boubabi 4,725 Posted August 5, 2015 Share Posted August 5, 2015 (edited) Oh no, not that fucking douche giving his opinion again. Who cares amirite ? After reading ball's article on last week edition of the VHL Mag (TOPFIVEMVPCANDIDATESATTRADEDEADLINE), I was intrigued by the famous Scotty Campbell Trophy S44 race. Well, is there really a race ? I don't think so. Here's my weakly "boost my self esteem" post. The only true king winner is, Lord Karnage. Let me bring you my main argument. If you are not aware of how the voting works, it's pretty much the same as the other awards where the blue team sends a ballot to every VHL GMs and then collects the votes to decide a winner. Even if it's not a public vote as the Brett Slobodzian Trophy (which rewards the VHL's Most Outstanding Player), I feel like what I will bring to the table will fit for both award. I know you are soaking wet to know what is my main argument...but first... let me bring up the "MVP" definition. In sports, a Most Valuable Player (MVP) award is an honor typically bestowed upon the best-performing player or players on a specific team, in an entire league, or for a particular contest or series of contests. But how can we tell how "helpful' a player is on the ice on a sim league ? Fortunately, (is that even a word?) the sim engine offers us a stat that is directly linked to the "best player on the ice". Of course, more points a player collect, the more "useful" the player seems to be. Well, I think the decision should be more complex than that. That is why the number of stars should be highly considered in those voting. If you watched some Habs games, you can agree that last year's MVP (Carey Price) was often ALWAYS the first star. Not only we was performing every night, he carried his team on his back more often than not. That's my definition of a MVP. So, let's take a look at that stat in this season index. It's pretty easy to understand, but I'll make a brief resume for you. S1 means how many time the player was awarded with the 1st star, S2 was how often the player was rewarded with the 2nd star and S3 was how often the player was rewarded with the 3rd star. Cologne's teammates, Thomas O'Malley and Bismark Koenig, who are respectively 1 and 2, have both 9 1st star. Even if they have a solid team, this means that they were, taken from the sim engine, 9 times the most dominant player of the ice. They both have impressive S2 and S3 stats too. Lets take a look below the 2 Cologne's star, we have Lord Karnage with an impressive 16 1st star award. If we do basic math, this is 5 7 1st star over the second league's best. How good is that ? Some could argue that sometime, if a player is the only elite player in his team, the 1st star award easier to get, but this isn't the case in Stockholm. Stockholm has numerous of player who could steal the show like Slaughter (5 times awarded with the 1st star), 3 Moons (9 times awarded), Light, Campbell, etc. Plus, since the Vikings aren't dominating the league (Davos, Quebec, Calgary and Cologne performing as well as the Vikings), they couldn't be given the excuse that other players doesn't stand a chance to win the 1st star award. Let's take a look at past season to see if that "stat" went with the majority of the GMs' votes. S43 Winner : Tom Slaughter (STO) - 45G 77A 122P +70 (10 times 1st star) League Leader : Bruno Wolf (16 times 1 star) S42 Winner : Martin Brookside (COL) - 34-22-7 .926SV% 1.88GAA 8SO (7 times 1st star) League Leader : Bruno Wolf (17 times 1 star) S41 Winner : Mike Szatkowski Jr. (RIG) - 41-19-4 .926SV% 1.89GAA 13SO (8 times 1st star) League Leader : Bruno Wolf (14 times 1 star) S40 Winner : Wesley Kellinger (COL) - 43G 73A 116P +66 (13 time 1st star) League Leader : Tied Niklas Lindberg & Xin Xie Xiao (14 times 1 star) S39 Winner : Odin Tordahl (NYA) - 65G 62A 127P +71 (22 times 1st star) League Leader : Odin Tordahl (22 times 1st star) S38 Winner : Tuomas Tukio (NYA) - 50-10-4 .937SV% 1.63GAA 13SO (10 times 1st star) League Leader : Tied Lindberg, Zhumbayev, K.Olsen (14 times 1st star) S37 Winner : Tuomas Tukio (QUE) - 43-19-1 .930SV% 1.82GAA 13SO (14 times 1st star) League Leader : Tuomas Tukio (14 times 1st star) S36 Winner : Ethan Osborne (HSK) - 65G 70A 135P +45 (19 times 1st star) League Leader : Ethan Osborne (19 time 1st star) S35 Winner : Michal Wozniak (CGY) - 72G 82A 154P +75 (17 times 1st star) League Leader : Michal Wozniak (17 time 1st star) The Brett Slobodzian trophy seems to follow that rule a bit more often. The player awarded with the most 1st star won the trophy 6 times (S42, S40, S39, S37, S36, S35) in the last 9 seasons. Of course, this shouldn't be the only thing looked at, but I really think this should be at least considered in stats to look at when the voting happens. Hope you enjoyed my article, of course, this could be considered as BIAS but that's folks, my honest opinion. Edited August 5, 2015 by boubabi Link to comment https://vhlforum.com/topic/22773-my-honest-opinion-why-i-think-theres-a-clear-mvp/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kesler 1,514 Posted August 5, 2015 Share Posted August 5, 2015 Only reason why Wolf didnt win it the 3 times was because...ya. Link to comment https://vhlforum.com/topic/22773-my-honest-opinion-why-i-think-theres-a-clear-mvp/#findComment-252949 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Molholt 2,185 Posted August 5, 2015 Share Posted August 5, 2015 Bruno robbed Link to comment https://vhlforum.com/topic/22773-my-honest-opinion-why-i-think-theres-a-clear-mvp/#findComment-252951 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Devise 4,475 Posted August 5, 2015 Share Posted August 5, 2015 Bruno? My vote is for Jake Wylde probably. In a season where Wolf and Thomassen while still very very good aren't the "league dynamos" they have been and Mikealson despite having a relatively average year Wylde is clear cut the best defender in the league this season. I love my Cologne boys but it'll be tough to argue for any of them in regards to MVP given the definition. I've always been a hard on for making sure people try to follow that clearly too. Koenig, O'Malley and Klose are ALL fantastic this season. So how can you argue one was more valuable than the other? STZ 1 Link to comment https://vhlforum.com/topic/22773-my-honest-opinion-why-i-think-theres-a-clear-mvp/#findComment-252965 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kendrick 4,741 Posted August 5, 2015 Share Posted August 5, 2015 It's obvious that Vladdy Komarov is the MVP Link to comment https://vhlforum.com/topic/22773-my-honest-opinion-why-i-think-theres-a-clear-mvp/#findComment-252969 Share on other sites More sharing options...
gorlab 4,321 Posted August 5, 2015 Share Posted August 5, 2015 Karnage & Slaughter >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Koenig & O'Malley Link to comment https://vhlforum.com/topic/22773-my-honest-opinion-why-i-think-theres-a-clear-mvp/#findComment-252972 Share on other sites More sharing options...
CowboyinAmerica 2,890 Posted August 5, 2015 Share Posted August 5, 2015 Wingate Link to comment https://vhlforum.com/topic/22773-my-honest-opinion-why-i-think-theres-a-clear-mvp/#findComment-252983 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jamie 438 Posted August 5, 2015 Share Posted August 5, 2015 The 1st star is weird though. Someone who has 3 points and 10 hits will get the 1st star over someone who has 5 points. Or something ridiculous like 15 shots will sway the 1st star vote. Of course someone who hits is going to get the 1st star more than someone who doesn't. Doesn't mean they are MVP or most dominant on the ice though imo. Phil 1 Link to comment https://vhlforum.com/topic/22773-my-honest-opinion-why-i-think-theres-a-clear-mvp/#findComment-252990 Share on other sites More sharing options...
boubabi 4,725 Posted August 5, 2015 Author Share Posted August 5, 2015 Tukio, Osborne and Lindberg weren't dominating in hits (or simply can't hit (ex Tukio ) and they were still acquiring 1st. In comparaison, XXX and Mcqueen were both dominating in hits but never got that much of 1st stars. (Except once for XXX) I don't remember the season but Robin Gow had like 17 1st star and was a non hitting player. So yes, hitting seems to help but it's a combination of multiple things Link to comment https://vhlforum.com/topic/22773-my-honest-opinion-why-i-think-theres-a-clear-mvp/#findComment-252993 Share on other sites More sharing options...
eaglesfan036 4,603 Posted August 5, 2015 Share Posted August 5, 2015 WinGod for MVP not even klose Link to comment https://vhlforum.com/topic/22773-my-honest-opinion-why-i-think-theres-a-clear-mvp/#findComment-252997 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jamie 438 Posted August 5, 2015 Share Posted August 5, 2015 McQueen also never dominated in points. But if players are fairly even in points, of course the hitter is going to get more 1st stars. Look at the last 6 seasons, there's a hitter every time leading in 1st stars: Wolf Wolf Wolf XXX Tordahl Olsen Link to comment https://vhlforum.com/topic/22773-my-honest-opinion-why-i-think-theres-a-clear-mvp/#findComment-252999 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderator Baozi 1,658 Posted August 5, 2015 Moderator Share Posted August 5, 2015 (edited) McQueen also never dominated in points. But if players are fairly even in points, of course the hitter is going to get more 1st stars. Look at the last 6 seasons, there's a hitter every time leading in 1st stars: Wolf Wolf Wolf XXX Tordahl Olsen Cuz we are awesome. Actually I've always been a proponent of the star system as a way to rate performance, but its hard to say what the sim factors into the equation which means other people are hesitant to do so because they can't build players towards high probability of star rating But yeah, 1st star leads are MVP in my books. Edited August 5, 2015 by tfong Link to comment https://vhlforum.com/topic/22773-my-honest-opinion-why-i-think-theres-a-clear-mvp/#findComment-253013 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ball 453 Posted August 5, 2015 Share Posted August 5, 2015 Someone read my article? Sweet! Also as I stated, I couldnt decide who I thought would win the MVP this season. I personally thought you were the MVP at the time (havent checked the stats in a while so forgive me), but due to the leagues track record, I gave the slight nod to O'Malley. Because, as I stated time and time again in the article, offense makes the world go round in the VHL. So I went with my brain over my gut feeling. As for the stars debate, it is interesting but I dont feel that they should be included into MVP voting whatsoever. They seem to random for my liking and I dont see them as a reliable way to choose between two contenders in a tight race. Fuck id rather flip a coin then go by them. Just my thought process though and I would love to find out how the sim goes about giving out the stars honestly. Link to comment https://vhlforum.com/topic/22773-my-honest-opinion-why-i-think-theres-a-clear-mvp/#findComment-253028 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ball 453 Posted August 5, 2015 Share Posted August 5, 2015 Oh yeah I forgot. Wingate is MVP, sorry boys Link to comment https://vhlforum.com/topic/22773-my-honest-opinion-why-i-think-theres-a-clear-mvp/#findComment-253029 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Higgins 3,618 Posted August 5, 2015 Share Posted August 5, 2015 3 stars aren't fucky at all Link to comment https://vhlforum.com/topic/22773-my-honest-opinion-why-i-think-theres-a-clear-mvp/#findComment-253081 Share on other sites More sharing options...
CowboyinAmerica 2,890 Posted August 5, 2015 Share Posted August 5, 2015 McQueen also never dominated in points. But if players are fairly even in points, of course the hitter is going to get more 1st stars. Look at the last 6 seasons, there's a hitter every time leading in 1st stars: Wolf Wolf Wolf XXX Tordahl Olsen Wait, Olsen once led the league in 1st stars? In that case... Karnage for MVP! And these other 6 applied retroactively! Link to comment https://vhlforum.com/topic/22773-my-honest-opinion-why-i-think-theres-a-clear-mvp/#findComment-253117 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Molholt 2,185 Posted August 5, 2015 Share Posted August 5, 2015 The "other Olsen" led the league in 1st stars? Clearly a flawed statistic. Link to comment https://vhlforum.com/topic/22773-my-honest-opinion-why-i-think-theres-a-clear-mvp/#findComment-253119 Share on other sites More sharing options...
sterling 1,997 Posted August 5, 2015 Share Posted August 5, 2015 Definitely is flawed Link to comment https://vhlforum.com/topic/22773-my-honest-opinion-why-i-think-theres-a-clear-mvp/#findComment-253131 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Admin Victor 10,943 Posted August 5, 2015 Admin Share Posted August 5, 2015 Only reason why Wolf didnt win it the 3 times was because he would have achieved shit all without Askel Thomassen.finished that for you Phil 1 Link to comment https://vhlforum.com/topic/22773-my-honest-opinion-why-i-think-theres-a-clear-mvp/#findComment-253168 Share on other sites More sharing options...
boubabi 4,725 Posted August 5, 2015 Author Share Posted August 5, 2015 What if Thomassen would have acheived shit all without Wolf. Insert a picture of philosoraptor Link to comment https://vhlforum.com/topic/22773-my-honest-opinion-why-i-think-theres-a-clear-mvp/#findComment-253188 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil 5,119 Posted August 5, 2015 Share Posted August 5, 2015 What if Villeneuve hadn't been inactive for 4 seasons? Link to comment https://vhlforum.com/topic/22773-my-honest-opinion-why-i-think-theres-a-clear-mvp/#findComment-253191 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil 5,119 Posted August 5, 2015 Share Posted August 5, 2015 What if Villeneuve hadn't been inactive for 4 seasons? He would have still sucked. stevo 1 Link to comment https://vhlforum.com/topic/22773-my-honest-opinion-why-i-think-theres-a-clear-mvp/#findComment-253193 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Admin Victor 10,943 Posted August 5, 2015 Admin Share Posted August 5, 2015 What if Thomassen would have acheived shit all without Wolf. Insert a picture of philosoraptor well it's true. they're both useless without the other. Link to comment https://vhlforum.com/topic/22773-my-honest-opinion-why-i-think-theres-a-clear-mvp/#findComment-253200 Share on other sites More sharing options...
boubabi 4,725 Posted August 5, 2015 Author Share Posted August 5, 2015 Wingate Link to comment https://vhlforum.com/topic/22773-my-honest-opinion-why-i-think-theres-a-clear-mvp/#findComment-253210 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kesler 1,514 Posted August 6, 2015 Share Posted August 6, 2015 finished that for you still mad brovalenko > chershenko Link to comment https://vhlforum.com/topic/22773-my-honest-opinion-why-i-think-theres-a-clear-mvp/#findComment-253470 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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