GMs Having 2nd Players is Really Dumb

[eaglesfan036 4,603]

So leading up to this draft, it's quite clear that @Banackock and @Devise would have no interest in their 2nd player playing for Calgary. I sent out my pre-draft emails to all prospects a few days ago, and Banacock pretty belligerently refused to answer the questionnaire while Devise just declined to bother responding, though he had the time to send me a PM for a trade offer just a few hours later. There is going to be a major lack of motivation for GMs with 2nd players on other teams. Also, while @Higgins is a great guy and I love having him on my team, having other GMs 2nd players on your team can make it weird when discussing offseason plans, especially if your teams are fighting for the same resources.

 

So now many GMs are going to be smart, and try to find any way possible to get their 2nd player on their team. This guarantees them 2 players they know won't go anywhere and they can just be super tpe whores with. GMs who don't manage to produce two tpe whores for their teams are going to be at a major disadvantage. 

Edited April 1, 2017 by eaglesfan036

[Devise 4,475]

My lack of interest in playing in Calgary has nothing to do with the fact that I GM another team. But I was still intending to respond to your PM for what that is worth.

[Frank 5,212]

Draft them anyway, make them suffer. 

[Kesler 1,514]

Also competing against yourself is also an issue imo.

[Banackock 8,056]

Why would I answer the questionnaire when my player won't be available when it's your turn to pick? Admittedly, Calgary is one of the bottoms teams I'd want to play for. 

 

I've openly expressed playing for another team if they happen to choose me. I also wouldn't stop updating my player and would continue at a normal pace. 

[Banackock 8,056]

1 minute ago, Pablo said:

Also competing against yourself is also an issue imo.

That's the stupidest thing ever. When I make a player, I make him to be as good as he can be. It's not going to matter what team he's on. If NYA drafts me this draft, I'll update the same and they'll expect the same from me as if I were on SEA. Reminder, I can leave these teams for SEA during Free Agency. Only can I acquire my 2nd player through trade or the draft.

 

So if another team took myself, would I lessen my updating or determination to be good? Maybe you might because you're suggesting it but I would carry on at the pace life allows me to.

[gregreg 930]

I've tried trading my 2nd player but no one wants him

 

 

[eaglesfan036 4,603]

@Devise @Banackock so you are claiming that your lack of interest has nothing to do with the fact that your 2nd player would be helping a division rival? I'm not even saying this as an indictment of you guys, I would probably feel much less motivated if i had a 2nd player on seattle or new york knowing that I am directly competing against my team

[Jericho 917]

1 minute ago, eaglesfan036 said:

@Devise @Banackock so you are claiming that your lack of interest has nothing to do with the fact that your 2nd player would be helping a division rival? I'm not even saying this as an indictment of you guys, I would probably feel much less motivated if i had a 2nd player on seattle or new york knowing that I am directly competing against my team

 

I feel like it has to do with wasting half a career on a team that isn't getting out of a rebuild any time soon.

I'm not a GM but I wouldn't want to go to CAL either tbh

[Banackock 8,056]

1 minute ago, eaglesfan036 said:

@Devise @Banackock so you are claiming that your lack of interest has nothing to do with the fact that your 2nd player would be helping a division rival? I'm not even saying this as an indictment of you guys, I would probably feel much less motivated if i had a 2nd player on seattle or new york knowing that I am directly competing against my team

Nope - nothing to do with it. I was fine with trading Wolf where ever (even though I'm rebuilding).

 

When I create a player, it's not because I have no life and enjoy spending time with Kendrick. I create players to try and kick ass. to break records, make the hall of fame, win cups, score goals, play good defensively etc.  I want to be the best - or strive to be anyway. Campbell had a great career. Wolf was a great play maker and role player for Seattle.

 

Would it be bitter sweet? Sure it would be. If I was on HSK and Seattle met them in the finals, it would be a weird feeling losing the cup as a GM but winning as a player. Of course, my main goal would be to win for Seattle. BUT, at the end of the day - I got a cup and hopefully had one hell of a year with my other player. Call it different. I'm here to make good players and make whatever team I'm on better. 

[DollarAndADream 3,356]

10 minutes ago, Banackock said:

That's the stupidest thing ever. When I make a player, I make him to be as good as he can be. It's not going to matter what team he's on. If NYA drafts me this draft, I'll update the same and they'll expect the same from me as if I were on SEA. Reminder, I can leave these teams for SEA during Free Agency. Only can I acquire my 2nd player through trade or the draft.

 

So if another team took myself, would I lessen my updating or determination to be good? Maybe you might because you're suggesting it but I would carry on at the pace life allows me to.

I'm not sure that's what he's suggesting.

 

I think it's more along the lines of how it would kind of suck if your non-GM player was always killing your team as an opponent.

Like, say I take King and not Ironside this draft.....I don't know how I'd feel if Ironside eliminated Toronto from the playoffs.

 

It would be weird, because obviously I'm pro Ironside, but as a GM it's probably more important for that team you're GMing to be successful.

Like, obviously updating a 2nd player less on an opposing team would be stupid, but it would also suck losing a lot if your player beats your team all the time.

This is probably even more shitty if your player is a goalie, like myself. At least if it's a player you can attribute it a lot to the team play and stuff. With a goalie though, man that would suck if I was in a playoff series against Ironside and he played lights out against me. I'd still love it from the Ironside part of things, but as a GM, it's like...well shit my own player is causing me GM failures.

[Jericho 917]

2 minutes ago, DollarAndADream said:

I'm not sure that's what he's suggesting.

 

I think it's more along the lines of how it would kind of suck if your non-GM player was always killing your team as an opponent.

Like, say I take King and not Ironside this draft.....I don't know how I'd feel if Ironside eliminated Toronto from the playoffs.

 

It would be weird, because obviously I'm pro Ironside, but as a GM it's probably more important for that team you're GMing to be successful.

Like, obviously updating a 2nd player less on an opposing team would be stupid, but it would also suck losing a lot if your player beats your team all the time.

This is probably even more shitty if your player is a goalie, like myself. At least if it's a player you can attribute it a lot to the team play and stuff. With a goalie though, man that would suck if I was in a playoff series against Ironside and he played lights out against me. I'd still love it from the Ironside part of things, but as a GM, it's like...well shit my own player is causing me GM failures.

 

Even if you aren't a GM, I imagine STZ felt weird in the finals for example.

[Banackock 8,056]

1 minute ago, DollarAndADream said:

I'm not sure that's what he's suggesting.

 

I think it's more along the lines of how it would kind of suck if your non-GM player was always killing your team as an opponent.

Like, say I take King and not Ironside this draft.....I don't know how I'd feel if Ironside eliminated Toronto from the playoffs.

 

It would be weird, because obviously I'm pro Ironside, but as a GM it's probably more important for that team you're GMing to be successful.

Like, obviously updating a 2nd player less on an opposing team would be stupid, but it would also suck losing a lot if your player beats your team all the time.

This is probably even more shitty if your player is a goalie, like myself. At least if it's a player you can attribute it a lot to the team play and stuff. With a goalie though, man that would suck if I was in a playoff series against Ironside and he played lights out against me. I'd still love it from the Ironside part of things, but as a GM, it's like...well shit my own player is causing me GM failures.

I answered it more or less responding to Eagles.

 

It would be bitter sweet but at the end of the day, I create a player to be good, great and try and be the best. Would it suck losing the cup as a GM? Yes. Would it be bitter sweet because maybe my player played a role in it? Sure. But really, I just take it as a loss to another team as a GM, not a loss to "myself". I wouldn't update less, I wouldn't slow down. 

 

No point creating a second player if you aren't gonna send it.

 

 

 

[Advantage 2,891]

12 minutes ago, eaglesfan036 said:

@Devise @Banackock so you are claiming that your lack of interest has nothing to do with the fact that your 2nd player would be helping a division rival? I'm not even saying this as an indictment of you guys, I would probably feel much less motivated if i had a 2nd player on seattle or new york knowing that I am directly competing against my team

Devise wants to play for a team he has never played for and he has played for Calgary..so I imagine that is part of the reason.

[Devise 4,475]

4 minutes ago, Jericho said:

 

Even if you aren't a GM, I imagine STZ felt weird in the finals for example.

 

Did he? I don't know I'd think a guaranteed Cup going into the finals probably gives you a sense of confidence. Regardless of the narrative STHS weaves your still going to get something out of that. 

 

Also @eaglesfan036 I answered your questions in the PM about draft interest, but for the record again I'll say my only issue with playing with Calgary long term is the same with a lot of franchises. I do not want Verner to spend his career on a team I've played for already. That includes NY btw. If I have the chance to draft my own player and decide to I'm fully committed to trading when it makes sense, and seeing him go elsewhere. I'd much rather player in Europe in general, because just like STZ did, why not hedge you bets in each conference?

 

Even still I've never played for Toronto and I have publicly stated that I think they have a great GM and a great future, and are a team I haven't laced em up with. If Verner went there division rival or not I probably stay most of the career. It situational I guess is what I'm saying, I don't think it being a GM player has anything to do with it. Different members are always going to approach their second player in various different ways. 

[DollarAndADream 3,356]

1 minute ago, Banackock said:

I answered it more or less responding to Eagles.

 

It would be bitter sweet but at the end of the day, I create a player to be good, great and try and be the best. Would it suck losing the cup as a GM? Yes. Would it be bitter sweet because maybe my player played a role in it? Sure. But really, I just take it as a loss to another team as a GM, not a loss to "myself". I wouldn't update less, I wouldn't slow down. 

 

No point creating a second player if you aren't gonna send it.

 

 

 

Yeah, I completely get what you're saying.

 

I don't think any GM should be trying to fuck around and land both of their players on the same team with a negative approach. I mean, you shouldn't be refusing to play for teams for those reasons.

 

At the end of the day, this is basically a hockey RPG, so we should just be creating players and trying to make them the greatest we can. That's the goal. Nobody should be intentionally going out of their way to make their 2nd player lesser because it's on an opposing team, or refusing to play for another team. Just make a player and try to make him however great you can.

 

For me, I kind of just got presented this unique situation with Ironside and Boeser. The timing was perfect with Parechkin's retirement coming more or less after I became GM. If I didn't have 1st overall or close to it and Ironside got taken by another team, I'd be completely fine with that. I'll still be updating him even though he's player #2.

[Smarch 3,157]

I had nothing but positive responses with the two you stated 

[Jericho 917]

Just now, Devise said:

 

Did he? I don't know I'd think a guaranteed Cup going into the finals probably gives you a sense of confidence. Regardless of the narrative STHS weaves your still going to get something out of that. 

 

I'm making an assumption admittedly on his behalf.

 

It's not a bad thing, but I'm sure it's a weird feeling opening a game thread and knowing you have both won and lost that game. Every time Unassisted scored on DeGrath would be weird. That's how I'd feel anyway. I'm not saying I wouldn't do it either, just that it's be strange.

[Kendrick 4,741]

29 minutes ago, Banackock said:

Why would I answer the questionnaire when my player won't be available when it's your turn to pick? Admittedly, Calgary is one of the bottoms teams I'd want to play for. 

 

I've openly expressed playing for another team if they happen to choose me. I also wouldn't stop updating my player and would continue at a normal pace. 

I mean I probably won't be available when he picked, but I respect him enough to answer his questionnaire about his franchise drafting players that want to have respect from him as well. Two-way street.

[Devise 4,475]

1 minute ago, Smarch said:

I had nothing but positive responses with the two you stated 

 

In Europe and haven't played for, so that is a big reason. But I think a big thing some people may be missing about this, and I say it's pretty crucial. Not everyone creates a second player to "do amazing." Or just keep doing what they have been doing. We all have our own reasons for creating a second player, and a lot of them are probably more outside the box things. Maybe it's trying a player build you never thought you would, or a position. Maybe it's test free agency when you never do with your first player. None of that is personal to any GM's though. A second player gives some of us an opportunity to experiment so of course we are going to. 

[DollarAndADream 3,356]

For what it's worth, even if I take Ironside there's no guarantee he'll stay in Toronto for his whole career. All things considered, I've had 2 players in the VHL and have only played on 4 teams. With Boychuk it was Calgary and Quebec City, and with Parechkin it was Toronto and then Seattle for just 1 season. Now Boeser will be in Toronto his whole career, so that's another guy I'll have in blue and white for 8 seasons, granted I'm GM for the whole thing.

 

If I draft him, I'm not against eventually trading Ironside to a team that I haven't played for yet. One day I'd love to play for New York especially. I've always wanted to because of their history since I've been on this website. When I first came here I saw guys like Odin Tordahl, Connor Low, Xin Xie Xiao, etc etc dominate there. I want to play for every team eventually. I'm not opposed to going back to Calgary some day because that's where I started as well.

[Kendrick 4,741]

17 minutes ago, Banackock said:

When I create a player, it's not because I have no life and enjoy spending time with Kendrick.

Second straight day you just want to be an asshole to me, okay I see what's up. You're still a GM right? That looks poorly on you considering two guys left your team last year because of you.

[DollarAndADream 3,356]

2 minutes ago, Kendrick said:

I mean I probably won't be available when he picked, but I respect him enough to answer his questionnaire about his franchise drafting players that want to have respect from him as well. Two-way street.

As an add-on to this, I answered his PM too. Ironside will be gone long before it gets to Calgary's pick, but I took time to answer. He sent the PM knowing that, so why can't I answer the PM knowing that? It's just courtesy.

[Kendrick 4,741]

Just now, DollarAndADream said:

As an add-on to this, I answered his PM too. Ironside will be gone long before it gets to Calgary's pick, but I took time to answer. He sent the PM knowing that, so why can't I answer the PM knowing that? It's just courtesy.

Exactly. if no one has respect for each other what's the point in even broadcasting our league to outside individuals? We have to at least have fun and know that the other guy is a member of the same forum you are contributing to.

[Banackock 8,056]

Just now, Kendrick said:

I mean I probably won't be available when he picked, but I respect him enough to answer his questionnaire about his franchise drafting players that want to have respect from him as well. Two-way street.

Great job. 5 points for Slytherin.

 

(Has nothing to do with me not respecting him. Enjoy your night, Kendrick. Maybe @Frank has time for your passive-aggressive remarks).