Let’s talk TPE inflation

[Beketov 9,029]

TPE inflation; It’s the boogeyman that the league tries to ignore every few seasons until it becomes too much of an issue and we inevitably need to deal with it. Arguably that boogeyman has gotten bigger than ever before right now so this old grumpy man of the VHL is here to talk about it; mainly since I don’t have that sweet sweet simmer pay this week.

 

Anywho, back in the day hitting 1000 TPE was a major milestone. Hitting 1500 was basically unheard of. Nowadays you’ll recognize that those numbers aren’t particularly difficult. I’ve got 2 seasons left and currently lead active players with 1350 TPE (a lead I expect @Victor to take back soon). Then you’ve got guys like @Beaviss with HHH being at 628 going into only their second season. It’s undeniable that TPE numbers have gotten a bit out out hand when you look at this in contrast to the futures I posted at the start. So what can be done about it?

 

Realistically we have two options. The first is to lower the amount of TPE we’re giving out on a regular basis but realistically no one wants to receive less of something when they’ve gotten used to it. Governments don’t fight inflation by giving out less money right? The other option is to increase the update scale to make it harsher and thus make the TPE -> TPA conversion a bit rougher. It might make it seem harsh but at least then people would get the numbers they are used to without us having players that are finished their build and ready to fight depreciation in their 4th season like I was.

 

Which is the answer? Hard to say. I lean towards the update scale but obviously both mean harder to update which people are going to complain about. As always though I leave it up for discussion, what do you guys think about our TPE inflation issue?

[Matt_O 897]

I think the best course of action is to make the TPA conversion rougher. Although I don't get how HHH has 628 TPE already? Like I have capped out every week since I started and I have less TPE despite being an S64 player, I don't know how he does it. But yeah a re-scaling of TPA is probably the best course of action

[Devise 4,475]

Am I the only one to hard disagree here? The hard earning of TPE whores allows them to handle steep depreciation. But did you see how hard depreciation with our update scale hits across the board? Especially in the final seasons. I actually think we are in a good spot. The heavy earners will have the excess to handle the steep falls in 7th/8th season while everyone else settles with the hard decisions of prioritizing attributes.

[Rayzor_7 741]

3 minutes ago, Devise said:

Am I the only one to hard disagree here? The hard earning of TPE whores allows them to handle steep depreciation. But did you see how hard depreciation with our update scale hits across the board? Especially in the final seasons. I actually think we are in a good spot. The heavy earners will have the excess to handle the steep falls in 7th/8th season while everyone else settles with the hard decisions of prioritizing attributes.

I would agree with Devise on this. 

The league seems fine where it is. The TPE whores will be able to handle depreciation, those who aren't will have a choice to make. 

I don't really see a need to change anything unless you are worried about the league parity becoming too tight, but then that's a different conversation.

[Devise 4,475]

Like at this point the TPE whores represent what 10% of the user base? I think that point should matter too. I saw tons of players who earn 6-9 week struggling with 7th/8th season depreciation, and ultimately accepting a worse player. 

 

Ultimately, we are kind of in a spot where everyone who earns good seems to peak player wise around 4th/5th seasons. But only the hard earners are handling depreciation fully as it steepens. If anything I'd more open to extending careers by 2 seasons to allow the TPE hard earners reason to keep banking. Especially with harder depreciation in 9th/10th you could argue they'd be the only players capable of handling it.

[Kyle 667]

I saw last week like 10+ people made 55-60 TPE in 1 week. That's absolutely absurd, needs to be looked into IMO. 

Edited July 7, 2019 by Kyle

[uphillmoss 134]

8 minutes ago, Devise said:

Like at this point the TPE whores represent what 10% of the user base? I think that point should matter too. I saw tons of players who earn 6-9 week struggling with 7th/8th season depreciation, and ultimately accepting a worse player. 

 

Ultimately, we are kind of in a spot where everyone who earns good seems to peak player wise around 4th/5th seasons. But only the hard earners are handling depreciation fully as it steepens. If anything I'd more open to extending careers by 2 seasons to allow the TPE hard earners reason to keep banking. Especially with harder depreciation in 9th/10th you could argue they'd be the only players capable of handling it.

The problem with extending career length is that the VHL is pretty full as it is. If you have the tpe whores lasting for 10 seasons, there is not going to be enough room for the first gens. Especially with the job our recruitment team is doing.

[Beketov 9,029]

1 minute ago, Kyle said:

I saw last week like 10+ people made 55-60 TPE in 1 week. That's absolutely absurd, needs to be looked into IMO. 

It was off-season which adds extra for sure with training camp and stuff but still.

[Kyle 667]

Just now, Beketov said:

It was off-season which adds extra for sure with training camp and stuff but still.

 

Figured that, of course. But even with that it's still a ton.

[Beketov 9,029]

21 minutes ago, Devise said:

Am I the only one to hard disagree here? The hard earning of TPE whores allows them to handle steep depreciation. But did you see how hard depreciation with our update scale hits across the board? Especially in the final seasons. I actually think we are in a good spot. The heavy earners will have the excess to handle the steep falls in 7th/8th season while everyone else settles with the hard decisions of prioritizing attributes.

FWIW I don’t think people who hit the cap should really be considered TPE whores. I basically just hit the cap + practice facility every week without anything else major and have 1350 TPE in 6 seasons plus a VHLM season. That seems like a lot from basically just hitting the cap plus the extra free stuff everyone gets.

[Kyle 667]

That being said, I think the thrill of earning TPE is a huge part of the addiction of the site. So maybe set a complete hard (including uncapped opportunities) cap of TPE per week, but allow the same opportunities. 

 

So a weekly capped TPE limit and then also a weekly total limit.

Edited July 7, 2019 by Kyle

[uphillmoss 134]

2 minutes ago, Kyle said:

 

Figured that, of course. But even with that it's still a ton.

Well, there is a lot of things that you could claim last week. Predictions, vhfl, nhl, and other things

[Kyle 667]

4 minutes ago, uphillmoss said:

Well, there is a lot of things that you could claim last week. Predictions, vhfl, nhl, and other things

 

I was one of the first guys to ever hit 1,000 TPE, I worked my ass off to do it. Earned the 9 TPE max every single week for 8 seasons. The fact that 10+ people earned almost half of what it took me a full season to earn, in a week, is a bit of a joke. Off-season TPE opportunities or no.

Edited July 8, 2019 by Kyle

[Kyle 667]

I don't mean to be an "old man yells at cloud" type thing, but I think the inflation from what I've seen while I've lurked is boarding on an absurd.

Edited July 8, 2019 by Kyle

[Devise 4,475]

8 minutes ago, Kyle said:

I saw last week like 10+ people made 55-60 TPE in 1 week. That's absolutely absurd, needs to be looked into IMO. 

 

I'm pretty sure some of that is people who claim bulk TPE from the season. As in I don't think they actually earned 55 TPE in a week. 

 

@Beketov I mean sure... but you do donations right? And max out player store purchases for depreciation ease. And all the uncapped you probably can. A high majority of the league doesn't even earn 12 a week. 7th and 8th season especially winds up looking like a 80 TPA drop to some members. Even with 50 banked they ain't handling it. The heavy earners who do max + anything else they can handle are the only ones who really handle steep depreciation under this already pretty steep update scale. I legitimately believe if we steepen it more, that those players may get entirely depreciated out of relevancy. You shouldn't have to earn 1000 TPE to be a relevant player in the VHL.  800+ in a career should still count for something. And with the current update scale it still does.

 

[uphillmoss 134]

2 minutes ago, Kyle said:

 

I was one of the first guys to ever hit 1,000 TPE, I worked my ass off to do it. Earned the 9 TPE max every single week for 8 seasons. The fact that 10+ people earned almost half of what it took me a full season to earn, in a week, is a bit of a joke. Off-season TPE opportunities or no.

That makes sense, but you are going to have a tough time getting most members to accept less offseason tpe

[Kyle 667]

Just now, uphillmoss said:

That makes sense, but you are going to have a tough time getting most members to accept less offseason tpe

 

Which is fine, I understand that. Just don't want to see the difference between all the players become too big of a gap

[uphillmoss 134]

3 minutes ago, Kyle said:

 

Which is fine, I understand that. Just don't want to see the difference between all the players become too big of a gap

I think that is a very noble cause, but there will always be people more active than others. One idea might be to reduce how much carryover you get. 

[Beaviss 4,957]

Increase the TPE needed to increase stats across the board and make it super harsh at the high 80's and stupid high getting into the 90's and then you stop the dice rolling the simulator does and fix TPE inflation.

 

Side note: increase player build diversity also.

Edited July 8, 2019 by Beaviss

[Kyle 667]

1 minute ago, uphillmoss said:

I think that is a very noble cause, but there will always be people more active than others. One idea might be to reduce how much carryover you get. 

 

Hardly noble, the league is more fun when all players can contribute a good amount instead of the average member barely scraping by stat wise and TPE whores carrying the team. The idea of having someone at 1350 points nearly doubling a 700 TPE player (who should be a very good 1st liner) is kind of absurd! Seeing it get worse would be tough.

[uphillmoss 134]

3 minutes ago, Beaviss said:

Increase the TPE needed to increase stats across the board and make it super harsh at the high 80's and stupid high getting into the 90's and then you stop the dice rolling the simulator does and fix TPE inflation.

 

Side note: increase player build diversity also.

The problem with this is that, only the tpe whores will be able to get to those high stats. This might create an even larger gap between the whores and the normal players

[Victor 10,946]

20 minutes ago, Kyle said:

 

Hardly noble, the league is more fun when all players can contribute a good amount instead of the average member barely scraping by stat wise and TPE whores carrying the team. The idea of having someone at 1350 points nearly doubling a 700 TPE player (who should be a very good 1st liner) is kind of absurd! Seeing it get worse would be tough.

But in reality is there much of a different in sim between 1350 and 700 TPE? Think 700 is enough to hit 90 in key attributes, anything above that is a luxury really.

[Beaviss 4,957]

26 minutes ago, uphillmoss said:

The problem with this is that, only the tpe whores will be able to get to those high stats. This might create an even larger gap between the whores and the normal players

 

In the current setup of the league and stat numbers it hurts the sths engine. The engine was not supposed to have everyone at 99 overall or even close to it. All it does it turn a simulation engine into a random number generator. Which for league health isn't the best thing. If you think of it as an algorithm having everyone at equal footing does not actually make anyone different. So my player Beau Louth at 99 scoring and a dman at 99 scoring are 50/50 success to failure. In a simulation game that is not realistic at all. 

 

My argument would be have everything higher than 85 would cost 20+ TPE that way every player is different and the league operates how the engine was built. Defencive dmen would actually be defencive and snipping forwards would actually just be snipers instead of two way gods.

 

Another good thing about making the TPE whores better than the rest is they are usually the ones putting the most work in. Should they not be rewarded with slightly higher stats?

 

Anyways that's my breakdown or how the league is currently broken and I'll edit in the answer I got from the creator of the engine himself when I asked how 99 stats work in the engine.

 

Feel like @Devise after I typed this 

Edited July 8, 2019 by Beaviss

[Beketov 9,029]

39 minutes ago, Devise said:

@Beketov I mean sure... but you do donations right?

Nope, haven’t donated since Miller.

[uphillmoss 134]

8 minutes ago, Beaviss said:

 

In the current setup of the league and stat numbers it hurts the sths engine. The engine was not supposed to have everyone at 99 overall or even close to it. All it does it turn a simulation engine into a random number generator. Which for league health isn't the best thing. If you think of it as an algorithm having everyone at equal footing does not actually make anyone different. So my player Beau Louth at 99 scoring and a dman at 99 scoring are 50/50 success to failure. In a simulation game that is not realistic at all. 

 

My argument would be have everything higher than 85 would cost 20+ TPE that way every player is different and the league operates how the engine was built. Defencive dmen would actually be defencive and snipping forwards would actually just be snipers instead of two way gods.

 

Another good thing about making the TPE whores better than the rest is they are usually the ones putting the most work in. Should they not be rewarded with slightly higher stats?

 

Anyways that's my breakdown or how the league is currently broken and I'll edit in the answer I got from the creator of the engine himself when I asked how 99 stats work in the engine.

 

Feel like @Devise after I typed this 

That makes a lot more sense framed this way. I didn’t realize that the issue here was that players have too much tpe.

Edited July 8, 2019 by uphillmoss