Why am I here?

[Steve 1,716]

Why are most people here in the VHL? Is it to meet other people? A social hangout? Is it a Hockey Sim? I really don't know the answer to these questions because a mix of all is good but the end result is still an unknown to me.

 

I came into this sim and loved the aspect of earning points to improve your player. I had the notion that I wasn't the only one here that came here for the purpose of having a great hockey sim experience. I really have to question though, is this really a sim focused on the best hockey sim experience or is that just a side topic to bring people together and not really worry about how this sim works. Just put in your time, earn tpe and move along. Don't worry about how bad the sim engine is or if your team is actually trying to focus on winning. There must be a side to the VHL that I didn't know about. I just want to have fun, make some friends and have a player that I can be proud of.

 

My concern is that I might have set my expectations too high for this sim league. I thought the focus in the open Discord would be a bunch of players talking about builds or helping new members along on their path to success. That is not the case, in general. I thought that the teams would take time and make every effort into making their teams as good as possible. I have been trying to do everything I can to be a successful member of the VHL.

 

I just want to be clear, is this a hockey sim or am I wasting my time, effort and donations. I don't have any issues with anyone here in the VHL. I do have concerns about how poorly some things are addressed on the league side as well as how teams ran in general.

 

I am happy to be here and sad at the same time. Happy to have an outlet to take up some time and chat with some really good people. Sad that the actual player build vs sim engine is really a joke in my eyes. I don't see any changes to the way it is ran and that also makes me rethink my position here in the league.

[Gustav 6,100]

A few interesting points here. First off, to talk about player builds--how boring would it be if simply having tons of TPE and knowing how to use it (and that second bit comes pretty quickly, only took me about a season to get a good sense of what a good build looks like for just about anyone) were the single defining key to success? If that were the case, I could just sit here and crank out one Hall of Fame player after another by just following the formula and maxing out every week. We've got players with high TPE who aren't absolutely dominant, and we've got mid-range players who are overachieving, but I think that's fine--in real life, an elite player with tons of talent can end up not fitting in and not succeeding, and a player who isn't generally seen as top-tier can have a breakout season if their fit with the team is good enough. If you ask me, it's a very good thing that we've got some degree of luck involved as well, and the fact that, in general, there's a positive correlation between TPE and success is enough for me.

 

And I get the argument that it's frustrating to put points into your player and not see results, and that's a valid point...but do we really want something as formulaic as "I have 90 scoring and my teammate has 89, I should be outscoring them"? (I'm not saying this is what you're saying, by the way, it's just a case that could be made against a sort of "I have TPE, therefore I must be a good player" mentality)

 

I totally agree that the VHL Discord server can be sort of hit-or-miss...when I first joined the league, I didn't go in there much, in part because of the fact that a certain member who is no longer an active part of this league was extraordinarily toxic to anyone who crossed his path and on Discord around the clock (anyone who was around pre-S67 or so can probably take a good guess), and also due in part to the fact that everyone seemed to know each other already, and the server was just a means for non-teammates to catch up on each other socially. And, now that I'm fairly well-known around the league, and I'm liked at least well enough that most people are willing to give me a good conversation, I really enjoy the VHL server. I'm in there as a social thing, really, and that's especially valuable to me considering that I don't have much of a real-life social life (though that aspect of my life has been improving lately, so I'm thankful for that). But, like you said, this league has some really good people in it, and I love the fact that I've gotten to know many of them through VHL chat. But getting to a comfortable level in there was difficult for me, so I completely understand why someone may feel awkward and on the outside looking in. My best advice on the way to enjoyment in that regard is just to pop in and join discussions whenever it occurs to you to do so--soon enough, you'll feel like a member of "the club" (though there isn't a club, it just feels that way).

 

What about the league do you think isn't run correctly? I think this opens up an opportunity for some good, interesting discussion, and it might even be helpful to me as a GM.

 

@Steve

Edited November 17, 2019 by GustavMattias

[fonziGG 1,065]

3 hours ago, Steve said:

I do have concerns about how poorly some things are addressed on the league side as well as how teams ran in general.

You know, in a general sense I can agree with everything else you're saying but I'm curious about this bit of your vhl.com article, especially as a VHLM GM.

 

What are your thoughts on how a team should be run? I sincerely find Malmo's LR to be extremely positive and we all get along really well.

[zepheter 585]

I see the VHL as a source of entertainment that allows me to discuss what I love about hockey while also creating a unique story for not only myself but each of my players. Since joining the VHL, I've met so many new people that love hockey just as much as me. What I failed to do when I first join was involve myself with the regulars. It's not for some people to sit in a discord chat with half a dozen people they will never meet, but it's certainly an option. While I really like the create-a-player aspect, I feel like the community is a staple in what brings the most people back each season. I wish you best of luck in your decision to stay around. I'm not the most interesting person, but if you would ever like to chat I'm on fairly often. 

[Enorama 1,980]

7 minutes ago, fonziGG said:

You know, in a general sense I can agree with everything else you're saying but I'm curious about this bit of your vhl.com article, especially as a VHLM GM.

 

What are your thoughts on how a team should be run? I sincerely find Malmo's LR to be extremely positive and we all get along really well.

 

Maybe he's talking about Davos   

[zepheter 585]

Davos was a swing and a miss eh

[DMaximus 1,045]

I can't thank you enough for taking the time to write this out.

 

I think the lack of personal strategy around builds is mainly due to the fact that the only strategy is to earn as much TPE as you can. Because you can basically max out every relevant stat category, you don't really have to think about how you build. There is very little nuance and very little need for discussion just earn, blindly dump points into a couple of stat categories, and hope the sim likes you. 

 

To fix this, I think the cost of attributes should be drastically increased on the upper end. It currently costs 195 TPE to get to 99 on a stat, 105 to get to 90. 

My scale would look something like this:

up to 70 - 1 TPE/point

70 - 99 - the cost of increasing each point is +1 TPE more expensive, so 70 to 71 costs 2 TPE, 71 to 72 costs 3 TPE, going from 79 to 80 would cost 11 TPE. 90 to 91 would cost 22 TPE.

Under this scale getting to 99 costs 495, which would be difficult to get to without ignoring every other stat. It should be really difficult to get to 99!

 

There's a ton of different ways to scale back the overpowered builds, this is just one suggestion, but I think a new scale would help people establish different types of players because you could no longer just dump points to get to 90+ in everything like you currently can. Of course, earning TPE would still be extremely important, as it should, tasks for TPE is what this league runs on.

 

 

 

[ShawnGlade 1,002]

I agree with some parts of this. When first joining, I found it extremely fun to actually work towards something, and the community was awesome. The discord was brand spankin new, and aside from a few bad eggs, it was more or less what you described, people actually discussing vhl

 

Then the wave of younger members came in from god knows where (I won't act like I'm super old either, I'm only 18) but it was i think the mid teens members who came in and were typical teenagers, and it sorta just created a toxic environment in the discord, and soon everyone followed suit for some reason

 

But discord aside, I feel like it definitely has become more of an unwelcoming place as of late, and less fun because of it. The site has developed a "be tough and toxic and if you dont like it youre a fucking pussy" which i dont like at all

[Enorama 1,980]

7 minutes ago, ShawnGlade said:

The site has developed a "be tough and toxic and if you dont like it youre a fucking pussy" which i dont like at all

 

I'm willing to bet this is still like 1/20 of how it was in the olden days. You joined during the dead period, so as activity ramps up, everything ramps up with it. I don't get the vibe you do at all, personally, I think the environment is as good as it's ever been, at least since penny got booted off the Discord.

[ShawnGlade 1,002]

1 minute ago, Enorama said:

 

I'm willing to bet this is still like 1/20 of how it was in the olden days. You joined during the dead period, so as activity ramps up, everything ramps up with it. I don't get the vibe you do at all, personally, I think the environment is as good as it's ever been, at least since penny got booted off the Discord.

That's what my "bad eggs" comment was about, there were members who stirred shit and people followed making it a less welcoming place

 

I mean personally, I haven't done much of note besides struggle with my VHL team, and it seems like I can't talk in the discord without people being toxic towards myself and others, and just being annoying in general. i know you're kinda friendly with a few of those members, and i'm not blaming you at all, just saying we probably have different experiences 

[Fire Tortorella 2,653]

@Steve

 

I feel like I'm missing some points, but addressing some of the issues:

 

Team over performance - I'm assuming this is something to do about how good Prague and DC are doing? We're still only 10% into the season...if either of these teams had a random hot streak in the middle of the season, no one would bat an eye, but since it's the beginning, everyone notices. 

 

Player builds vs. sim performance - Overall, I don't think there is too much of a problem with player results in relation to overall TPE. In general, the best players in the league are those who have the most TPA, and the more TPA you have, the better you'll do. Obviously ice time opportunity, line mates, and randomness will still affect you, and I'd wager that all three are highlighted most in this league (and hockey sims in general) compared to basketball and football leagues due to the nature of the sport, roster sizes, etc.. 

 

Player builds themselves - STHS is not great at this, but I don't think it's the worst either. From what I understand, EFL is the worst in player build diversity since all you need to do is get speed to be good. VHL is somewhere in the middle - I would say there are 4 primary attributes (Defense, Skating, Scoring, and Passing) two optional/differentiator (checking and faceoffs) and two secondary attributes (puck control, strength) and two "unknowns" (discipline, leadership). For what it's worth, it's relatively recent (in VHL terms at least...maybe around the S40ish?) that people stopped putting TPE into discipline, as some felt that it didn't really do much in terms of reducing PIMs, but that may sort of be up in the air and I don't know if it's 100% proven that it doesn't. I think the number of primary attributes is OK, but the number of secondary attributes is lacking when compared to the SBA, which I think has the best player build diversity due to the large number of secondary attributes and the fact that there are more defensive (or at least non-offensive) stats in basketball compared to hockey. It's certainly a limitation of the sim engine, but I wouldn't say it's a deal breaker.

 

Discord - Caveat being that I don't go on Discord often, but at the very least, there is the "Newcomers Help" section of the server where more nuanced build discussion could be had. I don't have much more to add since I don't really check discord.

 

Update Scale - Not exactly your point (more so @DMaximus), but in general, there needs to be a balance between the max TPE earners, the sort of max TPE earners, and the middling TPE earners. Currently, I would say it's possible for the "sort of max TPE earners" to hit the high 90s with their attributes by the time they hit their veteran contract, allowing them to be first liners on most teams. However, regression, especially in the 7th and 8th seasons, will force this to be short lived. The max TPE earners will hit their 90's/99s earlier on in their career and allow them to fight most or all of their regression, and even then, it's still hard in the 8th season and you have to differ basically all of your player store money just to fighting regression. If you move the update scale too harsh, then the max TPE earners become too powerful and can have too much influence on the league. It's a fine balance that needs to be had and is something we're always exploring, but at the end of the day, I'd rather have an update scale that was too easy compared to one that was too harsh.