Claimed: For the 12 TPE Cap Era, Does Job Pay Need To Be Re-Assessed?

[Tagger 2,722]

While the league has been through some changes as of late that have been mostly positive, those changes may have had an adverse effect on some of the current systems that have yet to be addressed. One of those issues in my opinion is the issue of job pay, more specifically for the updaters. Despite the fact that the job can sometimes take over an hour to do depending how many updates there are and how many problems arise from poorly formatted/calculated updates, back when we had the 9 TPE cap updaters would only get 2 TPE per week. However, this worked in that system because getting to 9 TPE without a job required quite a bit of effort and/or sacrificing money from your players account in the player store, therefore while the TPE:Time Spent ratio didn't exactly correlate, the fact that you had a position that others didn't that allowed you to hit the 9 TPE mark easier made it a worthwhile job.

 

For the 12 TPE era, the updater pay has been upped by 1 TPE to 3 TPE per week, which would maybe work depending on the other alterations the league made. However, the alterations that they did make made taking up the updater position a questionable use of a person's time. See while the TPE cap was upped by 3, the more opportunities to earn TPE and a higher welfare/pension output increased the possible TPE that a player could earn by 4-6 TPE, broken down as follows:

 

New Point Task - Press Conference (2 extra TPE available)

Trivia - Increased TPE output for two correct answers (1 extra TPE available)

VHL.com/XM Radio - Increased TPE by one (1 extra TPE available)

Welfare/Pension Changes - Increased TPE for Welfare by 2, Increased TPE for Pension by 1)

 

Perhaps the best example of how these changes have affected things is evidenced by @Victor's article here, which points out that a player who has been here for a while can reach the 12 TPE cap without doing a PT, without holding a job and without having to make a player store purchase to boost their TPE. In addition, those point earning activities that make up the remaining 7 TPE are very time-efficient (5-10 minutes for XM Radio, 5 minutes for Trivia, 5-10 minutes to ask/answer Press Conference Questions) so not only has an updater lost the advantage of being able to hit the TPE cap without having to make other sacrifices elsewhere, they'd be getting to the TPE cap having spent way more time on the activities than someone who went the route Victor suggested,. You look at that and there's really no wonder it took 9 days to find a new updater, and given that they're looking for another, that wait may be even longer.

 

So how do you re-incentivise people to take up a role like updater when, as it stands, anyone who takes on the role and has the time to do it is only making more work for themselves? There are two options; you either make minor nerfs to the amount of TPE someone without a job can possibly earn, or you up the pay. The first option is the worst of the two; with the increased output of welfare and pension, we've openly embraced ourselves as a league that can allow players to make successful players without too much effort. So you up the pay. To how much? 6 TPE. Why not? With the days of those who update having an earning capability advantage over other members at an end, If they're willing to give up an hour a week of their time to help the league, which is akin to how long a point task can potentially take depending on the effort put into it,  why not give them the same amount of TPE for it? 

[Spade18 1,305]

I definitely think updaters should receive more TPE based on their job.  Especially because, as we've recently seen, updating is decent factor in retention.

 

It will both Increase the scrutiny on the upgraders because they will be earning more, thus making sure they do a good job, and, if necessary, are replaced, and make active people more willing to take the updater job as they will be rewarded for their time.

[Victor 10,918]

You're not wrong. We pay simmers a weekly PT and have done for years, not much harder than updating. We pay recruitment crew some obscene amount and well the less said the better there.

 

Grading's dead so updating is the last pillar of the VHL which doesn't get the recognition it deserves.

[Beaviss 4,957]

2 minutes ago, Victor said:

You're not wrong. We pay simmers a weekly PT and have done for years, not much harder than updating. We pay recruitment crew some obscene amount and well the less said the better there.

 

Grading's dead so updating is the last pillar of the VHL which doesn't get the recognition it deserves.

 

I agree with the recruitment pay is high given that most of the crew doesn’t do all that much (that I know of). I know for myself I put in an hour or so a day if not more trying to grab new members. My YouTube campaign has been quite successful but other than that my efforts haven’t been all fails. 

 

If recruitment crew makes cap updaters should make at least 6 TPE

[diamond_ace 3,111]

Updating should definitely be paid more - I'd be inclined to take every other job available before I'd even touch updating, so we need to make it worth someone's while.

However, I wouldn't exactly say trivia is quick, unless you're Victor.

[Gooningitup 1,290]

21 minutes ago, Beaviss said:

 

I agree with the recruitment pay is high given that most of the crew doesn’t do all that much (that I know of). I know for myself I put in an hour or so a day if not more trying to grab new members. My YouTube campaign has been quite successful but other than that my efforts haven’t been all fails. 

 

If recruitment crew makes cap updaters should make at least 6 TPE

 

Im always getting hit with players asking why is my player updated on the forum but not the sim. When players dont see results right away they seem to be get scared away.

 

I mean the youtube campaigns have been good for raising member count but retention of these members has been awful. A lot of new blood dont seem to know what to do, and dont see results right away and get discouraged. 

 

I have 2 actives from the campaign, which is about what we get every year.

Most other VHLM teams at about 1 or 2 aswell.

 

I feel an overhaul of how the site is laid out, or atleast a better how to maybe a video? Could help, even for example i could step up in this case and write an article that can be pinned to media area and the create a player area. About what to talk about for media articles. 

Edited May 15, 2018 by Gooningitup

[Tagger 2,722]

Just now, diamond_ace said:

However, I wouldn't exactly say trivia is quick, unless you're Victor.

Eh, it depends on a couple of things. I mean last week's trivia was literally just confined to records, I could've found all four of them in less than 5 minutes. It can be longer for the new members but I've typically found there's one guy per LR usually willing to help find the answer, it shouldn't take more than 10 mins even for them. 

[diamond_ace 3,111]

2 minutes ago, Tagger said:

Eh, it depends on a couple of things. I mean last week's trivia was literally just confined to records, I could've found all four of them in less than 5 minutes. It can be longer for the new members but I've typically found there's one guy per LR usually willing to help find the answer, it shouldn't take more than 10 mins even for them. 

Last season I had some new guys wanting to do trivia and asked me about a few questions (and I don't do trivia specifically because I don't want to have to find them). It took no time at all for one of them, but the other one took longer to find than it takes me to write an article (granted, that might be a flawed comparison because articles don't take me as long as the average person). This was for a trivia that I didn't even do. To an extent, I think the historians among us assume trivia is easy because it's easy for them. It is, almost by design, an extension of carryover - it's basically free TPE for older members who are aware of all possible sections of the forum (if, of course, you've bothered to learn it, like I haven't). In comparison, the new guys either need to spend 5x the time or ask an older member.

[Da Trifecta 1,896]

If anything @Velevra needs a pay raise for his inputting of the attributes into the sim.

[Will 4,660]

3 minutes ago, Lucky 2 Times said:

If anything @Velevra needs a pay raise for his inputting of the attributes into the sim.

 

True that, Velv is highly underrated and has been very consistent for a very long time. 99.99% of the time updates are late it’s a problem on the forum side, not Velv’s side.  

[Will 4,660]

Also, I think both forum and sim updating should be a 7 TPE job like Mag was. 6 TPE for the point task replacement and an extra for the time constraint.

[Kendrick 4,741]

Recruitment should make cap, we could go back to the Victor era were recruitment was cut down and it suffered.

[Gooningitup 1,290]

I dont really put our problems on recruitment @Kendrick and @Beaviss have done good jobs. Our biggest issue is retention. Perhaps what might be a good idea is asking all these new fresh faces that rushing to sign up. What kind of issues they are facing, and then trying to tackle them.

 

I feel as older members used to this league we dont really see the big picture always becasue this is all we have known for X amount of years.

[Beaviss 4,957]

12 minutes ago, Gooningitup said:

I dont really put our problems on recruitment @Kendrick and @Beaviss have done good jobs. Our biggest issue is retention. Perhaps what might be a good idea is asking all these new fresh faces that rushing to sign up. What kind of issues they are facing, and then trying to tackle them.

 

I feel as older members used to this league we dont really see the big picture always becasue this is all we have known for X amount of years.

 

I always tell the oldies what I didn’t like but they usually brush it off lol

[Gooningitup 1,290]

7 minutes ago, Beaviss said:

 

I always tell the oldies what I didn’t like but they usually brush it off lol

 

I know ive been the same since i joined but if we want change they gotta accept it one of these damn days 

[Bushito 1,945]

1 hour ago, Will said:

Also, I think both forum and sim updating should be a 7 TPE job like Mag was. 6 TPE for the point task replacement and an extra for the time constraint.

Taking the 7 isn't a big deal as long as the hard cap of 12 isn't being pushed to 13 for those people. If it is I'll bring up the fact I've run the VHFL for 4-5 seasons now with zero pay. Brought it up half a dozen times as well with a response of nothing besides we'll look into it. It'd not that big of a deal I guess since I make my 12 a week but you know....

[Velevra 312]

1 hour ago, Lucky 2 Times said:

If anything @Velevra needs a pay raise for his inputting of the attributes into the sim.

Thanks for the kind words and appreciation  I know I'm not perfect and make mistakes but I know it's the most important part of the site and I try my best to be as quick as possible after forum updates get done!

[Will 4,660]

9 minutes ago, Bushito said:

Taking the 7 isn't a big deal as long as the hard cap of 12 isn't being pushed to 13 for those people. If it is I'll bring up the fact I've run the VHFL for 4-5 seasons now with zero pay. Brought it up half a dozen times as well with a response of nothing besides we'll look into it. It'd not that big of a deal I guess since I make my 12 a week but you know....

 

No the cap has never been increased for those types of jobs. itd be 7 capped

 

I thought I remember @Beketov telling you he'd be fine paying you for VHFL at some point.

[Kendrick 4,741]

54 minutes ago, Beaviss said:

 

I always tell the oldies what I didn’t like but they usually brush it off lol

Well some of the ideas have been more GM League suggestions, which don't work here so there is that.

[Bushito 1,945]

6 minutes ago, Will said:

 

No the cap has never been increased for those types of jobs. itd be 7 capped

 

I thought I remember @Beketov telling you he'd be fine paying you for VHFL at some point.

Nothing has been said to me about it. I'm happy making sure it's alive because its one of my favorite things in the league but it'd be nice.

[Da Trifecta 1,896]

4 hours ago, Bushito said:

Nothing has been said to me about it. I'm happy making sure it's alive because its one of my favorite things in the league but it'd be nice.

 

Except the format is garbage tbh. Picking players>draft.

[Victor 10,918]

8 hours ago, Kendrick said:

Recruitment should make cap, we could go back to the Victor era were recruitment was cut down and it suffered.

Rattled 

 

What do you even do you bitter old fossil.

[Beketov 9,005]

8 hours ago, Bushito said:

Nothing has been said to me about it. I'm happy making sure it's alive because its one of my favorite things in the league but it'd be nice.

I definitely remember meaning to bring it up with you, maybe I didn’t remember to actually do so. If you want like 2 TPE a week while it runs go for it.

[Kendrick 4,741]

9 hours ago, Victor said:

Rattled 

 

What do you even do you bitter old fossil.

No just pointing out it was a terrible era for Recruitment.

[Bushito 1,945]

9 hours ago, Beketov said:

I definitely remember meaning to bring it up with you, maybe I didn’t remember to actually do so. If you want like 2 TPE a week while it runs go for it.

Really that’s the same thing as nothing unless I stop doing other jobs. I’m over the 12 TPE as it is