Running A Sim League Is Hard: Perspectives On Several Failed Communities

[Gustav 6,469]

Why did the VHL have to turn 16? Could it be to distract the rest of you from me trying to delete the E? I'm going to choose to believe that this was the case and that I am being suppressed, rather than understand how calendars work and start this article in a more celebratory manner.

 

Something that occurred to me was that it is really hard to run a sim league successfully, much less start one. And though I can't claim to be part of any of this from a VHL perspective (sure, I'm partially responsible for the M, but that's a little bit different), I've got firsthand experience being in a few other startup leagues that I think are cool to write about.

 

 

The SBL: The closest thing to a "complete" league (in terms of large community size) that I've been a part of, the SBL was mostly an offshoot of the EFL/SBA side of our affiliation and (if I remember correctly) was run primarily by @AW13. We've got the PBE out there, but they use a different earning system to ours and this was the only baseball league I've known that worked like ours does. It was fun while it lasted, and a good number of people were on board with it. I myself was an updater and ran some weekly fantasy stuff, and I was far from the most important, so looking back on it we actually had a really impressive amount of people to start it up. Sadly, the SBL would fold after just a season, maybe two--I don't remember two full ones, but I think we made it through one entirely and were at least outwardly preparing for another when the announcement hit.

 

Why this happened: I'm honestly not 100% sure and I'm kind of sad it did because I liked it while it lasted. I don't think I ever saw any SBL-specific recruits, and it was after all just everyone's affiliate league. As that stood, it was clearly an unsustainable model. Plus, things like forum updating were inconvenient, and, again, with it being everyone's affiliate, it was probably really difficult to find people willing to step up and put in effort in a secondary league.

 

 

The SFC: A very ambitious project run by @Dil and @Beaviss that was very short-lived (and also one of my fastest burnouts in any community; sorry guys). This was a UFC sim built by Dil himself--I remember getting to give my guy a nickname, and I remember that it was "The Florentine Fireball", but I don't remember what his actual name was. It was a cool concept but lots of people lost interest pretty quickly and I also remember some technical issues coming up at one point. I'm pretty sure something had to be resolved and in the short time that took, I just didn't care anymore.

 

Why this happened: Here's the first mention of a common theme: you need lots of support to start a successful league, no matter how good you are at it. I think it's fair to say that building this long-term was too much for two people, even though it was momentarily really impressive. I also remember being a bit confused by the league's structure and I think it would have needed a lot of tuning to work with expanding and contracting league sizes.

 

 

Various iterations of cricket sim leagues: all started by @Berocka and none lasting very long. We started out as a Discord server that streamed sims run on some console game whose exact name I don't remember, and eventually tried a forum built by @Cxsquared. I was the third member of our "big three" that tried to run things but did by far the least. We did run a season (I managed the Perth Challengers!) but things fell apart spectacularly after that--retention rates dropped off hard with no recruitment and we came into conflict with other GMs who really didn't want to play with the rules as written. Honestly, my favorite out of everything we tried was the first version with the streams--watching those taught me the rules of the game and that's something I've actually been able to apply as I've gotten out into the real world and played a little bit with some people who are from places that actually care about cricket.

 

Why this happened: Maybe we could have caved in and gotten a half-assed second season on the forum if we did what a couple GMs wanted, but that wasn't the reason why it didn't work out. For one, we just weren't marketing to many people who wanted to be in it past the "just trying something new" stage, and it's also fair to say that the league didn't stand a chance with no recruitment efforts. It also happened to catch all three of us at busy times, and I don't think we were collectively in the right place to start up--nor did we have much help with it. But everything that happened with this took a lot of effort to get going--mostly from people other than myself--and it's much respected.

 

 

The IHL: I really don't want to call this a "failed" community because it ran for a while and I really liked it. In fact, I'd go so far as to say that I had more fun here for a while than I've had in any VHL affiliate league. This was a small community founded by @enigmatic a long time ago, going through various changes in composition and leadership, and was so small that we were about 8 members strong and could directly recruit people we knew to fill openings as needed. But it was a sim league, and in fact an STHS one--each of us had a roster where we were in charge of which players were played where and how their attributes were upgraded. I ran the Nuuk Nukes (that's Greenland for you--and before you guys started creating as Greenlandic here too), and in true Gustav form never won anything. Things came to a rapid halt at one point, less over systemic challenges than in our other examples. Because of this, I don't really want to do a "why" so much as I'd like to reflect positively on the time I spent there and the connections I made with some SHLers and other "money league" people who I hope are doing well.

 

 

So yeah, I haven't seen a sim league start firsthand and actually work in all the time I've been in them in general. It takes a ridiculous amount of effort and organization to get things off the ground in a sustainable way, and I know that it takes more of the same, all the time, to keep it that way. For 16 years, no less! It's more than just an annual observance--it's an annual celebration of a legitimate achievement. Here's to many more.

[Berocka 2,263]

Quote

 

[BOOM 8,818]

[Dom 1,445]

1 hour ago, Gustav said:

and in true Gustav form never won anything.

Did anyone else than @Acydburnactually won the cup there?

[Berocka 2,263]

42 minutes ago, Dom said:

Did anyone else than @Acydburnactually won the cup there?

I just remember fighting @diamond_ace for the privilege of playing @Acydburn I miss that league probably the best league I've been apart of

[Beketov 9,102]

4 hours ago, Gustav said:

So yeah, I haven't seen a sim league start firsthand and actually work in all the time I've been in them in general. It takes a ridiculous amount of effort and organization to get things off the ground in a sustainable way, and I know that it takes more of the same, all the time, to keep it that way. For 16 years, no less! It's more than just an annual observance--it's an annual celebration of a legitimate achievement. Here's to many more.

The amount of people that have come into leagues during the VHL / SBA / EFL era is kinda crazy so I think a lot of people just have the mindset that leagues lasting is the norm when it REALLY isn’t. We’re all kinda the exception, not the rule. Pre-VHL leagues were lucky if they lasted a year, like insanely lucky and it was incredibly uncommon. To be at 16 years and nearing 100 seasons is honestly completely unheard of as far as I know.

[Acydburn 1,618]

7 hours ago, Dom said:

Did anyone else than @Acydburnactually won the cup there?

I mean I won like 50% or something but @enigmaticwon a few times as a few others. 

[frescoelmo 1,282]

wtf is cricket

[Berocka 2,263]

16 minutes ago, frescoelmo said:

wtf is cricket

[frescoelmo 1,282]

18 minutes ago, Berocka said:

 

I need to get that outfit into my wardrobe STAT

[Daniel Janser 2,217]

45 minutes ago, frescoelmo said:

wtf is cricket

that is an insect belonging to the gryllidea which is awfully noisy, comes darkness... and moonlight as a conscience to sentient wooden puppets...

 

EDIT: Oh snap Berocka beat me to it...

Edited July 19, 2023 by Daniel Janser

[frescoelmo 1,282]

2 hours ago, Daniel Janser said:

that is an insect belonging to the gryllidea which is awfully noisy, comes darkness... and moonlight as a conscience to sentient wooden puppets...

 

EDIT: Oh snap Berocka beat me to it...

 

*dil enters the chat*

[Nykonax 1,566]

15 hours ago, Gustav said:

Honestly, my favorite out of everything we tried was the first version with the streams--watching those taught me the rules of the game and that's something I've actually been able to apply as I've gotten out into the real world and played a little bit with some people who are from places that actually care about cricket.

I barely even remember my player, I feel like he was a meme player that actually turned out to do pretty decent. But yeah those streams were a blast, just us asking Berocka to explain whatever happened on the screen because none of us knew the rules. I also came out with a solid understanding of cricket which was nice.

I think a lot of people during that time kind of got sim league fever, and just wanted to open and run their own leagues without having a solid understanding of just how much work goes into one, which resulted in a lot of burn out, and people just going back to their own main league and focusing on that. IMO the best way to run these side projects is just as fun side projects, and not needing to turn it into something bigger like the main sim-leagues with a league structure, GM's, recruitment, updating. Just find a fun sim engine, make a basic update scale, and give people TPE to spend and run exhibition games or a tournament or something over a few months, and come back to it every so often.

Edited July 19, 2023 by Nykonax

[Berocka 2,263]

1 hour ago, Nykonax said:

I barely even remember my player

If I remember correctly you had batman and bowlman

[Nykonax 1,566]

2 minutes ago, Berocka said:

If I remember correctly you had batman and bowlman

yup that was it. was legendary

[AW13 198]

On 7/19/2023 at 1:28 AM, Gustav said:

Why did the VHL have to turn 16? Could it be to distract the rest of you from me trying to delete the E? I'm going to choose to believe that this was the case and that I am being suppressed, rather than understand how calendars work and start this article in a more celebratory manner.

 

Something that occurred to me was that it is really hard to run a sim league successfully, much less start one. And though I can't claim to be part of any of this from a VHL perspective (sure, I'm partially responsible for the M, but that's a little bit different), I've got firsthand experience being in a few other startup leagues that I think are cool to write about.

 

 

The SBL: The closest thing to a "complete" league (in terms of large community size) that I've been a part of, the SBL was mostly an offshoot of the EFL/SBA side of our affiliation and (if I remember correctly) was run primarily by @AW13. We've got the PBE out there, but they use a different earning system to ours and this was the only baseball league I've known that worked like ours does. It was fun while it lasted, and a good number of people were on board with it. I myself was an updater and ran some weekly fantasy stuff, and I was far from the most important, so looking back on it we actually had a really impressive amount of people to start it up. Sadly, the SBL would fold after just a season, maybe two--I don't remember two full ones, but I think we made it through one entirely and were at least outwardly preparing for another when the announcement hit.

 

Why this happened: I'm honestly not 100% sure and I'm kind of sad it did because I liked it while it lasted. I don't think I ever saw any SBL-specific recruits, and it was after all just everyone's affiliate league. As that stood, it was clearly an unsustainable model. Plus, things like forum updating were inconvenient, and, again, with it being everyone's affiliate, it was probably really difficult to find people willing to step up and put in effort in a secondary league.

 

 

The SFC: A very ambitious project run by @Dil and @Beaviss that was very short-lived (and also one of my fastest burnouts in any community; sorry guys). This was a UFC sim built by Dil himself--I remember getting to give my guy a nickname, and I remember that it was "The Florentine Fireball", but I don't remember what his actual name was. It was a cool concept but lots of people lost interest pretty quickly and I also remember some technical issues coming up at one point. I'm pretty sure something had to be resolved and in the short time that took, I just didn't care anymore.

 

Why this happened: Here's the first mention of a common theme: you need lots of support to start a successful league, no matter how good you are at it. I think it's fair to say that building this long-term was too much for two people, even though it was momentarily really impressive. I also remember being a bit confused by the league's structure and I think it would have needed a lot of tuning to work with expanding and contracting league sizes.

 

 

Various iterations of cricket sim leagues: all started by @Berocka and none lasting very long. We started out as a Discord server that streamed sims run on some console game whose exact name I don't remember, and eventually tried a forum built by @Cxsquared. I was the third member of our "big three" that tried to run things but did by far the least. We did run a season (I managed the Perth Challengers!) but things fell apart spectacularly after that--retention rates dropped off hard with no recruitment and we came into conflict with other GMs who really didn't want to play with the rules as written. Honestly, my favorite out of everything we tried was the first version with the streams--watching those taught me the rules of the game and that's something I've actually been able to apply as I've gotten out into the real world and played a little bit with some people who are from places that actually care about cricket.

 

Why this happened: Maybe we could have caved in and gotten a half-assed second season on the forum if we did what a couple GMs wanted, but that wasn't the reason why it didn't work out. For one, we just weren't marketing to many people who wanted to be in it past the "just trying something new" stage, and it's also fair to say that the league didn't stand a chance with no recruitment efforts. It also happened to catch all three of us at busy times, and I don't think we were collectively in the right place to start up--nor did we have much help with it. But everything that happened with this took a lot of effort to get going--mostly from people other than myself--and it's much respected.

 

 

The IHL: I really don't want to call this a "failed" community because it ran for a while and I really liked it. In fact, I'd go so far as to say that I had more fun here for a while than I've had in any VHL affiliate league. This was a small community founded by @enigmatic a long time ago, going through various changes in composition and leadership, and was so small that we were about 8 members strong and could directly recruit people we knew to fill openings as needed. But it was a sim league, and in fact an STHS one--each of us had a roster where we were in charge of which players were played where and how their attributes were upgraded. I ran the Nuuk Nukes (that's Greenland for you--and before you guys started creating as Greenlandic here too), and in true Gustav form never won anything. Things came to a rapid halt at one point, less over systemic challenges than in our other examples. Because of this, I don't really want to do a "why" so much as I'd like to reflect positively on the time I spent there and the connections I made with some SHLers and other "money league" people who I hope are doing well.

 

 

So yeah, I haven't seen a sim league start firsthand and actually work in all the time I've been in them in general. It takes a ridiculous amount of effort and organization to get things off the ground in a sustainable way, and I know that it takes more of the same, all the time, to keep it that way. For 16 years, no less! It's more than just an annual observance--it's an annual celebration of a legitimate achievement. Here's to many more.

Yoooooo an SBL mention!

 

Good times!

 

I am planning to bring back a baseball league of some sort shortly and would love to have you join it!