eaglesfan036 4,605 Posted June 30, 2016 Share Posted June 30, 2016 Pros and Cons of Two Player Proposal Now that I've attracted your attention with that catchy title, I would like everyone to consider the pros and cons of the two player proposal. People naturally have an aversion to change, myself included, and the moment I heard this proposal my thoughts were something along the lines of, "OMG CHANGE BAD NEW STUFF BAD." However, Aristotle once said, "It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it." Since I am clearly more educated than Aristotle, I have entertained the thought of the two player proposal, and I am no longer as entirely against it as I once was. Pros Change - While change should not be done for the sake of change, it does bring a lot of excitement to the league. Adding second players will bring a lot of excitement to the league, especially if expansion becomes involved Encourages Point Tasks - In order to successfully have two players, members will have to do point tasks. This is because under the current proposal, welfare cannot be used for both of your two players. A combo of welfare + point task is allowed, which is probably what many members will wind up doing. Members who want to have the fun of having two players will have to do at least one point task, which will help increase activity. Additionally, some people will be churning out two point tasks a week, adding to the activity as well. Increases VHLM and Locker Room Activity - With members being allowed to create second players, this means that more players will be created, meaning more new players and more players in the VHLM. Additionally, with one member having players in two separate locker rooms, more activity can be generated in the locker rooms as well. More for People to do - Every season there is a good amount of members sitting there on rebuilding teams with few members, and not much to look forward to besides losing. Rebuilding is a necessity unfortunately, but members would be much more patient in sitting through a rebuild if their second player was on a more active and competitive team. Unique Recruitment Tool - By having two players, the VHL would become unique compared to other sim leagues. Perhaps members in other sim leagues would hear about the two player proposal and think perhaps they will give the VHL a shot. Cons Too Many Tpe Whores - The main people who will be taking advantage of the two-player proposal will be the VHL's tpe whores, as they are the ones who would most likely be willing to put in the time and effort to create and develop a second player. With double the tpe whores running around, that is double the star players, making it much harder for the VHL's average Joe Schmo or new member to do well in the league. The rich will get richer and the poor will get poorer. Very Hard to Reverse - If the two player proposal is passed and is deemed a failure many seasons later, it will be very hard to reverse. Members would not take kindly to seeing all of their hard work in their second player destroyed. Additionally, salary cap, expansion, and much more is likely coming along with the two player proposal, making it that much harder to reverse. Two Players Allowed on One Team - This is my biggest beef with the two player proposal, as allowing both players on one team gets rid of almost all of the pros listed above. Also, while the rules may say a second player can't sign with the first's team in free agency, there are ways to skirt around this. You can have rules in place, but I still think things will get iffy and messy. Additionally, we have a hard enough time finding enough quality GMs to fill out the GM spots already, but with the two player rule it almost feels like in order to be a successful GM you are going to need to find the time to create two players and have both of them on your team. If we eliminated allowing both of your players to be on the same team, I would be much happier with this rule. Elimination of Rivalries - Rivalries are fun and help fuel the competitive fire of the league. However, with two players many members will often come into a situation where each of their players is playing against each other for a shot at the cup or playoff victory, in what are win-win situations. With additional players giving double the chance of winning the cup, I feel as though the cup wins will be watered down as they will be attained much more often. Link to comment https://vhlforum.com/topic/31785-claimedwhy-the-two-player-proposal-is-hot-garbage-reviewed/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
FacePuncher 1,343 Posted June 30, 2016 Share Posted June 30, 2016 As a TPE whore, I find no fault in this Link to comment https://vhlforum.com/topic/31785-claimedwhy-the-two-player-proposal-is-hot-garbage-reviewed/#findComment-354339 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Da Trifecta 1,902 Posted June 30, 2016 Share Posted June 30, 2016 Title should read Why the Calgary Wranglers are hot garbage Link to comment https://vhlforum.com/topic/31785-claimedwhy-the-two-player-proposal-is-hot-garbage-reviewed/#findComment-354365 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Higgins 3,618 Posted June 30, 2016 Share Posted June 30, 2016 There's rivalries? Link to comment https://vhlforum.com/topic/31785-claimedwhy-the-two-player-proposal-is-hot-garbage-reviewed/#findComment-354379 Share on other sites More sharing options...
diamond_ace 3,114 Posted June 30, 2016 Share Posted June 30, 2016 Why the phrase "hot garbage" is cold garbage FacePuncher 1 Link to comment https://vhlforum.com/topic/31785-claimedwhy-the-two-player-proposal-is-hot-garbage-reviewed/#findComment-354448 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kendrick 4,741 Posted June 30, 2016 Share Posted June 30, 2016 I agree two-players would suck. Link to comment https://vhlforum.com/topic/31785-claimedwhy-the-two-player-proposal-is-hot-garbage-reviewed/#findComment-354453 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderator Baozi 1,664 Posted June 30, 2016 Moderator Share Posted June 30, 2016 8 hours ago, Higgins said: There's rivalries? @brovy vs @Kendrick Link to comment https://vhlforum.com/topic/31785-claimedwhy-the-two-player-proposal-is-hot-garbage-reviewed/#findComment-354455 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kendrick 4,741 Posted June 30, 2016 Share Posted June 30, 2016 30 minutes ago, tfong said: @brovy vs @Kendrick That's not a rivalry, he hasn't won shit. der meister 1 Link to comment https://vhlforum.com/topic/31785-claimedwhy-the-two-player-proposal-is-hot-garbage-reviewed/#findComment-354476 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Admin Victor 11,043 Posted June 30, 2016 Admin Share Posted June 30, 2016 17 hours ago, eaglesfan036 said: Members would not take kindly to seeing all of their hard work in their second player destroyed. Why would it be destroyed? Gradual implementation, gradual removal if necessary. Second players play til retirement and no feelings get hurt. 17 hours ago, eaglesfan036 said: but with the two player rule it almost feels like in order to be a successful GM you are going to need to find the time to create two players and have both of them on your team. but.... why? 17 hours ago, eaglesfan036 said: Rivalries are fun and help fuel the competitive fire of the league. Higgins beat me to it but seriously, there are no rivalries. And even when we had rivalries, it was led by 3-4 members. Lots of members involved didn't care or had mixed loyalties anyway because of their past with the other team/team's players. Link to comment https://vhlforum.com/topic/31785-claimedwhy-the-two-player-proposal-is-hot-garbage-reviewed/#findComment-354495 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kesler 1,514 Posted June 30, 2016 Share Posted June 30, 2016 2 hours ago, Kendrick said: That's not a rivalry. Yup my players are on an elite level where yours are on a level mediocrity and irrelevance. eaglesfan036, Will and frescoelmo 3 Link to comment https://vhlforum.com/topic/31785-claimedwhy-the-two-player-proposal-is-hot-garbage-reviewed/#findComment-354514 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kendrick 4,741 Posted June 30, 2016 Share Posted June 30, 2016 Just now, brovy said: Yup my players are on an elite level where yours are on a level mediocrity and irrelevance. Yes good point because you have more HOF bids than I do, more cups and more trophies, hell no one can forget your cup as a GM, it was such a glorious season. Link to comment https://vhlforum.com/topic/31785-claimedwhy-the-two-player-proposal-is-hot-garbage-reviewed/#findComment-354516 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shaka 228 Posted June 30, 2016 Share Posted June 30, 2016 @Molholt BeanSobie 1 Link to comment https://vhlforum.com/topic/31785-claimedwhy-the-two-player-proposal-is-hot-garbage-reviewed/#findComment-354533 Share on other sites More sharing options...
FacePuncher 1,343 Posted July 1, 2016 Share Posted July 1, 2016 to give actual discussion: 20 hours ago, eaglesfan036 said: Too Many Tpe Whores - The main people who will be taking advantage of the two-player proposal will be the VHL's tpe whores, as they are the ones who would most likely be willing to put in the time and effort to create and develop a second player. With double the tpe whores running around, that is double the star players, making it much harder for the VHL's average Joe Schmo or new member to do well in the league. The rich will get richer and the poor will get poorer. will they though? I mean i cant speak for everyone else in the league, but I would use my player as one part experimental, one part when im bored. I wouldnt put the same kind of effort into my second player as i do now. might even think about doing welfare for the second guy, though the thought pains me! 20 hours ago, eaglesfan036 said: Very Hard to Reverse - If the two player proposal is passed and is deemed a failure many seasons later, it will be very hard to reverse. Members would not take kindly to seeing all of their hard work in their second player destroyed. Additionally, salary cap, expansion, and much more is likely coming along with the two player proposal, making it that much harder to reverse. What Victor said. 21 hours ago, eaglesfan036 said: Two Players Allowed on One Team - This is my biggest beef with the two player proposal, as allowing both players on one team gets rid of almost all of the pros listed above. Also, while the rules may say a second player can't sign with the first's team in free agency, there are ways to skirt around this. You can have rules in place, but I still think things will get iffy and messy. Additionally, we have a hard enough time finding enough quality GMs to fill out the GM spots already, but with the two player rule it almost feels like in order to be a successful GM you are going to need to find the time to create two players and have both of them on your team. If we eliminated allowing both of your players to be on the same team, I would be much happier with this rule. I myself dont understand the opposition of having two players on one team. Actually, i just dont know what it is......could you enlighten me? then i could give an actual opinion on this haha 21 hours ago, eaglesfan036 said: Elimination of Rivalries - Rivalries are fun and help fuel the competitive fire of the league. However, with two players many members will often come into a situation where each of their players is playing against each other for a shot at the cup or playoff victory, in what are win-win situations. With additional players giving double the chance of winning the cup, I feel as though the cup wins will be watered down as they will be attained much more often. would it, though? I mean second player or not, im still not going to join Quebec, Kendrick and brovy still arent going to team up, GMs will still have their rivals based off of past experiences, and Robbie is still going to do his thing. The only thing that i would see changing are the teams holding the grudges, the members that made those grudges will still be alive and well Link to comment https://vhlforum.com/topic/31785-claimedwhy-the-two-player-proposal-is-hot-garbage-reviewed/#findComment-354540 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Senior Admin Will 4,662 Posted July 1, 2016 Senior Admin Share Posted July 1, 2016 More TPE whores was initially my biggest concern too but the more i thought about it I don't think it will be a problem. I doubt many people will do two PTs a week and if they do, all the power to them. Personally I'll be perfectly content having my one main player and then a mostly welfare 2nd player just to be able to be teammates with different people and have something else to watch in the sim. Da Trifecta 1 Link to comment https://vhlforum.com/topic/31785-claimedwhy-the-two-player-proposal-is-hot-garbage-reviewed/#findComment-354634 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Higgins 3,618 Posted July 1, 2016 Share Posted July 1, 2016 I can't wait to start the VHLHockeyFights.com website for a league of second line fighters as secondary players eaglesfan036 and FacePuncher 2 Link to comment https://vhlforum.com/topic/31785-claimedwhy-the-two-player-proposal-is-hot-garbage-reviewed/#findComment-354727 Share on other sites More sharing options...
FacePuncher 1,343 Posted July 1, 2016 Share Posted July 1, 2016 5 minutes ago, Higgins said: I can't wait to start the VHLHockeyFights.com website for a league of second line fighters as secondary players Hell yeah! Link to comment https://vhlforum.com/topic/31785-claimedwhy-the-two-player-proposal-is-hot-garbage-reviewed/#findComment-354731 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil 5,133 Posted July 8, 2016 Share Posted July 8, 2016 Feedback Okay... this has been sitting here for over a week. Time to give it some real loved and respect @eaglesfan036 - First off... it threw me right the fuck off when you quoted Aristole. That came out of left field... or the neutral zone, if we are sticking to hockey analogies. Well played, good sir. - " it does bring a lot of excitement to the league. Adding second players will bring a lot of excitement to the league, " <---- Word repetitive wording is repetitive when so many words are used to repeat wordy wording. - I chuckled at your rebuilding point. You WOULD know about the rebuilding boringness. - Great article and you hit the nail on the head with multiple points. I am nervous and excitement about the 2-player rule. I think it's a little sad that a GM would not be able to attain a player he may desperately need just because that player happens to me the player of an agent with another player on the team. That being said, because there will be more players... their should be way more options out there. I want to add that this would also make trade deadlines and free agency WAY more exciting! There will undoubtedly be more moving pieces throughout the season and during the off-season and I honestly can't wait for it to come into place. Great article babe. Sorry you had to wait so long for it to be reviewed. eaglesfan036 1 Link to comment https://vhlforum.com/topic/31785-claimedwhy-the-two-player-proposal-is-hot-garbage-reviewed/#findComment-356395 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderator frescoelmo 1,282 Posted July 8, 2016 Moderator Share Posted July 8, 2016 eaglesfan036 and FacePuncher 2 Link to comment https://vhlforum.com/topic/31785-claimedwhy-the-two-player-proposal-is-hot-garbage-reviewed/#findComment-356525 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Higgins 3,618 Posted July 8, 2016 Share Posted July 8, 2016 3 minutes ago, frescoelmo said: Good point Fresco, this could affect World Cup We may need to bring back more European teams as we get more 2nd players created? frescoelmo 1 Link to comment https://vhlforum.com/topic/31785-claimedwhy-the-two-player-proposal-is-hot-garbage-reviewed/#findComment-356527 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Senior Admin Will 4,662 Posted July 8, 2016 Senior Admin Share Posted July 8, 2016 On 6/29/2016 at 11:48 PM, eaglesfan036 said: This is my biggest beef with the two player proposal, as allowing both players on one team gets rid of almost all of the pros listed above. Also, while the rules may say a second player can't sign with the first's team in free agency, there are ways to skirt around this. Just want to add that this has been touched on somewhere and in all likelihood work-arounds like sign and trades would be outlawed. Link to comment https://vhlforum.com/topic/31785-claimedwhy-the-two-player-proposal-is-hot-garbage-reviewed/#findComment-356553 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Evans 305 Posted July 10, 2016 Share Posted July 10, 2016 Review: I like the two player proposal, but I am very glad that virtually every single potential thing that can go wrong is being brought up. Something like is going not hard to implement, but very hard to reverse if things go absolutely horrible. I think it could deff reignite a spark for the league so I am excited to see it happen. Link to comment https://vhlforum.com/topic/31785-claimedwhy-the-two-player-proposal-is-hot-garbage-reviewed/#findComment-356783 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kendrick 4,741 Posted July 18, 2016 Share Posted July 18, 2016 Claimed Link to comment https://vhlforum.com/topic/31785-claimedwhy-the-two-player-proposal-is-hot-garbage-reviewed/#findComment-359236 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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