Claimed: Franchise Cornerstone; S58 Most Valuable Player ? [1/2]

[jRuutu 2,314]

6 minutes ago, hedgehog337 said:

 

And again, not sure if everybody or even the majority would be on board with it. Like me - If I was an usual member, seeing my guy playing 10 something minutes for 2 or more seasons would hurt my activity.

But you could also see if other teams have more space and bigger role for you? If there is always going to be team or two who is rebuilding, could get bigger role there. Playing on smaller role in a winning team is not that bad, at least for me. Keep chasing the cup while steadily improving = you will be in bigger role soon

[hedgehog337 3,480]

1 minute ago, jRuutu said:

But you could also see if other teams have more space and bigger role for you? If there is always going to be team or two who is rebuilding, could get bigger role there. Playing on smaller role in a winning team is not that bad, at least for me. Keep chasing the cup while steadily improving = you will be in bigger role soon

 

That's exactly what I'm doing in GOMHL right now. I can't say I'm active there.

[Kendrick 4,724]

24 minutes ago, jRuutu said:

Because the image I got from previous discussions is the exact opposite   Seems to be a lot more towards ´yes´ for the 3rd and 4th line system than lets say 6 months ago.

Either your attempt at trolling is just very backwards or you actually aren't understanding here. It's not a 3rd/4th line discussion. That comes naturally with more players and a general unlikeable action of expanding teams. When there are more people on the site, naturally you'd have more positions to fill on each line.

[jRuutu 2,314]

4 minutes ago, Beketov said:

S30 I believe? I don’t fully remember but I believe it was around that landmark. People had honestly been asking for Expansion since like Season 10. 

Looking at some of these older indexes around s30-20 I can see why people think expansion was not the best idea, these roster do not look too deep to me?

 

3 minutes ago, hedgehog337 said:

 

That's exactly what I'm doing in GOMHL right now. I can't say I'm active there.

Hopefully you find the improved role somewhere! Could maybe even spark more actitivity

[hedgehog337 3,480]

No, but for real. Are there more than Ruutu who thinks that three or four lines would be better than two?

[jRuutu 2,314]

5 minutes ago, Kendrick said:

Either your attempt at trolling is just very backwards or you actually aren't understanding here. It's not a 3rd/4th line discussion. That comes naturally with more players and a general unlikeable action of expanding teams. When there are more people on the site, naturally you'd have more positions to fill on each line.

I´m not understanding, I have been here for 15 seasons and it´s still the same, only now recently couple teams got dropped and VHL is moving towards 3rd and 4th lines being a possibility. Without a clear announcement/update/signal from the blue team/head office that 3rd and 4th line is coming - we just need more users = I´m not believing anything. At the moment I´m having hard time believing anything will change in here even if the recruitment brings new users into the league

 

 

[jRuutu 2,314]

2 minutes ago, hedgehog337 said:

No, but for real. Are there more than Ruutu who thinks that three or four lines would be better than two?

Put a poll up and maybe even add 1 TPE as reward for everybody who vote, should get peoples attention.

[Kendrick 4,724]

2 minutes ago, jRuutu said:

I´m not understanding, I have been here for 15 seasons and it´s still the same, only now recently couple teams got dropped and VHL is moving towards 3rd and 4th lines being a possibility. Without a clear announcement/update/signal from the blue team/head office that 3rd and 4th line is coming - we just need more users = I´m not believing anything. At the moment I´m having hard time believing anything will change in here even if the recruitment brings new users into the league

You don't want to understand, that seems to be the disconnect. Here I'll sum it up for you.

 

• In Season 31 (before you came here) the VHL expanded from 8 teams to 10 teams. The need for expansion was thought as a 50/50 situation as we did have an influx of members but it might have been way too early to see that progression take shape.
• In about S41-S42 you came here to a league with 10 teams
• Recently the VHL disbanded two teams to go from 10 to 8 in total.
• The current blue team (different from the blue team in S31) acknowledged it wasn't the smartest move to expand in the first place which is also why you saw us go from 10 to 8 teams.
• With recruiting efforts we can hopefully push the number of active players past 2 lines. But the goal is to get those members first and not go looking for people who are only going to join if it's 4 lines (that is a one trick pony and ends up failing)
• No signal is needed from the blue team haha. You need to understand this, its not an announcement that will change the amount of lines. It's recruiting efforts that will change the amount of lines. Instead of wasting time announcing our goal (which you seem to be the only one arguing for that sort of lingo) we should be out recruiting members from sim leagues and like-minded places.
• Why are you having a hard time? In order to have 3rd or 4th lines, we'd need the members would we not? You realize the cap can change depending on the numbers right? I still don't see how you are so confused by all this.

[hedgehog337 3,480]

I got a lil bit different question. Who would be ready to see his player playing less minutes even if the league has a successful recruitment campaign for having 3 or more lines in almost every VHL team? Would be interested to see an answer here.

[jRuutu 2,314]

2 minutes ago, Kendrick said:

You don't want to understand, that seems to be the disconnect. Here I'll sum it up for you.

 

• In Season 31 (before you came here) the VHL expanded from 8 teams to 10 teams. The need for expansion was thought as a 50/50 situation as we did have an influx of members but it might have been way too early to see that progression take shape.
• In about S41-S42 you came here to a league with 10 teams
• Recently the VHL disbanded two teams to go from 10 to 8 in total.
• The current blue team (different from the blue team in S31) acknowledged it wasn't the smartest move to expand in the first place which is also why you saw us go from 10 to 8 teams.
• With recruiting efforts we can hopefully push the number of active players past 2 lines. But the goal is to get those members first and not go looking for people who are only going to join if it's 4 lines (that is a one trick pony and ends up failing)
• No signal is needed from the blue team haha. You need to understand this, its not an announcement that will change the amount of lines. It's recruiting efforts that will change the amount of lines. Instead of wasting time announcing our goal (which you seem to be the only one arguing for that sort of lingo) we should be out recruiting members from sim leagues and like-minded places.
• Why are you having a hard time? In order to have 3rd or 4th lines, we'd need the members would we not? You realize the cap can change depending on the numbers right? I still don't see how you are so confused by all this.

But by announcing the 3rd/4th line system being a reality in the future, you could motivate people in here to help you in recruiting and also at the same time let the new users know what is going on? Or are the new users going to be excited when the league goes through a massive change in basically more than one area to make the 3rd and 4th lines be possible? If they come in and expect big minutes like many by the sound of it want, will they stay if you take part of that away from them?

 

Could potentially get the ´wrong´ people join in now, the users who like the small line setup with big minutes come in now, but might leave when the change to 3rd and 4th line comes and the users who want to see depth in rosters and 3/4 lines wont even come here before you make the change.

[jRuutu 2,314]

10 minutes ago, hedgehog337 said:

I got a lil bit different question. Who would be ready to see his player playing less minutes even if the league has a successful recruitment campaign for having 3 or more lines in almost every VHL team? Would be interested to see an answer here.

I would be more than ready if we get 3 and 4 lines. 20 minutes is more than fine and I play defense at the ´peak´ of my career.

[Kendrick 4,724]

2 minutes ago, jRuutu said:

But by announcing the 3rd/4th line system being a reality in the future, you could motivate people in here to help you in recruiting and also at the same time let the new users know what is going on? Or are the new users going to be excited when the league goes through a massive change in basically more than one area to make the 3rd and 4th lines be possible? If they come in and expect big minutes like many by the sound of it want, will they stay if you take part of that away from them?

 

Could potentially get the ´wrong´ people join in now, the users who like the small line setup with big minutes come in now, but might leave when the change to 3rd and 4th line comes and the users who want to see depth in rosters and 3/4 lines wont even come here before you make the change.

An announcement of the recruiting events is enough to motivate people because it is attached to TPE in two ways, no need to link it to the obvious...which is more people means more lines. Why are you so tied up on the lingo? haha its getting ridiculous. What big changes would happen to make room for the 3rd/4th scenario though? It would just be expansion of rosters which happens naturally and a cap increase. No one goes into a sim league expecting big minutes and if they do thats not a disconnect with sim leagues, thats a disconnect with sports teams as a whole haha;

 

Wait, the people who join who like the 2 line thing are the wrong people now? Okay well there is no point in me recruiting.

 

What you are doing is trying to pass your beliefs of your own opinion off as actual ideas. That's scary because you clearly are in the minority right now given you're the only one who seems to have spoken up about it. I think it's best to take a break from the backwards argument as it's not really building a case for yourself. You bring up some really scary ways of trying to pass your opinion off as facts. You are digging a hole. It was a nice discussion for the most part.

[jRuutu 2,314]

10 minutes ago, Kendrick said:

An announcement of the recruiting events is enough to motivate people because it is attached to TPE in two ways, no need to link it to the obvious...which is more people means more lines. Why are you so tied up on the lingo? haha its getting ridiculous. What big changes would happen to make room for the 3rd/4th scenario though? It would just be expansion of rosters which happens naturally and a cap increase. No one goes into a sim league expecting big minutes and if they do thats not a disconnect with sim leagues, thats a disconnect with sports teams as a whole haha;

 

Wait, the people who join who like the 2 line thing are the wrong people now? Okay well there is no point in me recruiting.

 

What you are doing is trying to pass your beliefs of your own opinion off as actual ideas. That's scary because you clearly are in the minority right now given you're the only one who seems to have spoken up about it. I think it's best to take a break from the backwards argument as it's not really building a case for yourself. You bring up some really scary ways of trying to pass your opinion off as facts. You are digging a hole. It was a nice discussion for the most part.

Because even if new people join in, nothing might change, where does the line go? At 20 new users, 30, 40? When is the announcement coming that now we have 3rd and 4th lines? Only thing you are doing right now is building for the current system where 2 lines is the norm and bring people into that system.

 

If you want to bring new users in and if you actually manage to do that, those users who want 2 lines only are ´wrong´ users, because eventually you have so many users here that 3rd and 4th lines in every team in VHL is a reality. Why waste your time in bringing users who want 2 line league when in the end you will try to go for the 3rd/4th line system? Why not go straight to the 3rd and 4th line users and try to get them in here?

Edited February 1, 2018 by jRuutu

[hedgehog337 3,480]

8 minutes ago, jRuutu said:

If you want to bring new users in and if you actually manage to do that, those users who want 2 lines only are ´wrong´ users, because eventually you have so many users here that 3rd and 4th lines in every team in VHL is a reality. Why waste your time in bringing users who want 2 line league when in the end you will try to go for the 3rd/4th line system? Why not go straight to the 3rd and 4th line users and try to get them in here?

 

No no no, jfc... You're just saying to the two lines fans to GTFO from this league, cause they're ''wrong''. That's a stupid thing to do.

 

11 minutes ago, jRuutu said:

Because even if new people join in, nothing might change, where does the line go? At 20 new users, 30, 40? When is the announcement coming that now we have 3rd and 4th lines? Only thing you are doing right now is building for the current system where 2 lines is the norm and bring people into that system.

 

Why we need an announcement? Would these new members even realize immediately that this league runs with the two line system? Come on...and this still would be nice to them as they would have a good chance to fill the holes. I'm having hard time to believe that they would leave the league basically because we have two lines, not 3/4. People are leaving the league because of not having enough activity, not the lines shit.

[jRuutu 2,314]

Just now, hedgehog337 said:

 

No no no, jfc... You're just saying to the two lines fans to GTFO from this league, cause they're ''wrong''. That's a stupid thing to do.

 

 

Why we need an announcement? Would these new members even realize immediately that this league runs with the two line system? Come on...and this still would be nice to them as they would have a good chance to fill the holes. I'm having hard time to believe that they would leave the league basically because we have two lines, not 3/4. People are leaving the league because of not having enough activity, not the lines shit.

But if the league wants to bring new users in and actually manages to do it, this league wont be a 2 line league anymore? Are the users who want to see 2 lines only going to stay here or are we seeing the same thing as now with the users who want 3rd/4th lines? They just go find a league that offers them that and wont stay in VHL?

 

Not enough activity and only 2 lines in each team go hand in hand. I´m still saying the recruitment process would go a lot better if the system here would be every team having 3rd and 4th lines, even if it means starting from 4 or 6 teams. Should be made absolutely clear right from the start what this league is all about, how many lines in each team is a big thing, a lot bigger than many here seem to think.

[hedgehog337 3,480]

1 minute ago, jRuutu said:

But if the league wants to bring new users in and actually manages to do it, this league wont be a 2 line league anymore?

 

I guess it won't. Fine.

 

1 minute ago, jRuutu said:

Are the users who want to see 2 lines only going to stay here or are we seeing the same thing as now with the users who want 3rd/4th lines? They just go find a league that offers them that and wont stay in VHL?

 

That's would be up to them.

 

2 minutes ago, jRuutu said:

Not enough activity and only 2 lines in each team go hand in hand. I´m still saying the recruitment process would go a lot better if the system here would be every team having 3rd and 4th lines, even if it means starting from 4 or 6 teams. Should be made absolutely clear right from the start what this league is all about, how many lines in each team is a big thing, a lot bigger than many here seem to think.

 

The lines thing isn't the most important one. People are leaving because not having enough activity, maybe not having enough PT or not having a proper mentoring system. And then maybe this two lines, three lines or something lines shit.

[jRuutu 2,314]

3 minutes ago, hedgehog337 said:

 

I guess it won't. Fine.

 

 

That's would be up to them.

 

 

The lines thing isn't the most important one. People are leaving because not having enough activity, maybe not having enough PT or not having a proper mentoring system. And then maybe this two lines, three lines or something lines shit.

It would be up to them for sure, but If they come in here expecting to play massive amount every game and be in the top-6 from start to end, but all of a sudden it´s taken away or part of it is taken away,  some users might not be too pleased to see the league that they joined is not the same anymore.

 

Both are big things in my mind, more different types of PTs go a long way, but also the real action in the sim plays a part. That is what most want to see in the end, their own player in the game and the opportunity to go towards great things. 2 lines at best is not for everybody. Mentoring part is also very big, especially the part where they let new users know what this league is all about and what it really means when you make it into VHL, what the roster/line structure is like etc

 

Gotta go,, sleep again

 

 

[hedgehog337 3,480]

3 minutes ago, jRuutu said:

It would be up to them for sure, but If they come in here expecting to play massive amount every game and be in the top-6 from start to end, but all of a sudden it´s taken away or part of it is taken away,  some users might not be too pleased to see the league that they joined is not the same anymore.

 

Some. But not everybody.

 

3 minutes ago, jRuutu said:

Both are big things in my mind, more different types of PTs go a long way, but also the real action in the sim plays a part. That is what most want to see in the end, their own player in the game and the opportunity to go towards great things. 2 lines at best is not for everybody. Mentoring part is also very big, especially the part where they let new users know what this league is all about and what it really means when you make it into VHL, what the roster/line structure is like etc

 

I don't believe that the line structure would be the most important thing for a new member. I believe he would be more interested to know how to earn TPE and which team is more active and then worrying about lines if he even does give a shit about it.

Edited February 1, 2018 by hedgehog337

[TheLastOlympian07 2,388]

ive never seen someone argue so much for so little and being the only one who holds these same opinions like ruutu about these 3/4 lines and welfare. its like a vicious circle. but hey hes undefeated in arguments so hes got that going for him

[boubabi 4,725]

Dont be an ass shawn. He might be stuborn but thinking outside the box is often useful/necessary for moving forward. I think it was a fun argument

Edited February 2, 2018 by boubabi

[eaglesfan036 4,585]

Boubabi Kayne 2020

[TheLastOlympian07 2,388]

2 hours ago, boubabi said:

Dont be an ass shawn. He might be stuborn but thinking outside the box is often useful/necessary for moving forward. I think it was a fun argument

ban me pls

[boubabi 4,725]

7 minutes ago, TheLastOlympian07 said:

ban me pls

brb

[jRuutu 2,314]

11 hours ago, hedgehog337 said:

 

Some. But not everybody.

 

 

I don't believe that the line structure would be the most important thing for a new member. I believe he would be more interested to know how to earn TPE and which team is more active and then worrying about lines if he even does give a shit about it.

In my opinion line structure is a big problem, because that plays a part on what kind of player you want to be. Some people actually want to be more of a role players and not the superstars, sounds crazy, but it´s true.  There is no place for role playes here, it´s star or star.

 

The cold fact is that if you look at the roster in VHL index right now, they do not exactly scream active league. The new users see that, is anyone letting them know this place is really like this? If the 500 words for PT or graphical work is too much for them as is, but then the actual sim/league does not seem too active, they will just stop coming here. Adding more PT options could help in keeping more people around, but if they want 3rd/4th lines and deeper rosters, VHL is not the place for them. Nobody knows how many users are like that, but I´m willing to bet the number of hockey/sim league fans around the world who want 3rd/4th lines is a lot higher than the number on who want a 2 line league.

 

 

[jRuutu 2,314]

10 hours ago, TheLastOlympian07 said:

ive never seen someone argue so much for so little and being the only one who holds these same opinions like ruutu about these 3/4 lines and welfare. its like a vicious circle. but hey hes undefeated in arguments so hes got that going for him

Thank you. I would like to say being the only one means something, but when you look how many active users VHL has, value of it goes down