfare/pension claimer?

 

I would say some are still lazy in the welfare group, maybe not all, but if you would push them little bit, could maybe get few more back to doing PT´s weekly. Now they don´t really have to. Seasoned veterans collecting 4 tpe from welfare/pension and rolling on just fine. That needs to change, either bumping better payout for PT´s or just making welfare/pension be less for everybody, 2 tpe for example.

[DollarAndADream 3,356]

3 minutes ago, jRuutu said:

I agree there, 400 is not much. Might even reach it as a 3 TPE welfare/pension claimer?

 

I would say some are still lazy in the welfare group, maybe not all, but if you would push them little bit, could maybe get few more back to doing PT´s weekly. Now they don´t really have to. Seasoned veterans collecting 4 tpe from welfare/pension and rolling on just fine. That needs to change, either bumping better payout for PT´s or just making welfare/pension be less for everybody, 2 tpe for example.

I won't want to call anyone out, but @stevo was a mostly welfare player his whole career with World B. Free. He had over 600 TPE. That's from basically welfare, plus probably the training camps, award predictions, fantasy stuff. But he rarely did PTs.

 

 

[jRuutu 2,464]

12 minutes ago, DollarAndADream said:

All of that being said, this article is an amazing start, @Banackock. You got a lot of discussions flowing outside of the BoG. I definitely don't mind that. I'm sad that I missed it happen live though.

 

I'm also all for Activity Checks = 1 or 2 uncapped for posting in it weekly, or sim participation TPE like the EFL and SBA have. Those leagues are different though, because they have 1 thread for each sim, not 10 separate threads for each game. SHL doesn't do game threads either unless it's playoffs, they just have everyone commenting in the index thread.

 

I also wouldn't mind upping the career limit to like 10 or 12 seasons. I mean, I've only been here since S35, so maybe I'm just not an old enough member, but I don't give a shit about impacting the record books. Hell, we could just set up a 10-12 season record book instead, but that would kind of kill the old record books, so that's probably not a great idea. A lot of SHLers reason for not coming to the VHL are the 8 season careers as well, so maybe lengthening that could help bring over some more hockey sim guys from there.

 

There are definite changes that need to be done. I understand veteran members and even everyone in this thread arguing their points, but change is better than a dead league. Something needs to happen.

 

Also, if we change to that older jcink look like the SHL, NSFL, and GOMHL have, then I'm GTFO of here. This new styling forum that the VHL, SBA, and EFL have is just a cleaner, more professional look. Those other leagues just always feel messy to me.

Sim participation could be one way to replace welfare or be part of it, creates more activity around the league.

 

I would not be against 10 or 12 season careers either,  records of any kind quite rarely come up in the day to day life in sim leagues.

 

 

[jRuutu 2,464]

2 minutes ago, DollarAndADream said:

I won't want to call anyone out, but @stevo was a mostly welfare player his whole career with World B. Free. He had over 600 TPE. That's from basically welfare, plus probably the training camps, award predictions, fantasy stuff. But he rarely did PTs.

 

 

That is basically a elite player, 600 TPE defender. Even at 500 TPE he would be a great player in this league.

[DollarAndADream 3,356]

4 minutes ago, jRuutu said:

That is basically a elite player, 600 TPE defender. Even at 500 TPE he would be a great player in this league.

Yeah, it's interesting to look at.

 

I mean, he had 600 TPE mostly doing welfare.

Meanwhile, a dedicated member will get around 900, and 1000+ if they're going hard as fuck.

 

So, numbers-wise, that is definitely a good gap of like 300-400 TPE, but in the sim? In the sim that's still a great player, whereas 900+ is elite.

 

But this is considering that World B. Free ended with 600. He wasn't like that for very long. He was a depth defender for Toronto, and a reliable one.

[Bushito 1,945]

2 hours ago, jRuutu said:

Maybe the league should after all change the name to Welfare Hockey League.

 

The league needs to kick few teams out, bring the competition back to VHL, even with 2nd player system there is not enough players. Next someone comes back with the line: ´There is always someone who is tanking´ Sure, but in a smaller league the tanking team would be better than now. Look at the standings from this season, two teams had under 30 points. Do we really need to have teams like that here?

I disagree

[jRuutu 2,464]

9 minutes ago, DollarAndADream said:

Yeah, it's interesting to look at.

 

I mean, he had 600 TPE mostly doing welfare.

Meanwhile, a dedicated member will get around 900, and 1000+ if they're going hard as fuck.

 

So, numbers-wise, that is definitely a good gap of like 300-400 TPE, but in the sim? In the sim that's still a great player, whereas 900+ is elite.

 

But this is considering that World B. Free ended with 600. He wasn't like that for very long. He was a depth defender for Toronto, and a reliable one.

Can you can even get to 900 or 1000 without donations and bonuses from there? I have collected steady 8 almost every week from start to here and now reached 700, I´m a S52 player. 900 sounds possible, but 1000 - not sure.

 

But yea, in the sim the difference is not as big as the TPE difference between 600 and 900 might suggest or even 400 and 700. Should really find a way to make the difference feel in the sim as well

[Beketov 9,025]

2 minutes ago, jRuutu said:

Can you can even get to 900 or 1000 without donations and bonuses from there? I have collected steady 8 almost every week from start to here and now reached 700, I´m a S52 player. 900 sounds possible, but 1000 - not sure.

I never had any donations with Holik (that I recall, maybe 1 early on), barely hit the cap most weeks (took welfare some) and managed 1000 TPE. It's definitely possible.

[jRuutu 2,464]

7 minutes ago, Bushito said:

I disagree

Something needs to happen. We got too many welfare users.

[hedgehog337 3,483]

I just came here to say @DollarAndADream gave me a 1000 like. Thank you! 

 

[jRuutu 2,464]

Just now, Beketov said:

I never had any donations with Holik (that I recall, maybe 1 early on), barely hit the cap most weeks (took welfare some) and managed 1000 TPE. It's definitely possible.

Hmm, need to see if I can do that as well, never donated either.