The Great League File Debate [Formerly S65 VHLM Index]

[SlashACM 38]

1 minute ago, Beketov said:

It's not a matter of saving over the file I'm concerned about. I have a copy of that, Dropbox has a copy of that, and the other simmers have a Copy of that. It's overwriting and changing our actually output files on the server. Also, even if we could make the file read only it would then become useless since GM's wouldn't be able to change any of their lines in the file.

 

But there's no way to lock the file to only unlicensed versions. Licensing is easy.

 

If you read my post you'd understand my concern isn't about the file itself, it's about what it can be done with it after the fact. They may be mostly unfounded but I'd rather reduce our potential risks rather than create them.

Hold on, youre worried about people hacking the server through the league file? All blade is asking for is the .sth league file that you have saved on your computer, the one you Sim games with. I'm assuming you use some kind of file hosting service to upload results, as Simon T doesn't do this automatically. You have to output them first. With just the .sth file and no access to your file hosting there is no risk of hacks

[Beketov 9,041]

1 minute ago, SlashACM said:

Hold on, youre worried about people hacking the server through the league file? All blade is asking for is the .sth league file that you have saved on your computer, the one you Sim games with. I'm assuming you use some kind of file hosting service to upload results, as Simon T doesn't do this automatically. You have to output them first. With just the .sth file and no access to your file hosting there is no risk of hacks

You are clearly misunderstanding.

 

No, I'm not concerned we could be hacked through the league file, that is definitely impossible. The ability for our server to be messed with is completely separate. However without any access to our league files the worst that could be done is delete things which we have backups of, at least the really old stuff. With our league file every output we do could be messed with and then put into our backups completely changing our ability to have correct sims. I'm not calling it likely, I'm calling it possible. For the sake of having 1 GM with an advantage over the others I don't think that's remotely worth the risk, no matter how small it is. I work with sensitive material every day, I'm very conscious of not leaking anything or messing with backup procedure. I don't see a reason this should be any different. There's no benefit aside from unreliable tests and as unlikely as the negative is it's still possible.

[SlashACM 38]

1 minute ago, Beketov said:

You are clearly misunderstanding.

 

No, I'm not concerned we could be hacked through the league file, that is definitely impossible. The ability for our server to be messed with is completely separate. However without any access to our league files the worst that could be done is delete things which we have backups of, at least the really old stuff. With our league file every output we do could be messed with and then put into our backups completely changing our ability to have correct sims. I'm not calling it likely, I'm calling it possible. For the sake of having 1 GM with an advantage over the others I don't think that's remotely worth the risk, no matter how small it is. I work with sensitive material every day, I'm very conscious of not leaking anything or messing with backup procedure. I don't see a reason this should be any different. There's no benefit aside from unreliable tests and as unlikely as the negative is it's still possible.

I am definitely misunderstanding. I can send you my .sth file for wjc in shl with no repercussions for you to poke around in. No risk. All reward. It's just a copy of the current sim at the time. Obviously lines, strats and player attributes will change afterwards making it outdated but that is just how it goes, we know that risk.

[eaglesfan036 4,603]

I really don't think there's much more to be said here

[SlashACM 38]

Yeah I'll make my own damn sim file with blackjack and hookers

[Beketov 9,041]

2 minutes ago, SlashACM said:

I am definitely misunderstanding. I can send you my .sth file for wjc in shl with no repercussions for you to poke around in. No risk. All reward. It's just a copy of the current sim at the time. Obviously lines, strats and player attributes will change afterwards making it outdated but that is just how it goes, we know that risk.

No risk because I’m not trying to do anything to the league. Also the WC is a completely different file with different information.

 

We can argue in circles all day but ultimately the file isn’t going to be given so there’s no point. I’ve offered to test things for GM’s if they’d like me to, I also am simming pre-season which is never done for the VHLM. This is being far more generous than I need to be and taking more of my time than it needs to. I’m not going to release the file.

[SlashACM 38]

Just now, Beketov said:

No risk because I’m not trying to do anything to the league. Also the WC is a completely different file with different information.

 

We can argue in circles all day but ultimately the file isn’t going to be given so there’s no point. I’ve offered to test things for GM’s if they’d like me to, I also am simming pre-season which is never done for the VHLM. This is being far more generous than I need to be and taking more of my time than it needs to. I’m not going to release the file.

Alright, have a good day then.

[Enorama 2,038]

23 minutes ago, Beketov said:

It's not a matter of saving over the file I'm concerned about. I have a copy of that, Dropbox has a copy of that, and the other simmers have a Copy of that. It's overwriting and changing our actually output files on the server. Also, even if we could make the file read only it would then become useless since GM's wouldn't be able to change any of their lines in the file.

 

Ahhh I see. Is there any way to make a copy of the league file where the output isn't connected to the server?

 

Although I don't really know why people need the effort given just to be able to test things themselves. IMO part of the fun is needing to test strategies on the fly.

[Beketov 9,041]

11 minutes ago, Enorama said:

 

Ahhh I see. Is there any way to make a copy of the league file where the output isn't connected to the server?

 

Although I don't really know why people need the effort given just to be able to test things themselves. IMO part of the fun is needing to test strategies on the fly.

The file isn’t connected to the server directly, we upload after. But if someone was determined to attack the server the file would be a useful sword.

[SlashACM 38]

Hey all, your favorite shit disturber here. I made my own league file with accurate rosters and ratings, working on lines atm. PM me if you are interested in checking it out for test sims. 

 

@Beketov

 

Edited February 27, 2019 by SlashACM

[Beketov 9,041]

25 minutes ago, SlashACM said:

Hey all, your favorite shit disturber here. I made my own league file with accurate rosters and ratings, working on lines atm. PM me if you are interested in checking it out for test sims. 

 

@Beketov

 

How’d you pull that one off?

[BOOM 8,787]

Magic! 

[SlashACM 38]

12 minutes ago, Beketov said:

How’d you pull that one off?

Info all available in the client and index. Btw some GMs emails are available in the client file that I downloaded, might want to look into that

[Bushito 1,945]

4 hours ago, Peace said:

Thing about YOU finding the answer inadaquate is - ironically - also a you problem, Blade. I feel like you should have been less focused on getting higher AGM positions and actually taken a AGM spot that taught you to be a GM. @Sonnet knew very little about STHS and now he knows enough to comfortably draft, send lines, understand the sim and more because he took a spot on a team and learned how to do things the proper way. 

 

Now you have a trial trial by fire and it makes you nervous. If you weren’t ready to be a GM on VHL - which includes knowing more about the sim and how it functions - than perhaps you should have stayed a VHLM AGM and gotten that experience first hand.

 

I won’t pretend to know what Beaviss taught you though, but part of the identity of VHL is how the two leagues are simmed. No one in the VHL is asking right now, just saying. 

 

Part of being a GM is reacting to some lopsided scores, and that’s coming from someone who takes this league - as many have said in the Discord - very seriously. 

@Sonnet is garbage and Blade has me so pound sand turd.

[Beketov 9,041]

12 minutes ago, SlashACM said:

Info all available in the client and index. Btw some GMs emails are available in the client file that I downloaded, might want to look into that

I can’t say I’m happy about you bypassing me saying you arent allow to have it and creating it yourself. However if you want to take that much effort for the sake of tests that won’t really be accurate anyway be my guest.

 

Does the index list the sliders though? I don’t recall that.

[cpetrella 74]

Quite concerning that people that don’t know you can test sim for absolutely 0 dollars are in charge of this shit lmfao. I have GMed Team USA in SHL for 5+ seasons, GMed WJC before that, and have done many test sims for my SHL team and I haven’t paid a dime. I think it’s pretty reasonable for GMs to be able to test their lines, really. @Sonnet get off of your high horse buddy. 

[Bushito 1,945]

19 hours ago, Sonnet said:

 

You're an absolute fucking twat to call out my work ethic in literally any way. I've worked myself to the point of literally wanting to die over these last few weeks, and to have you sit here and proudly proclaim "ha, see? he just doesn't want to work!" is the most fucking insulting thing to not only me on this site, but me going through the roughest, most fucking rigorous month I've ever had.  

 

You can sit here and be snarky and ride atop your high blue collar horse, but trying to call me out for my unwillingness to work is one of the most fucking ridiculous things I've ever heard.

 

And YES! NHL teams DO practice! But they don't get to practice in perfect game situations against the exact opponents they expect to end up facing. There's a massive difference, but if the shit's already available to you and you want to use it, then fucking fine. I don't give a shit.

2

You worked yourself to the point of literally wanting to die on a sim league? Jesus Christ you need friends.

[cpetrella 74]

Just now, Sonnet said:

 

I backed off a LONG ass time ago when I found out you could test for free. fuck off already, you whiny cunts.

Not whining, just questioning how people don’t know this. Especially someone who I figure has been a very active part of this league.

[Bushito 1,945]

1 minute ago, Sonnet said:

 

I backed off a LONG ass time ago when I found out you could test for free. fuck off already, you whiny cunts.

You asked for it tbh, I just read this shit now and it's constant shit hurling and profanity from you while others are not. If it were up to me you'd have a week off from the site. Conduct yourself better, whether you have a difference of opinion or not, you don't express it that way. 

[Beketov 9,041]

4 minutes ago, cpetrella said:

Quite concerning that people that don’t know you can test sim for absolutely 0 dollars are in charge of this shit lmfao. I have GMed Team USA in SHL for 5+ seasons, GMed WJC before that, and have done many test sims for my SHL team and I haven’t paid a dime. I think it’s pretty reasonable for GMs to be able to test their lines, really. @Sonnet get off of your high horse buddy. 

Doing it and doing it without the league file aren’t the same thing. The SHL gives out the league file apparently, we don’t.

[cpetrella 74]

Just now, Beketov said:

Doing it and doing it without the league file aren’t the same thing. The SHL gives out the league file apparently, we don’t.

Yes, we do. I’m not sure why that’s an issue though? The simmer always has the sim file, and that is the one that’s used. How can a GM tamper with the simmer’s file? Unless you guys have some sort of special league file I really don’t see how that’s possible. Is everything all connected to the Portal in some way? Please forgive me for being misinformed, I’m very new to this league. In SHL there are no issues, all GMs and pretty much anyone on the site can get access to the sim file to test sim anything.

[Bushito 1,945]

2 minutes ago, Sonnet said:

 

No, actually. I've been working myself to death in literally everything BUT this sim league. I appreciate you making assumptions about what I'm prioritizing in like, and being a snide asshole because you think you know everything about me.

 

If you feel like being considerate for two goddamn seconds of your life, I've been working myself that much for the batshit amounts of work I've been having to do to keep a near 4.0 GPA. If you're actually ignorant enough to think that I'm doing nothing outside of visiting this goddamn website, and are confident enough to be that kind of a douchebag over me genuinely wanting to kill myself, then I ACTUALLY have no fucking words for your miserable ass.

 

If you genuinely want to kill yourself then I am sorry. But truly you are on this site a lot, it may be time to take a step back and ask for some help. Having suicidal thoughts is no joke, I've lost a few friends this way and it is a painful process for everyone involved, especially family.

[Bushito 1,945]

1 minute ago, Sonnet said:

 

Damn, that might have been the kind of comment to lead with, instead of making dipshit assumptions and kicking me while I'm down.

 

I'm done talking with you. Don't need your sympathy.

Nobody on this site would have taken that as a cry for help or a serious suicidal thought coming from you, especially in the context you posted it in. But yeah get some help man.

[Beketov 9,041]

12 minutes ago, cpetrella said:

Yes, we do. I’m not sure why that’s an issue though? The simmer always has the sim file, and that is the one that’s used. How can a GM tamper with the simmer’s file? Unless you guys have some sort of special league file I really don’t see how that’s possible. Is everything all connected to the Portal in some way? Please forgive me for being misinformed, I’m very new to this league. In SHL there are no issues, all GMs and pretty much anyone on the site can get access to the sim file to test sim anything.

I can talk with the BOG about it but it’s mostly potential risks I’ve mentioned elsewhere in this thread and the possibility of a wrong sim file being used by accident causing re-sims to be required. It’s not that GM’s directly can cause problems, just that we’re defensive of the file.

 

Honestly we’ve never seen test sims as being accurate enough to be worth the effort.

[cpetrella 74]

1 minute ago, Beketov said:

I can talk with the BOG about it but it’s mostly potential risks I’ve mentioned elsewhere in this thread and the possibility of a wrong sim file being used by accident causing re-sims to be required. It’s not that GM’s directly can cause problems, just that we’re defensive of the file.

 

Honestly we’ve never seen test sims as being accurate enough to be worth the effort.

How could you use the wrong sim file? The simmer doesn’t have access to the files on OTHER USER’s computers, so how is that even an issue? The simmer has their own separate file, which is theirs, and which is used for simming official league games. I really don’t see why the file can’t be shared other than because you guys just don’t want to