wtf is this trade

[Victor 10,937]

So as I was updating this thread which almost certainly no one uses but is kinda cool to me anyway, I came across a trade that has fallen through the cracks in this crazy off-season.

To

S45 SEA 1st (G Ariel Weinstein)

To

S45 RIG 1st (G Sandro Clegane)

S46 RIG 2nd

Riga Reign GM: Steve Smeall

Cologne Express GM: Ryan Power

Trade thread: http://www.vhlforum.com/index.php?/topic/23304-rigcol-s44-off-season/

I don't understand why this trade took place. The trade which gave Riga Thomassen and Denis sent the Weinstein pick to Quebec, who wanted third overall in the first place. In the thread, Toast (Riga GM Smeall) says that this trade enables him to get a player he wanted. But who? It was common knowledge that Phil Hamilton and Greg Clegane were going first and second overall to Helsinki. As Riga was one of few teams with no interest in goaltenders, they presumably targeted Biggu Kyanon. But as things stood, the team picking ahead of them (Cologne) had no interest in Kyanon as far as I know. Riga also had no need to fear that Quebec would trade up and grab Kyanon since they obviously needed a goalie (and eventually got him once Riga dealt third overall).

The only logical chain I could construct was that Riga was afraid Cologne, due to a preference for Sandro Clegane over Weinstein, were fine with letting Clegane fall to sixth (with NY picking Weinstein fifth) and taking Kyanon ahead of the Reign. But of course not only could Riga then been dicks to Cologne to negate this risk, this very trade pretty much disproves the theory. If Cologne was considering such a move, it was not used as any leverage in a trade which gave very little extra for moving down a pick.

So why did this trade happen? Why was Quebec pissed off when they got the pick anyway? Who was Riga targeting who they suddenly decided to not draft after all? How did Cologne benefit? And more importantly, why were these two scrubs drafted in the top four?

[scoop 3,426]

btw I actually used the trade tracker thread all the time when I was updating player movement

[scoop 3,426]

I also use it sometimes to look back on Keiji Toriyama's greatest moments.

 

 

I had forgotten about that Brovalenko trade

[boubabi 4,725]

quebec was considering kyanon if the goaltenders wouldn't wanted to play for qc. 

Edited September 11, 2015 by boubabi

[Victor 10,937]

I had forgotten about that Brovalenko trade

I'm surprised Greg ever spoke to me again afterwards.

quebec was considering kyanon if the goaltenders wouldn't wanted to play for qc.

Yeah but one of them was Jardy so no cares.

[Tagger 2,722]

 

 

. Riga also had no need to fear that Quebec would trade up and grab Kyanon since they obviously needed a goalie (and eventually got him once Riga dealt third overall).

 

Perhaps Riga's concern was that Quebec were going to have Kesler's recreate play in goal and trade with Cologne to pick Kyanon at #3? That would leave Riga stuck at #4 with either a choice of two goalies they didn't need or Nezhmetdinov (who is a good first-gen, but quite a step below Kyanon in TPE)

 

I think if that's what Riga felt, then the trade makes more sense and would explain Kesler's reaction. 

Edited September 11, 2015 by XaviYEAH! Woods

[gorlab 4,321]

illuminati 

[Kesler 1,514]

I was in talks for 4th for weeks, finally got a deal done then. After Device was outbid for 4th (which he really had a shitty offer imo) decided to fuck me over and move down from 3 to 4 because he refused to take a goalie at 3. So he then made me over pay for 3rd but whatever.

[Kendrick 4,741]

Loved it.

[stevo 792]

I was in talks for 4th for weeks, finally got a deal done then. After Device was outbid for 4th (which he really had a shitty offer imo) decided to fuck me over and move down from 3 to 4 because he refused to take a goalie at 3. So he then made me over pay for 3rd but whatever.

 

From what I know, that isn't the full story.

[Kesler 1,514]

From what I know, that isn't the full story.

Hmm then idk what you heard.

[Devise 4,475]

I had originally wanted Fong and Jardy Victor. Both had told me via chat/PM that they'd be interested in coming to Cologne, and I was happy to give up O'Malley if that was part of my return. 

 

I had originally targeted trading 6th overall to Riga for 4th. The reason? I could take Biggu from them at third, they didn't need a goalie and they could of still gotten their player as it was NY who drafted fifth and they were quite obviously going to take a goalie if the option was available.

 

Then introduce Kesler. Who taunted and targeted me on chat, as he had a better offer for 4th than mine. Mine was just this deal the other way, because at the time there was no other bidders. It makes no sense not to trade down and get another 2nd to get the exact same player you were going to get anyways, It's a free pick to use as leverage. Kesler had a huge offer on the table for 4th, an offer that he basically ended up paying for third. 

 

But once I realized I no longer could get Fong and Jardy in the same draft class, I decided to screw Kesler over. Mostly because he challenged me to. When we were chatting he kept taunting me with "you want Fong? Then go ahead and draft him, but you aint getting Fong and a goalie! You want a goalie? Then I'm drafting Fong!" I told him he wouldn't like me when I improvised, and he laughed it off.

 

Hence this trade. At the time, Riga was hesitant about trading for Frank because competing now in Europe seemed like a tough bargain. But it was the best offer on the table. However trading up, gave them the opportunity to get Fong. A fantastic opportunity for them, as Fong was younger and a better fit for Riga than Frank was. Knowing that I couldn't get both Fong and a goalie anymore, this was my improvisation. Kesler went livid, because at the time, it created a gap where he went from getting a player in the top four, to not getting one at all. 

 

But then Kesler was able to improsive, and offer even more for the 1st than he was originally offering. Either way I'm happy with my result. I recognized that I wasn't able to get Fong and a goalie, instead got Jardy and Evgeny, gained a 2nd to be able to use to trade away to fill my roster, and forced a fellow GM in Quebec to completely overpay for his goalie. 

 

Both Quebec and I entered the off-season in similar minds, sort of rebuild. I was able to trade my biggest asset for 2 1st's, two draft picks that are players that help the future of Cologne very well. But I was also able to take one of those picks, turn it into a 2nd, (and then into another player) and on top of that force Quebec to trade their biggest asset with another player and two 2nds just to get their goalie. All in all I'd say I'm pretty happy with that result.

 

So no, I don't see what is confusing about this trade. 

Edited September 12, 2015 by Mr. Power

[Munk 1,298]

I had originally wanted Fong and Jardy Victor. Both had told me via chat/PM that they'd be interested in coming to Cologne, and I was happy to give up O'Malley if that was part of my return. 

 

I had originally targeted trading 6th overall to Riga for 4th. The reason? I could take Biggu from them at third, they didn't need a goalie and they could of still gotten their player as it was NY who drafted fifth and they were quite obviously going to take a goalie if the option was available.

 

Then introduce Kesler. Who taunted and targeted me on chat, as he had a better offer for 4th than mine. Mine was just this deal the other way, because at the time there was no other bidders. It makes no sense not to trade down and get another 2nd to get the exact same player you were going to get anyways, It's a free pick to use as leverage. Kesler had a huge offer on the table for 4th, an offer that he basically ended up paying for third. 

 

But once I realized I no longer could get Fong and Jardy in the same draft class, I decided to screw Kesler over. Mostly because he challenged me to. When we were chatting he kept taunting me with "you want Fong? Then go ahead and draft him, but you aint getting Fong and a goalie! You want a goalie? Then I'm drafting Fong!" I told him he wouldn't like me when I improvised, and he laughed it off.

 

Hence this trade. At the time, Riga was hesitant about trading for Frank because competing now in Europe seemed like a tough bargain. But it was the best offer on the table. However trading up, gave them the opportunity to get Fong. A fantastic opportunity for them, as Fong was younger and a better fit for Riga than Frank was. Knowing that I couldn't get both Fong and a goalie anymore, this was my improvisation. Kesler went livid, because at the time, it created a gap where he went from getting a player in the top four, to not getting one at all. 

 

But then Kesler was able to improsive, and offer even more for the 1st than he was originally offering. Either way I'm happy with my result. I recognized that I wasn't able to get Fong and a goalie, instead got Jardy and Evgeny, gained a 2nd to be able to use to trade away to fill my roster, and forced a fellow GM in Quebec to completely overpay for his goalie. 

 

Both Quebec and I entered the off-season in similar minds, sort of rebuild. I was able to trade my biggest asset for 2 1st's, two draft picks that are players that help the future of Cologne very well. But I was also able to take one of those picks, turn it into a 2nd, (and then into another player) and on top of that force Quebec to trade their biggest asset with another player and two 2nds just to get their goalie. All in all I'd say I'm pretty happy with that result.

 

So no, I don't see what is confusing about this trade. 

i cud hawe said it better but gj 

[Kesler 1,514]

Device is a dick, thats what we get from this trade.

[Advantage 2,891]

Device is a dick, thats what we get from this trade.

Not what I got from it

[Victor 10,937]

So nothing would have actually changed if this trade hadn't happened.

[Devise 4,475]

So nothing would have actually changed if this trade hadn't happened.

Not correct at all. Quebec would of drafted fourth not third, who was drafted could of changed and I wouldn't of had the second I used to get Karlsson.

[boubabi 4,725]

funny thing is kesler screwed me on a trade too 

[Devise 4,475]

funny thing is kesler screwed me on a trade too

Were you going to go after 4th overall as well?

[Victor 10,937]

He probably means the voided trade where more Viking players were heading to Quebec, not just Stokes and Morgan.

That and the Mikaelson trade drama - it's been an interesting couple weeks for Quebec to be sure.

[TheLastOlympian07 2,388]

Kesler for GMOTY

[Kesler 1,514]

funny thing is kesler screwed me on a trade too 

the fuck are you talking about? You so you actually screwed me.

[Renomitsu 934]

[Victor 10,937]

the fuck are you talking about? You so you actually screwed me.

you so you shipped me off!!!11!!

[Baozi 1,658]

And here I thought it was my bad interview with Kesler that made him scared to pick me.