sterling 1,990 Posted August 21, 2014 Share Posted August 21, 2014 Sure I agree. So what do you want to do...replace all the GM's other than those two in the league? As far as I'm concerned getting rid of the "reasons" why a player wouldn't want to play for a team is a positive. Yes. Well to be fair, it just proves the point that's been made in here though Device. If the team had a good GM and some reasonable success, they'd be a premiere destination too. Look at Yukon. Is it a feasible pro hockey location? Is it a place anyone would truly want to go to? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sterling 1,990 Posted August 21, 2014 Share Posted August 21, 2014 And added to that, my problem will always be centred on the historical aspect of not wanting to move an original team in the league. Do I think Vasteras is silly? Ya. Madrid was silly as fuck too and had bad management. But I have nothing personal against the team. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Devise 4,475 Posted August 21, 2014 Share Posted August 21, 2014 (edited) Yes. Well to be fair, it just proves the point that's been made in here though Device. If the team had a good GM and some reasonable success, they'd be a premiere destination too. Look at Yukon. Is it a feasible pro hockey location? Is it a place anyone would truly want to go to? True, but it is also in the VHLM. The fact is I know members in this league who don't want to play for Vasteras due to either name, location, or league history. I also know some of them who would be willing to play for them if some of those changed. It is enough members I find that it would make a slight difference, which is better than no difference imo. You are right it all comes down to the GM's. But the good GM's are smart by hoarding the types of elite level talent that attract each other. It all ends up just piling on. People want to play with so and so, and they want to play on a good team with a good GM. It just so happens that the good gm managed to build a good team with 3 or 4 of the members they want to play with and before you know you get the stacked teams we have. Even though league parity in the VHL is still relatively good, having the top members that influence other members to join teams and who represent some of the leagues top star power all only want to go to the same few teams doesn't really help things. The non Vasteras teams who don't have those type of members already have a leg up on Vasty though. Because in a rebuild, if lets say Quebec drafts a top end member, Quebec may not be their top destination however the sheer fact that this member is willing to play for Quebec potentially long term and leaves that option open is an edge that Vasty may not have. Because there is just as much a chance that top member doesn't want to play for Vasty out of principle. Edited August 21, 2014 by Devise22 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BOOM 8,447 Posted August 21, 2014 Share Posted August 21, 2014 Vasteras to narrow down new locations, possible logo and colors discussed... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Devise 4,475 Posted August 21, 2014 Share Posted August 21, 2014 I agree with you about league history, and it's one of the reasons why I feel Vasty is the exception to the relocation rule. Because for tons of reasons their perception refuses to change. To many members here just hate them. I'm with you I don't hate them. Hell I left New York on my on will and WISHED to be traded to an expansion team still finding it's groove. But not all the top members are like yourself or like myself. It's just a fact of life. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sterling 1,990 Posted August 21, 2014 Share Posted August 21, 2014 True, but it is also in the VHLM. The fact is I know members in this league who don't want to play for Vasteras due to either name, location, or league history. I also know some of them who would be willing to play for them if some of those changed. It is enough members I find that it would make a slight difference, which is better than no difference imo. You are right it all comes down to the GM's. But the good GM's are smart by hoarding the types of elite level talent that attract each other. It all ends up just piling on. People want to play with so and so, and they want to play on a good team with a good GM. It just so happens that the good gm managed to build a good team with 3 or 4 of the members they want to play with and before you know you get the stacked teams we have. Even though league parity in the VHL is still relatively good, having the top members that influence other members to join teams and who represent some of the leagues top star power all only want to go to the same few teams doesn't really help things. The non Vasteras teams who don't have those type of members already have a leg up on Vasty though. Because in a rebuild, if lets say Quebec drafts a top end member, Quebec may not be their top destination however the sheer fact that this member is willing to play for Quebec potentially long term and leaves that option open is an edge that Vasty may not have. Because there is just as much a chance that top member doesn't want to play for Vasty out of principle. It's a lot of luck too Devise. Look at the difference between Cologne and New York or Calgary and Helsinki. A lot of it is lotto luck and rebuilding at the right time, which is what good GMs do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sterling 1,990 Posted August 21, 2014 Share Posted August 21, 2014 I agree with you about league history, and it's one of the reasons why I feel Vasty is the exception to the relocation rule. Because for tons of reasons their perception refuses to change. To many members here just hate them. I'm with you I don't hate them. Hell I left New York on my on will and WISHED to be traded to an expansion team still finding it's groove. But not all the top members are like yourself or like myself. It's just a fact of life. See I think there are a very few whom won't go to Vasteras, but they typically only hate for the sake of it now. There are far more new members that are either willing to go or at the very most, apathetic to the team. The hate on for Vasteras is very intense, but it only comes from a handful of members. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cuffy 343 Posted August 21, 2014 Share Posted August 21, 2014 Make me gm tbh Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BOOM 8,447 Posted August 21, 2014 Share Posted August 21, 2014 Take a number. #KendBoom Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted August 21, 2014 Share Posted August 21, 2014 (edited) Vasteras to narrow down new locations, possible logo and colors discussed... He couldn't even get a captaincy spot, what a weakling he is. Edited August 21, 2014 by Kendrick Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike 708 Posted August 21, 2014 Share Posted August 21, 2014 (edited) @Devise's super post naming me "Regarding the Vastears situation Mike is so far exaggeration it isn't even funny." WTF are you talking about bro. I said that my opinion on the matter is that the BoG shouldn't force Vasty to do anything. I didn't say that the BoG was doing this I said I don't think they should. Every time Kendrick responded after me was along the lines of saying we can do whatever we want to Vasteras if we want to. I also posted what I saw in the BoG which was essentially members talking about where Vasteras should go, color schemes, and so on. I don't know the situation on Vasteras and I didn't say I did. I said my opinion on the situation and what looked like was happening in the BoG. "Also Mike/Corco, regarding transparency" I have never asked for transparency by the BoG ever. "And Mike we have had zero other conversations about moving other teams." Thats great but again I never said you did. I said the BoG SHOULDN"T have that power in my opinion which everyone is entitled to. Edited August 21, 2014 by Mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BOOM 8,447 Posted August 21, 2014 Share Posted August 21, 2014 The B.O.G. Bringers Of Greatness Victor 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted August 21, 2014 Share Posted August 21, 2014 Every time Kendrick responded after me was along the lines of saying we can do whatever we want to Vasteras if we want to.I did? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ball 453 Posted August 21, 2014 Share Posted August 21, 2014 Just for the sake of throwing my two cents in, I for one don't hate Vasteras. I would play for Vasteras if I hadn't promised Greg I'd spend my career in Seattle. By the time Greg left and I would have left Seattle, I was sick and tired of Ball's career and decided to retire. Now though I don't hate Vasteras, I do agree a change in scenery for the franchise would be a refreshing change. The fact that it becomes a fresh new franchise would make it a more atractive destination to a lot of old and new members minds which could only help the franchise. Everyone wants to be apart of history and this could help upstart the franchise that still holds all of Vasteras's records but is just run under a new name. For those fighting to keep Vasteras there, I really don't see your points. I understand that Vasteras has a history (a poor history, but history none the less) but what would moving the franchise really hurt? I feel like this has turned into a battle for pride and you will always battle each other if the franchise moves or stays put. The only way a move of the franchise would hurt the league is if everyone who was for maintaining Vasteras turns face and vows to never go to the new franchise which only makes you the newer version of the current Vasteras haters. Sadly this will never end because neither of the side will ever give up on this and nothing will get done. I'm all for the relocation of Vasteras. As long as the BOG, Blue Team, and Boubabi can come to a conclusion everyone can agree on, I don't see a problem with moving the team. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kesler 1,514 Posted August 21, 2014 Share Posted August 21, 2014 Other members who also have the same stigma of having players want to play for them at times don't want to go to Vasteras. That in and of itself creates a ripple effect. Some of the hot spot destinations in the league right now are Helsinki and New York. The two teams with some of the most prominent members in the league. Players would love to go to those teams. Riga is building a good stigma as well with it's own group. It's tough enough to get people to come play for you over those franchises even when you don't have people blanket hating you because of your name and league history. Teams like Calgary and Toronto have good player history and some players already don't want to play there. Almost certain Seattle is a top destination, we like to pride on our activity tbh. scoop and Kendrick 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BOOM 8,447 Posted August 21, 2014 Share Posted August 21, 2014 I played there and while I didn't agree with the attempt to chase a cup, I didn't hate it there either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike 708 Posted August 21, 2014 Share Posted August 21, 2014 I did? I just re-read the two posts you followed me with. "We aren't picking every last detail for a franchise that is the brunt of all jokes for good reason. The BOG is pretty unbiased when it comes to things such as relocation and teams. However when you have prominent members saying they won't join Vasteras if drafted there, we do have to talk about it." That is exactly what I want to hear. We aren't picking the details the BoG is unbiased when it comes to these things but because we consider Vasteras a joke we should talk about them as a relocation candidate. I'm fine with that and understand the logic behind that. To make it clear my stance is not yes relocate or no don't relocate it is if there is to be a relocation the BoG shouldn't control it. This was the second comment you made. "Keep in mind if the GM has full control over everything, that does mess with the VHL culture and image. Colour scheme and city is not up to the GM unless expansion was brought in." Now I interpret this as the exact opposite of your first post. Things are not up to the GM and essentially that means that the BoG is in total control. Now I don't understand how you or Devise can think I mean anything other than what I'm saying which is I don't think the BoG should control this process. Thats just my opinion its all I'm trying to get across and the information that everyone else is "leaking" to me seems to be that it is. frescoelmo 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kyle 667 Posted August 21, 2014 Share Posted August 21, 2014 Gotcha. And I'd probably disagree with him as well, but the only reason Vasteras has the image that it does is because people like Kyle perpetuate the idea that Vasteras is the scum of the earth. Honestly, though, it seems like more people are defending Vasteras than calling for their move. That's because it is the scum of the earth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted August 21, 2014 Share Posted August 21, 2014 I just re-read the two posts you followed me with. "We aren't picking every last detail for a franchise that is the brunt of all jokes for good reason. The BOG is pretty unbiased when it comes to things such as relocation and teams. However when you have prominent members saying they won't join Vasteras if drafted there, we do have to talk about it." That is exactly what I want to hear. We aren't picking the details the BoG is unbiased when it comes to these things but because we consider Vasteras a joke we should talk about them as a relocation candidate. I'm fine with that and understand the logic behind that. To make it clear my stance is not yes relocate or no don't relocate it is if there is to be a relocation the BoG shouldn't control it. This was the second comment you made. "Keep in mind if the GM has full control over everything, that does mess with the VHL culture and image. Colour scheme and city is not up to the GM unless expansion was brought in." Now I interpret this as the exact opposite of your first post. Things are not up to the GM and essentially that means that the BoG is in total control. Now I don't understand how you or Devise can think I mean anything other than what I'm saying which is I don't think the BoG should control this process. Thats just my opinion its all I'm trying to get across and the information that everyone else is "leaking" to me seems to be that it is. For the last time everyone. The BOG discusses things, the blue team is the one making the decisions. Yes they loo at what we post but there is a ton of things shot down by the blue team. Hell the thread you are talking about that you saw in the BOG is started by a blue team member. Also I poorly worded one of those sentences you quoted Mike. "We aren't picking every last detail for a franchise that is the brunt of all jokes for good reason." What I meant was this: We aren't picking every last detail of the franchise. The team is the brunt of so many jokes because of it's location, appeal and success combined. Boubabi isn't left out to dry when it comes to whats going to happen with Vasteras. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Devise 4,475 Posted August 21, 2014 Share Posted August 21, 2014 Mike I was talking about an exaggeration regarding what you saw in the BoG when you came in. You were stating and I'm too lazy right now to find the exact quote, that you saw a lot of talk about where they were going and headed. You did admit that it was a crazy large thread, but I just wanted to clarify that it is exaggerating the lack of debate that actual went on in regards to Vasteras moving. Not because you intended to or meant to, I just wanted people to be clear that the BoG didn't wake up one day and decide Vasteras is moving and that we were now deciding what was happening. It was and by the looks of this thread still is a long debate. However the Blue Team and the majority of the BoG have come to some sort of consensus, one that as you can clearly see by the responses of even someone on the BoG in Sterling doesn't please everybody. Anyway I wasn't meaning to call you out regarding that. You never flat out called for transparency but you and Hustles both hinted at the lack of "league discussion" regarding the Vasteras situation. Which is pretty hilarious. This topic has been an ongoing topic in the league not just the BoG for some time now. Every single time the conversation is brought up, the members who are super hardcore about defending Vasteras show up, some of the Vasteras haters show up. But those are the sides that don't bother me. You know how many people have not posted in this thread who have told me they wouldn't play for Vasteras in the past? TONS. But they aren't bad people, they aren't bad members. If drafted to Vasteras, I'd say those members would play the three seasons and test FA. It isn't the Vasteras haters that I'm speaking of Sterling, it's those who simply would rather go nearly anywhere else in the league. They don't actively pan for the relocation, they just don't give a shit about the team because of the league perception it has cultivated. The "drama" surrounding Vasteras will hurt it in these members eyes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frank 4,818 Posted August 21, 2014 Share Posted August 21, 2014 Came in to read what devise posted... Actually... Too long didn't read. Summarize to like a 10th of that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Devise 4,475 Posted August 21, 2014 Share Posted August 21, 2014 The most recent one was only three paragraphs. Not the 8 or 10 or whatever the hell it was I put a few pages back. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frank 4,818 Posted August 21, 2014 Share Posted August 21, 2014 The most recent one was only three paragraphs. Not the 8 or 10 or whatever the hell it was I put a few pages back. I was reading the Quebec LR posts and realized that our season discussion threads were longer then any Lord of the Rings books. Way to go! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Devise 4,475 Posted August 21, 2014 Share Posted August 21, 2014 (edited) I was reading the Quebec LR posts and realized that our season discussion threads were longer then any Lord of the Rings books. Way to go! I'm sure we could compile all my VHL posts to be the longest most uninteresting book of all time. Edited August 21, 2014 by Devise22 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frank 4,818 Posted August 21, 2014 Share Posted August 21, 2014 I'm sure we could compile all my VHL posts to be the longest most uninteresting book of all time. That made my night. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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