Army of backwashers

[jRuutu 2,464]

The awards show was last night and like always there was few odd decisions from the award committee, either for some reason they did not vote in some awards or almost randomly gave their votes, at least that is what it looks like when you look some of the award winners and their vote totals. Perhaps the biggest ´surprise´  was the David Knight Trophy that went to Zeptenbergs with votes 8 to 1. The one vote was for Gow from Calgary:

 

David Knight Trophy: Benjamin Zeptenbergs (RIG): Zeptenbergs (RIG) - 8, Gow (CGY) - 1

 

Now somebody might be wondering, so what? Zeptenbergs did good job, lead Riga to best regular season record with 119 points and into the playoffs. Good choice for the award really. Gow in Calgary lead their organization to 75 points and also into the playoffs. Neither Calgary or Riga made it into the finals though.

 

Who is there to vote then? Well, how about the GM of the team who won the cup? First cup in what, 20 seasons? + Quebec had 2nd/3rd best regular season record with 114 points and we made it into finals and actually won the cup, but Franks vote total:  0 votes, 0 votes! Last year the GM of Helsinki won the award, he lead Helsinki to finals and into the cup, Frank got one vote then when he also lead Quebec to finals, but now when Quebec is in the finals again and actually won the cup, Frank gets 0 votes!!

Gotta wonder who are these people who vote on the awards? Why is it ok to give the award last year to GM who did the same as what Frank did this year, but this year Frank gets no love?

 

Unbeliavable that league heads are actually proudly standing behind these award voting results, allowing the results to be published when only 4 or 5 users voted in few of the awards and seeing what the results are for Top executive award for example, did you even check what the people are voting for in there?  Could it be possible they just copied whatever the last guy voted? Or do you seriously believe the GM who leads a team to first cup victory in 20 or so seasons deserves 0 votes? How about pushing people to vote on the awards that only have 4 or 5 votes?

 

Things in VHL are not in good shape, the league is unhealthy and the army of backwashers who keep voting for their friends and standing against anything that would make them actually do some work while holding on to their cozy little jobs at BOG, head office etc are the reason why this league will slowly but steadily head into destruction. This place reminds me a lot about Finland and the mentality some have, they will rather pay 100 euros, so the neighbor wont have 50 euros for free.

 

Edited October 6, 2017 by jRuutu

[Beketov 9,021]

Aside from Playoff MVP all awards are for the regular season. Cup is irrelevant and in fact the award was voted on before the cup was even won. The reason Higgins got it last year wasn't because he won the cup. It was because he made the moves to put his team above and beyond the competition in order to win.

 

It isn't that I think Frank did nothing, he built a great team. However it was a long process of slowly building Quebec up. Riga meanwhile went from a bottom feeder (more or less) to the victory cup in the span of 1 season. That's top GM material.

[jRuutu 2,464]

5 minutes ago, Beketov said:

Aside from Playoff MVP all awards are for the regular season. Cup is irrelevant and in fact the award was voted on before the cup was even won. The reason Higgins got it last year wasn't because he won the cup. It was because he made the moves to put his team above and beyond the competition in order to win.

 

It isn't that I think Frank did nothing, he built a great team. However it was a long process of slowly building Quebec up. Riga meanwhile went from a bottom feeder (more or less) to the victory cup in the span of 1 season. That's top GM material.

Cup is irrelevant... unreal.... Time to maybe change that mentality little bit in the award voting process?

 

Top Gm material sure, but in a year that another GM leads their team to cup for the first time in 20 seasons? 0 votes? really? 

 

 

Edited October 6, 2017 by jRuutu

[BOOM 8,745]

Add me to the Awards committee....I'll fix it!

[hedgehog337 3,483]

4 minutes ago, BOOM said:

Add me to the Awards committee....I'll fix it!

 

Hired!

 

Congratulations @STZ on winning the S57 David Knight Trophy!

[Advantage 2,891]

1 hour ago, jRuutu said:

Cup is irrelevant... unreal.... Time to maybe change that mentality little bit in the award voting process?

 

Top Gm material sure, but in a year that another GM leads their team to cup for the first time in 20 seasons? 0 votes? really? 

 

 

Yeah sorry no, that has no bearing on the voting for that award.

 

Just like the real NHL..it is strictly for regular season.

 

 

[BOOM 8,745]

39 minutes ago, hedgehog337 said:

 

Hired!

 

Congratulations @STZ on winning the S57 David Knight Trophy!

 

[Beketov 9,021]

1 hour ago, jRuutu said:

Cup is irrelevant... unreal.... Time to maybe change that mentality little bit in the award voting process?

 

Top Gm material sure, but in a year that another GM leads their team to cup for the first time in 20 seasons? 0 votes? really? 

 

 

I'm not saying he should have gotten 0 votes. And keep in mind I don't have a vote anymore. I'm simply stating how the voting goes for that award. The cup makes no difference. if it did then winning the cup would guarantee a top GM award which is both boring and makes no sense. Just as the first cup in 20 seasons has no bearing. Not only is it cup related but how does it change anything that it's been awhile? 

 

It's a regular season award, simple as that. I would argue Victory Cup has more of a bearing on it than Continental Cup does. Ultimately though it comes down to what GM made the best moves in regards to their team winning. Frank 100% deserved the cup, I'm not denying that and Quebec had a great season but what was done in Riga far deserves top GM more.

[Advantage 2,891]

Fun fact, Frank also has a vote in this.  Since he's in the BOG.

[NotAVHLM-GM 1,858]

If Quebec was dead last the year before and he would then suddenly be the top of the conference due to some solid trades / signings, than he would likely have won. When you have a solid core in place who made it to the finals two years in a row, then there just isn't much he needed to do to keep his team competitive. Sure he traded for Maximoff his rights and he decided on playing there which helped him keep his team on top, but based on previous seasons Quebec was expected to be good.

 

There isn't much of a shock effect and I guess the winner just had more to do with his team improvement. Even though the difference can be minimal, when its a closed voting and everyone hold a similar standard, then 0 points is always a possibility, this doesn't mean he did a shitty job, it just means everyone thought that someone else did a bit more to improve his team.

 

And besides that, im quite sure @Frank prefers winning the cup over winning top gm. It's all others complaining and I haven't heard him about it being unfair and all

[jRuutu 2,464]

1 hour ago, Beketov said:

I'm not saying he should have gotten 0 votes. And keep in mind I don't have a vote anymore. I'm simply stating how the voting goes for that award. The cup makes no difference. if it did then winning the cup would guarantee a top GM award which is both boring and makes no sense. Just as the first cup in 20 seasons has no bearing. Not only is it cup related but how does it change anything that it's been awhile? 

 

It's a regular season award, simple as that. I would argue Victory Cup has more of a bearing on it than Continental Cup does. Ultimately though it comes down to what GM made the best moves in regards to their team winning. Frank 100% deserved the cup, I'm not denying that and Quebec had a great season but what was done in Riga far deserves top GM more.

Riga GM deserves the top-GM next year if they win the cup. This year was a great start, but far deserving? No way, like rewarding someone who is half way there or 3/4 there instead of rewarding someone who is at 4/4 and won the cup.  Not saying you need to give the top-GM award to the cup winning team every time, that is when the glorious award voting commitee comes into picture, up to them to decide if for example winning the cup for the first time in 20 season is enough or is there perhaps someone else who did something on the same level.

 

Having the top-GM award being regular season award is a terrible decision, simple as that.

[jRuutu 2,464]

1 hour ago, Green said:

If Quebec was dead last the year before and he would then suddenly be the top of the conference due to some solid trades / signings, than he would likely have won. When you have a solid core in place who made it to the finals two years in a row, then there just isn't much he needed to do to keep his team competitive. Sure he traded for Maximoff his rights and he decided on playing there which helped him keep his team on top, but based on previous seasons Quebec was expected to be good.

 

There isn't much of a shock effect and I guess the winner just had more to do with his team improvement. Even though the difference can be minimal, when its a closed voting and everyone hold a similar standard, then 0 points is always a possibility, this doesn't mean he did a shitty job, it just means everyone thought that someone else did a bit more to improve his team.

 

And besides that, im quite sure @Frank prefers winning the cup over winning top gm. It's all others complaining and I haven't heard him about it being unfair and all

Giving it out too early, why not wait and see if the magical work of the GM results in an actual cup win?  Frank has not yet won the award alone and has lead Quebec to 3 finals and 1 cup win. When you think he is going to win it if not now? Is that kind of record not worthy a top-GM award, The best time to award that would naturally be after the cup win, no?

 

Sure, Frank won it together with Miller on S54, but should have been Millers alone or the cup winning teams GMs. Kinda hilarious that now after the best year overall he gets 0 votes, but wins it when he loses the cup, mysterious.

 

I´m sure Frank will pick cup over top-GM award 10 times out of 10, but total lack of respect in my opinion towards him and his work as a GM when voting is 8-1 and Frank at 0 votes. You can try to mask it as simply voters thinking Riga GM deserves it more or it´s a regular season award, once again: first cup in Quebec for 20 seasons, but actions speak louder than words. Would there be any comments if Frank now won the top-GM award instead of Hedgehog? Would Riga people have the nerve to go after a GM who lead a team to first cup victory in 20 seasons and claim it should be their GM who deserves to win the top-Gm?

 

 

[jRuutu 2,464]

2 hours ago, ADV said:

Fun fact, Frank also has a vote in this.  Since he's in the BOG.

Not everybody vote for themselves in the awards even if they could,  for examle it´s always fun to see in the top leader award voting everybody voting from themselves, good stuff.

[Advantage 2,891]

3 minutes ago, jRuutu said:

Giving it out too early, why not wait and see if the magical work of the GM results in an actual cup win?  Frank has not yet won the award alone and has lead Quebec to 3 finals and 1 cup win. When you think he is going to win it if not now? Is that kind of record not worthy a top-GM award, The best time to award that would naturally be after the cup win, no?

 

Sure, Frank won it together with Miller on S54, but should have been Millers alone or the cup winning teams GMs. Kinda hilarious that now after the best year overall he gets 0 votes, but wins it when he loses the cup, mysterious.

 

I´m sure Frank will pick cup over top-GM award 10 times out of 10, but total lack of respect in my opinion towards him and his work as a GM when voting is 8-1 and Frank at 0 votes. You can try to mask it as simply voters thinking Riga GM deserves it more or it´s a regular season award, once again: first cup in Quebec for 20 seasons, but actions speak louder than words. Would there be any comments if Frank now won the top-GM award instead of Hedgehog? Would Riga people have the nerve to go after a GM who lead a team to first cup victory in 20 seasons and claim it should be their GM who deserves to win the top-Gm?

 

 

Yes cause it's a regular season award and Riga had the better regular season with more improvement.

[jRuutu 2,464]

1 minute ago, ADV said:

Yes cause it's a regular season award and Riga had the better regular season with more improvement.

I find it hard to believe, if something similar has happened before - would like to see the thread. (No need to look for it now, but if you find it some day or remember something like that happening all of a sudden, feel free to tag me in)

 

In every other league you would be laughed at if you at that situation go after the award winning top-GM who lead his team to first cup in 20 seasons and try to claim your GM did more moves and had a better year than last year, so should give the award to your Gm instead.

[Advantage 2,891]

2 minutes ago, jRuutu said:

I find it hard to believe, if something similar has happened before - would like to see the thread. (No need to look for it now, but if you find it some day or remember something like that happening all of a sudden, feel free to tag me in)

 

In every other league you would be laughed at if you at that situation go after the award winning top-GM who lead his team to first cup in 20 seasons and try to claim your GM did more moves and had a better year than last year, so should give the award to your Gm instead.

It doesn't happen often cause we vote based on the rubric of the award.

 

That's actually not true since I've been in around 30 of these leagues and it's how it is done in basically every league in every season that is not Season One (since the first season kinda has to be based on that).

Edited October 6, 2017 by ADV

[jRuutu 2,464]

Just now, ADV said:

It doesn't happen often cause we vote based on the rubric of the award.

 

That's actually not true since I've been in around 30 of these leagues and it's how it is done in every season that is not Season One (since the first season kinda has to be based on that).

I still don´t believe you, there is no way they hand out a top-GM award to anyone else than to the GM who lead the team to first cup in a while.  If the same team wins again next year, then I could see a ´Riga moment´ happening where a team/GM who did not actually win the cup gets the top-Gm award

[Advantage 2,891]

1 minute ago, jRuutu said:

I still don´t believe you, there is no way they hand out a top-GM award to anyone else than to the GM who lead the team to first cup in a while.  If the same team wins again next year, then I could see a ´Riga moment´ happening where a team/GM who did not actually win the cup gets the top-Gm award

Then don't believe me, that's fine.  

 

I know it's true and that's all that matters.  I've only been doing these since I was 11.

[jRuutu 2,464]

3 minutes ago, ADV said:

Then don't believe me, that's fine.  

 

I know it's true and that's all that matters.  I've only been doing these since I was 11.

Terrible rules. Why not aim for rewarding GMs who go the whole 9 yards? And rewarding them when they finish, not when they are almost there like it sounds like a lot of leagues do. Time for Frank to win it would have this season, time for Hedgehog would be next season if Riga wins the cup.

 

Otherwise stuff like this happen, when a GM reaches what we all aim for - the cup. Instead of handing out the final little icing on the cake, also known as top-GM award, it goes to someone else just because he/she did moves to improve the team and that way rise in the standings compared to last year, just like the cup winning GM did earlier, instead of having to do a lot of trades - he did the same from the draft. Problem with building through draft is that you might not see too much movement in the roster, the easiest and most logical moment then to award that Gm would be after the cup win.

[Advantage 2,891]

2 minutes ago, jRuutu said:

Terrible rules. Why not aim for rewarding GMs who go the whole 9 yards? And rewarding them when they finish, not when they are almost there like it sounds like a lot of leagues do. Time for Frank to win it would have this season, time for Hedgehog would be next season if Riga wins the cup.

 

Otherwise stuff like this happen, when a GM reaches what we all aim for - the cup. Instead of handing out the final little icing on the cake, also known as top-GM award, it goes to someone else just because he/she did moves to improve the team and that way rise in the standings compared to last year, just like the cup winning GM did earlier, instead of having to do a lot of trades - he did the same from the draft. Problem with building through draft is that you might not see too much movement in the roster, the easiest and most logical moment then to award that Gm would be after the cup win.

Its not like we dont look at the draft.  That's part of it too.  We just don't reward winning the cup.  It is what it is.  We can discuss changing it but we have been going over how you don't like it for 2 hours and that's not going to change anything with this year's vote.

 

 

[jRuutu 2,464]

Just now, ADV said:

Its not like we dont look at the draft.  That's part of it too.  We just don't reward winning the cup.  It is what it is.  We can discuss changing it but we have been going over how you don't like it for 2 hours and that's not going to change anything with this year's vote.

 

 

Trying to understand the logic behind giving the top GM award to someone who did not make it into finals YET over someone who did and also won the cup for Quebec for the first time in 20 seasons.

 

I guess it´s just one more to the list of things I don´t understand in VHL. For the discussions in BOG: It´s the little things that make the biggest difference for me personally as a user, this is one of those things that I truly believe you simply have wrong. Damage has been done already, no going back anymore, but when you think about the real reasons why people might be going away from VHL - it´s these things.

[Advantage 2,891]

1 minute ago, jRuutu said:

Trying to understand the logic behind giving the top GM award to someone who did not make it into finals YET over someone who did and also won the cup for Quebec for the first time in 20 seasons.

 

I guess it´s just one more to the list of things I don´t understand in VHL. For the discussions in BOG: It´s the little things that make the biggest difference for me personally as a user, this is one of those things that I truly believe you simply have wrong. Damage has been done already, no going back anymore, but when you think about the real reasons why people might be going away from VHL - it´s these things.

I don't think anyone is leaving the VHL because we don't include the cup into GM voting (like every other league in the world).  Don't be ridiculous.

[jRuutu 2,464]

Just now, ADV said:

I don't think anyone is leaving the VHL because we don't include the cup into GM voting (like every other league in the world).  Don't be ridiculous.

No, but it does not at least help if and when results like this happens. (This is the only league in the world where result like this can happen)

[Advantage 2,891]

3 minutes ago, jRuutu said:

No, but it does not at least help if and when results like this happens. (This is the only league in the world where result like this can happen)

It's not actually? There are a ton of other sim leagues too with the same voting criteria.

 

The results are correct based on the criteria.  The criteria is the part you don't like which as has been said a thousand times, can be up for discussion.

[NotAVHLM-GM 1,858]

I prefer the bigger picture over 'just winning the cup'. Management is also the bigger picture and not just one aspect of it.