BOOM 8,817 Posted January 8, 2014 Share Posted January 8, 2014 I guess this stays open then until a decision gets made....go at it! Link to comment https://vhlforum.com/topic/3549-vhlm-waiver-discussion/page/15/#findComment-27494 Share on other sites More sharing options...
RomanesEuntDomus 442 Posted January 8, 2014 Share Posted January 8, 2014 Sounds fine. We can also reduce starting attributes to 35 and give players customization. That's too big of a change imho to just implement it and would need some further discussion instead. Let's stick to the simpler things for now and not do too much at once. I wouldn't take the training camp points away from the achievement tracker or any other PT by the way. If you aren't a recreate it is still pretty hard to get TPE, a rookie camp won't really change that. Link to comment https://vhlforum.com/topic/3549-vhlm-waiver-discussion/page/15/#findComment-27496 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seth 92 Posted January 8, 2014 Share Posted January 8, 2014 So do we do a VHLM Training Camp +10 (same as the VHL Training Camp) - for First-Gens then: VHLM Achievement tracker (with 20 TPE cap) like it always was? If so we should throw it around to the blue team and see what happens Link to comment https://vhlforum.com/topic/3549-vhlm-waiver-discussion/page/15/#findComment-27498 Share on other sites More sharing options...
RomanesEuntDomus 442 Posted January 8, 2014 Share Posted January 8, 2014 I guess this stays open then until a decision gets made....go at it! I guess Victor just has to come in and make the call, otherwise we'll probably just keep running in circles Link to comment https://vhlforum.com/topic/3549-vhlm-waiver-discussion/page/15/#findComment-27499 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted January 8, 2014 Share Posted January 8, 2014 That's too big of a change imho to just implement it and would need some further discussion instead. Let's stick to the simpler things for now and not do too much at once. I wouldn't take the training camp points away from the achievement tracker or any other PT by the way. If you aren't a recreate it is still pretty hard to get TPE, a rookie camp won't really change that. Yes but a recreate gets carryover, that's why I said First-Gens Link to comment https://vhlforum.com/topic/3549-vhlm-waiver-discussion/page/15/#findComment-27501 Share on other sites More sharing options...
RomanesEuntDomus 442 Posted January 8, 2014 Share Posted January 8, 2014 Yes but a recreate gets carryover, that's why I said First-Gens Wouldn't mind restricting it to first-gens either, although i don't think it's really necessary. We have many recreates whose previous players never amounted to much, I think they should be eligible for it as well. Link to comment https://vhlforum.com/topic/3549-vhlm-waiver-discussion/page/15/#findComment-27503 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Grumpy Bear 347 Posted January 8, 2014 Share Posted January 8, 2014 Throwing more free TPE at new players is not the answer to activity. Activity will be partly to do with how people are treated and helped along and partly to do with desire to be hear and how fun the people find it. You aren't going to find a majic formula to keep every person who comes so don't try to. The rules and such just put in place were enough for now, how about we sit back and see how that does before doing stupid shit. STZ 1 Link to comment https://vhlforum.com/topic/3549-vhlm-waiver-discussion/page/15/#findComment-27505 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted January 8, 2014 Share Posted January 8, 2014 Wouldn't mind restricting it to first-gens either, although i don't think it's really necessary. We have many recreates whose previous players never amounted to much, I think they should be eligible for it as well. Well yeah but the only thing is that Carryover for guys who get well over 40+ TPE is based on a percentage. If you give them another 10 TPE that restriction gets skewed because they get a huge lead in TPE then. Example. Tom Slaughter gets another 10 TPE to go with the carryover he had (thats a huge head start). People already complain that players with carryover have a huge advantage. Link to comment https://vhlforum.com/topic/3549-vhlm-waiver-discussion/page/15/#findComment-27507 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted January 8, 2014 Share Posted January 8, 2014 Throwing more free TPE at new players is not the answer to activity. Activity will be partly to do with how people are treated and helped along and partly to do with desire to be hear and how fun the people find it. You aren't going to find a majic formula to keep every person who comes so don't try to. The rules and such just put in place were enough for now, how about we sit back and see how that does before doing stupid shit. Well calling it stupid shit is kind of offensive, as its a long discussion about a lot to things. However leaving the discussion open to find the right pitch to give to the blue team isn't a bad thing. Otherwise, you are just telling us to keep quiet about discussion around the league (something it lacks). Link to comment https://vhlforum.com/topic/3549-vhlm-waiver-discussion/page/15/#findComment-27510 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corco 1,266 Posted January 8, 2014 Share Posted January 8, 2014 Sounds fine. We can also reduce starting attributes to 35 and give players customization. No Link to comment https://vhlforum.com/topic/3549-vhlm-waiver-discussion/page/15/#findComment-27512 Share on other sites More sharing options...
RomanesEuntDomus 442 Posted January 8, 2014 Share Posted January 8, 2014 (edited) Well yeah but the only thing is that Carryover for guys who get well over 40+ TPE is based on a percentage. If you give them another 10 TPE that restriction gets skewed because they get a huge lead in TPE then. Example. Tom Slaughter gets another 10 TPE to go with the carryover he had (thats a huge head start). People already complain that players with carryover have a huge advantage. Nobody gets a bigger lead if everyone gets the same amount of TPE from camp. If anything we'd need to change carryover if we wanted to do something about the advantages for Recreates (which is a whole different topic though that doesn't really belong here). Edited January 8, 2014 by RomanesEuntDomus Link to comment https://vhlforum.com/topic/3549-vhlm-waiver-discussion/page/15/#findComment-27513 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corco 1,266 Posted January 8, 2014 Share Posted January 8, 2014 VHLM Training camp for first gens only in their draft season, ex: If we had one this year, only S37 draftees could participate (5 TPE) Achievement Tracker has a max of 15 TPE for recreates, remains 20 TPE max for first gens. Link to comment https://vhlforum.com/topic/3549-vhlm-waiver-discussion/page/15/#findComment-27517 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fire Tortorella 2,653 Posted January 8, 2014 Share Posted January 8, 2014 VHLM Training camp for first gens only in their draft season, ex: If we had one this year, only S37 draftees could participate (5 TPE) Achievement Tracker has a max of 15 TPE for recreates, remains 20 TPE max for first gens. Really think we should keep Achievement Tracker the same for everyone just to keep things simpler. First gens may end up with 5 more TPE than they would have before, but that's not really a huge deal IMO. Link to comment https://vhlforum.com/topic/3549-vhlm-waiver-discussion/page/15/#findComment-27520 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted January 8, 2014 Share Posted January 8, 2014 VHLM Training camp for first gens only in their draft season, ex: If we had one this year, only S37 draftees could participate (5 TPE) Achievement Tracker has a max of 15 TPE for recreates, remains 20 TPE max for first gens. You realize you are in fact taking away 5 TPE a re-create gets from suggesting that right? Link to comment https://vhlforum.com/topic/3549-vhlm-waiver-discussion/page/15/#findComment-27521 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toast 887 Posted January 8, 2014 Share Posted January 8, 2014 I don't think that more free TPE is the answer to increasing activity. Re-creates have worked hard for their carryover and I doubt that many new members think of the lead as something that bothers them. If a GM is playing them behind a line of re-creates then it makes sense but other than that I don't see it as an issue. I just don't see the reason the change the Achievement Tracker or to add a training camp. Link to comment https://vhlforum.com/topic/3549-vhlm-waiver-discussion/page/15/#findComment-27523 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corco 1,266 Posted January 8, 2014 Share Posted January 8, 2014 You realize you are in fact taking away 5 TPE a re-create gets from suggesting that right? They already get their boost from carryover. Link to comment https://vhlforum.com/topic/3549-vhlm-waiver-discussion/page/15/#findComment-27526 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted January 8, 2014 Share Posted January 8, 2014 They already get their boost from carryover. That's always been the case though. Thats a change that will be shot down by a large majority. Link to comment https://vhlforum.com/topic/3549-vhlm-waiver-discussion/page/15/#findComment-27528 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corco 1,266 Posted January 8, 2014 Share Posted January 8, 2014 That's always been the case though. Thats a change that will be shot down by a large majority. Alright, but are we in agreement on VHLM Training Camp worth 5 TPE only for first generation, not yet VHL drafted players? Link to comment https://vhlforum.com/topic/3549-vhlm-waiver-discussion/page/15/#findComment-27539 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted January 8, 2014 Share Posted January 8, 2014 Alright, but are we in agreement on VHLM Training Camp worth 5 TPE only for first generation, not yet VHL drafted players? I agree there. 5 or 10, whatever, as long as the notion to be apart of a "team" thing is there right away like that Link to comment https://vhlforum.com/topic/3549-vhlm-waiver-discussion/page/15/#findComment-27544 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderator Baozi 1,662 Posted January 8, 2014 Moderator Share Posted January 8, 2014 5 points does like nothing, you might want to do 10 or something at the very least lol. Link to comment https://vhlforum.com/topic/3549-vhlm-waiver-discussion/page/15/#findComment-27546 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Grumpy Bear 347 Posted January 8, 2014 Share Posted January 8, 2014 Well calling it stupid shit is kind of offensive, as its a long discussion about a lot to things. However leaving the discussion open to find the right pitch to give to the blue team isn't a bad thing. Otherwise, you are just telling us to keep quiet about discussion around the league (something it lacks). This forum lacks discussion? I find that statement offensive, also it's a straight lie. Link to comment https://vhlforum.com/topic/3549-vhlm-waiver-discussion/page/15/#findComment-27547 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fire Tortorella 2,653 Posted January 8, 2014 Share Posted January 8, 2014 5 points does like nothing, you might want to do 10 or something at the very least lol. I don't think it's nothing. It is enough that it allows a new member to start to build their player how they want to right away and gives them some instant satisfaction instead of waiting for graders who take a year and a half to grade. Link to comment https://vhlforum.com/topic/3549-vhlm-waiver-discussion/page/15/#findComment-27548 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted January 8, 2014 Share Posted January 8, 2014 This forum lacks discussion? I find that statement offensive, also it's a straight lie. As much as it used too yeah. It's no lie. We've had to adjust since coming over from the old board. It's not really a secret Link to comment https://vhlforum.com/topic/3549-vhlm-waiver-discussion/page/15/#findComment-27549 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corco 1,266 Posted January 8, 2014 Share Posted January 8, 2014 5 points does like nothing, you might want to do 10 or something at the very least lol. 5 or bust. First year VHLM players don't get the contracts that VHL players have, so that's a bit of an equalizer. Link to comment https://vhlforum.com/topic/3549-vhlm-waiver-discussion/page/15/#findComment-27551 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Squinty 116 Posted January 8, 2014 Share Posted January 8, 2014 (edited) CAN WE JUST CLARIFY THAT IT IS IN FACT, MOOT POINT, AND NOT MUTE POINT Edited January 8, 2014 by Squinty Link to comment https://vhlforum.com/topic/3549-vhlm-waiver-discussion/page/15/#findComment-27552 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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