Recruitment Survey Update

[thadthrasher 1,692]

I wanted to start by saying “thank you” to everyone who contributed to the survey. As of right now we have 52 responses, some answering all of the questions, others not. I wanted to take some time to offer some of the bigger insights that I gained through this survey. Please note that when I offer my insight I am doing so based on what this data shows, so some assumptions will not consider the whole picture. My hope for this survey was that it would offer some clue as to how the community felt things were going, get a better understanding of how people got here, what’s kept them around, and why they’ve possibly considered leaving.

 

All of the responses will remain anonymous, and the only people who can see them are the recruitment team. Of course, if you are reading this and have not responded to the survey you are still more than welcome to do that here.

 

I read through every response and tried to categorize them as best as I could. I’ll elaborate and clarify any questions that you may have. After reading through this please consider sharing your thoughts, offering suggestions, and putting out ideas.

 

How did you find out about the VHL?

YouTube – 21

Reddit – 7

Affiliate League/Un-Affiliated League – 7

Friend/Personal Referral – 7

Search Engine – 4

Other (other website with a forum style) – 2

Don’t Remember – 1

Twitter – 1

 

It is immediately clear that YouTube is our best recruiting tool, there really isn’t much doubt about that. What was brought out in this survey, with people sharing which channels brought them in and through the area where we asked for input, is that YouTube channels that focus solely on EA NHL video games are simply not doing it. They’ve brought it a few people who have stuck around, including myself, but the best channel seems to have been RobTalksHockey. Your suggestions have stated that we look for channels that focus more on roleplay, the statistic side of hockey, and things like that. We are looking into this and would love some suggestions here!

 

The next biggest recruitment tool we have is Reddit and referrals from other leagues. Historically, we have not done well with Reddit due to mods not liking us. What we’ve encouraged users to do in the past has been against Reddit Terms of Service, and we frankly don’t have a good reputation in on Reddit. Ricer is currently trying to mend some fences, and we are going to work hard to make Reddit a viable recruiting area. As far as other sim leagues go, we’d encourage you to be a positive presence in those communities and point people back to the VHL when appropriate.

 

What was the main reason you joined?

Seemed Fun/Enjoyable/Interesting – 18

Enjoy Hockey – 11

Bored – 7

A Friend – 6

Being a part of a hockey community – 4

Uniqueness of league – 3

Player Management – 2

Lack of Hockey (COVID) – 3

Creativity – 2

People here are in another league – 2

Enjoy Hockey Stats – 1

Learning about a new sport – 1

Wanting to be a GM – 1

End of another league – 1

 

People who have joined this league, largely, have been curious about what we do. They have found it to be intriguing, and a possible way to have fun and curb some of the boredom in their lives. Many of them enjoy hockey and found themselves joining because they needed something to do or because a friend referred them. We see a few points here and there about personal aspirations. No matter what, this is incredibly subjective and doesn’t really aim us in any particular direction. While no one said that it was the advertising that made them join, the advertising does spark interest and curiosity. Also, what brings people in and what keeps them here will change over time. If we run ads during a pandemic where most people are home for long hours their reasoning for staying will look much different than those who join in the middle of the fall post-COVID restrictions.

 

Main reason you stayed?

Community/Other People – 31

Enjoy the league all together – 7

Watching my player do better/advance – 5

Stability/Routine of Earning – 4

Team/LR/Help from Others – 3

League Job – 4

Organization of League – 3

Other people I like are here – 3

Forum content – 2

Break from real life – 2

Daily sims – 2

I didn’t – 1

I’m obsessive – 1

Affiliate Earning – 1

 

This overwhelming response really didn’t surprise me too much. Many of the people that I talk to regularly here in this league have mentioned liking the community aspect of what we do. Understand, many of the responses simply said, “the community” here and there is a lot that goes into that word. It means people choose to spend their time here because they enjoy the people, they feel a sense of connection to others, this is a group of people they are willing to attach themselves to, despite how dysfunctional we may be. So, while many join the league because it looks like fun and they like hockey, they seem to stick around for a sense of community, of belonging. In a world where everyone is over connected with one another, we have some of the loneliest feeling people there ever have been. No wonder people long for a sense of belonging! I think it’s safe to say that the VHL of today, according to what we see here, is less about building an amazing player and winning cups (though that is a plus) and more about having a group of people that others want to be around.

 

Have you wanted to quit? If so, why?

No – 18

Yes – 16

Burnout (either league job related or TPE earning) - 9

Player Progression Daunting/Too Much Time to Max Earn – 8

Community Immaturity/Overreaction and correction/Drama – 7

Real Life Stuff – 6

Socio-Political Stances in League – 5

Loss of Interest/Motivation – 4

Dead Chat/LR/Absent Management – 3              

Poor Team Performance/Lack of Icetime - 3

Previous issues that have now been resolved – 2

TPE Carryover/Pension/Recreates Have Priority over New Players – 2

New Hybrid System – 1

TPE Ban – 1

 

I’m not going to lie, at first this shocked me a little bit. I thought for sure the number of people who had wanted to quit before would have been higher than those who did not. Anyways, the highest reason that people have thought about quitting is not surprising, burnout. Adding the responsibilities of league jobs on top of real-life priorities and constant critique and beratement from other members seems to be what causes people to want to step away. Essentially, “I don’t get paid enough for this crap” sort of stuff. Some who mentioned burnout were more focused on the actual process of earning TPE, which bleeds into the next highest reason. Many expressed that max earning takes too much time, and if you don’t max earn you don’t do nearly as well as players who do. I imagine this mindset will spark some interesting conversation.

The next largest reason people have wanted to leave, “Community Immaturity/Overreaction and correction/Drama” was also not very surprising. Essentially, there were two directions that these responses went, and I’m paraphrasing here when I say them. 1) Feelings of over moderation in the league, 2) There is too much drama. I won’t go much into this here because, frankly, it’s been hashed out enough in the past with previous articles. Check out @Gustav's.

 

Naturally people’s lives outside of the VHL pull them away. Personally, since joining the VHL, I’ve moved, started a new job, had a child, and am about to graduate from school. Real life really can pull you away from this. It makes sense that real life issues/things pull people from the league and make them want to step away.

“Socio-Political Stances in League” was a category that I used to try and reign in some pretty strong opinions. Essentially, and again paraphrasing, those whose answers contained things for this category expressed strong feelings of socio-political stances bearing too much weight in the league. There were concerns that some want to come here to escape the rest of the world, not have it follow them in here. Another response to this pointed to feelings of hypocrisy from leadership and moderation. On top of that a line that seemed to capture some of what some people said was, “the exclusive inclusivity of only one way of thinking that actually pushes people of different viewpoints away and makes sure that the league is only inclusive to people who go with the narrative.”

 

My Thoughts

Again, I’d like to thank everyone who responded to this survey. It really has been helpful. Also, please note that this is an incredibly small sample size of the VHL. The opinions of 50 people do NOT speak for everyone, and that must be understood. If you find that this data misrepresents how you feel, or you want to add to it, please go back and complete the survey.

 

Anyways, my biggest takeaways from all of this is that we need to continue advertising through YouTube, but switch up the channels we advertise with. On top of that, building good relationships with Reddit moderators will help us in the hopefully near future. These are two areas that we really should focus on. I’ve heard from a few others who have been in Recruitment that it can be taxing to keep posting things every day, or nearly every day, and have little return, so I’m not too worried about gaining a massive Twitter/Instagram following.

Next, no matter what we can’t deny that people like being a part of this community. It could be the connection, the establishment of friendships, or even just a community where you can feel able to “be yourself.” Whatever it is, this is important. This is a part of retention that falls on all of us. Some of the responses talked about the way people in leadership do or do not interact with people. When I first arrive in the VHL I loved when commissioners, managers, and even mods talked to me. I felt, as a new and small guy on the VHL food chain, that when they took time to see how I was doing or just engage in conversation that they were actually glad that I was here. Others expressed a similar feeling. This isn’t a call to arms saying that blues need to step it up, they have plenty to do as it is. However, sometimes being more intentional on who you check in with would be helpful, I imagine. With that, all of us, especially those of us who are in leadership positions, need to be more aware with how we interact with one another and members who aren’t in these positions. No matter who it is they watch what you do and say, and that helps them determine if they want to stick around for the long haul.

 

There have been whispers even outside of this survey that TPE earning can be too arduous for some. As someone who has max earned every week (except for maybe 2 or 3) I understand that this can be cumbersome. However, I don’t think there needs to be a major overhaul of our TPE earning ways. The concern that non-max earning players don’t get as much priority as max earners is, in my opinion, not a legitimate concern. Here’s why. Those who max earn, for the most part, are doing a substantial amount of work to do so. Their work is then compensated with points that allow their players to perform better in the simulation, at least in theory. I do think it’s fair that those who put in the time deserve more important roles on their respective teams. This isn’t to say I don’t value people who don’t max earn, but please do not be surprised that you aren’t always a 1^st or even 2^nd liner.

 

That about sums up some things that stuck out to me and stuck out in my head. Please remember that these are my thoughts and do not necessarily reflect the thoughts of others on the recruitment team.

 

Again, I ask that you share any ideas that you have, ask for clarification, or talk about what you have read here!

---

@Ricer13 @Moon @Frank @rjfryman

Edited May 8, 2022 by thadthrasher

[v.2 1,406]

8 minutes ago, thadthrasher said:

How did you find out about the VHL?

YouTube – 21

Reddit – 7

Affiliate League/Un-Affiliated League – 7

Friend/Personal Referral – 7

Search Engine – 4

Other (other website with a forum style) – 2

Don’t Remember – 1

Twitter – 1

 

It is immediately clear that YouTube is our best recruiting tool, there really isn’t much doubt about that. What was brought out in this survey, with people sharing which channels brought them in and through the area where we asked for input, is that YouTube channels that focus solely on EA NHL video games are simply not doing it. They’ve brought it a few people who have stuck around, including myself, but the best channel seems to have been RobTalksHockey. Your suggestions have stated that we look for channels that focus more on roleplay, the statistic side of hockey, and things like that. We are looking into this and would love some suggestions here!

I didn't do the survey nor did I read this entire post but just wanted to share a thought.  Is YouTube really the best recruiting tool or just the one that was used the most lately?  I feel like IG and TikTok can see just as much if not more success than YouTube has had.  Getting well established nhl/hockey/sports/role playing/gaming accounts to run ads in their stories, or posts I'd imagine would be more broad and efficient rather than selecting niche YouTubers.  Also what is the leagues budget for runnings ads?  I assume a portion of donations each season is banked for recruitment.

[thadthrasher 1,692]

2 minutes ago, v.2 said:

Is YouTube really the best recruiting tool or just the one that was used the most lately?

I made this claim solely based on what's been done in the past. I do think advertising with TikTok could have some potential. 

 

3 minutes ago, v.2 said:

Also what is the leagues budget for runnings ads?

There isn't a set budget for advertising. We come up with ideas, propose it and it's either approved or denied. I was told that, generally speaking, YouTube ads have gone from $150-$250

[jacobcarson877 2,534]

Really interesting stuff and I was really curious to see the initial results.

I do agree that obviously the largest recruitment drives recently have been through youtube, and just because there have been the most responses saying Youtube recruited them, doesn't mean it is the most effective tool. I think other platforms, particularly Twitter (which has an incredibly active hockey community) and Tiktok (which has an algorithm scarily good at providing content people are interested in) could be more efficient platforms to recruit from. The big issue with Youtube is you really have to search for what you're interested in, which means we are only reaching audiences actively searching videos on hockey simulation (NHL video games etc.).

I personally was recruited from Reddit during the last big Reddit drive from what I gather, and I hope that wecan continue to rebuild the relationship there, because despite me not being an active Reddit user, the ad there brought me in immediately.

Really excited to see what the new team can do, and there's a lot of great talent so I expect big things

Edited May 8, 2022 by jacobcarson877

[Shindigs 1,771]

Something I see as another issue with YouTube ads specifically is how specific a channel it needs to be. Apparently Chell channels don't work that well, so you need more general hockey content channels. But if the channel is too big, the number of new creates coming in would be more than the league can absorb, so it can't be too big either. The 2nd ad on the same channel suffers from massive diminishing returns, since most of the community will have already given it a shot. So you can't really go back to the same channel over and over again either.
 

Which means you'd basically need to keep finding general hockey content channels with around 40k subs over and over, are there even enough channels like that to make it a sustainable strategy? I mean to be fair you also have the Twitch streamer side of things, so that gives another avenue. Where you could sponsor them and get a more slow and steady stream of referrals than the shotgun approach of a YT video where basically the entire community will see it at the exact same time. Also just in general the Twitch demographic tends to be more, shall we call it "nerdy", than YT. Which probably would get you closer to hitting the VHLs core demographic, as really most of what we do here is a lot nerdier than it is hockey related.

[Berocka 2,263]

9 hours ago, thadthrasher said:

share any ideas

For the low low price of $2,500 AUD you can sponsor a player in Brisbane Australia. I get two free tickets to every game and a signed jersey and you get about 2,000-4,000 Australian eyeballs on your ad for ten home games. It's a win win.

[Ricer13 2,796]

9 hours ago, jacobcarson877 said:

I personally was recruited from Reddit during the last big Reddit drive from what I gather, and I hope that wecan continue to rebuild the relationship there, because despite me not being an active Reddit user, the ad there brought me in immediately

This is currently my main focus. I am speaking with a number of different Reddit pages new and old and I can say things are going very well at this point. It’s important to mend old relationships and that’s exactly what we will be trying to do with Reddit.

Edited May 8, 2022 by Ricer13

[Jack Johnson 124]

10 hours ago, thadthrasher said:

I made this claim solely based on what's been done in the past. I do think advertising with TikTok could have some potential. 

 

There isn't a set budget for advertising. We come up with ideas, propose it and it's either approved or denied. I was told that, generally speaking, YouTube ads have gone from $150-$250

Why dont you guys try to get sponsors? Have someone like  Nasher endorse the VHL

[nurx 914]

13 hours ago, thadthrasher said:

“the exclusive inclusivity of only one way of thinking that actually pushes people of different viewpoints away and makes sure that the league is only inclusive to people who go with the narrative.”

Honestly don't think this is an argument. The politics that this league forces on the members are moderate at best and honestly should be standard viewpoints. Including LGBTQ+ rights and other ideas. We should strive to be a more inclusive community to those who are negatively impacted by the world than those who aren't impacted by the fact that people exist in a community.

 

I might be wrong on what is being pushed, but I do not see much politics here besides LGBTQ+ rights and Ukraine.

[nurx 914]

2 hours ago, Jack Johnson said:

Why dont you guys try to get sponsors? Have someone like  Nasher endorse the VHL

they have in the past.

[nurx 914]

3 hours ago, Ricer13 said:

This is currently my main focus. I am speaking with a number of different Reddit pages new and old and I can say things are going very well at this point. It’s important to mend old relationships and that’s exactly what we will be trying to do with Reddit.

I wonder if there are stats heavy Instagram or TikTok pages that would be good ad spots.

[thadthrasher 1,692]

3 hours ago, Jack Johnson said:

Why dont you guys try to get sponsors? Have someone like  Nasher endorse the VHL

While I do like Nasher he hits a demographic that likely wouldn't enjoy what we do here. Plus, he's pretty steeped in other sponsors and is likely way out of our price range.

[thadthrasher 1,692]

1 hour ago, nurx said:

I wonder if there are stats heavy Instagram or TikTok pages that would be good ad spots.

It's certainly worth looking into. I don't use TikTok, so maybe that can been a @Moon thing lol

[N0HBDY 1,119]

Tl;dr?

 

[thadthrasher 1,692]

Just now, N0HBDY said:

Tl;dr?

 

I don't know what that means. Did you have a stroke while typing?

[jacobcarson877 2,534]

Just now, thadthrasher said:

I don't know what that means. Did you have a stroke while typing?

too long : didn't read (basically asking for a condensed main idea summary to glance through)

[thadthrasher 1,692]

10 minutes ago, jacobcarson877 said:

too long : didn't read (basically asking for a condensed main idea summary to glance through)

Ahh, gotcha. 

@N0HBDY it's not that long, you can read it 

[youloser1337 1,106]

22 hours ago, thadthrasher said:

How did you find out about the VHL?

YouTube – 21

Reddit – 7

Affiliate League/Un-Affiliated League – 7

Friend/Personal Referral – 7

Search Engine – 4

Other (other website with a forum style) – 2

Don’t Remember – 1

Twitter – 1

 

It is immediately clear that YouTube is our best recruiting tool, there really isn’t much doubt about that. What was brought out in this survey, with people sharing which channels brought them in and through the area where we asked for input, is that YouTube channels that focus solely on EA NHL video games are simply not doing it. They’ve brought it a few people who have stuck around, including myself, but the best channel seems to have been RobTalksHockey. Your suggestions have stated that we look for channels that focus more on roleplay, the statistic side of hockey, and things like that. We are looking into this and would love some suggestions here!

 

As a VHLM GM, I think youtube was a blessing and a curse for ads. Sure, you got a lot of people joining the league, but how many stayed? It was a mix of people who join, realize its not be a pro style and then leave. Create and leave is very common now. Look at create a player and see how many unclaimed waiver pitches there are. Maybe explaining how the league works would be better?

[thadthrasher 1,692]

Just now, youloser1337 said:

 

As a VHLM GM, I think youtube was a blessing and a curse for ads. Sure, you got a lot of people joining the league, but how many stayed? It was a mix of people who join, realize its not be a pro style and then leave. Create and leave is very common now. Look at create a player and see how many unclaimed waiver pitches there are. Maybe explaining how the league works would be better?

The problem with some of the YouTube ads is that the channels would create their own, and often misrepresented what we did here. Often, they were channels focused on EA NHL games, and so it makes sense that people expected this to be a league much like League Gaming where you make a player, join a team, and actually play the EA NHL game. 

 

Advertisements on YouTube will be more focused on channels that provoke interest in hockey, but not EA NHL. With that, we're going to be adamant that whoever advertises for us in the future either sends us a script that we approve or we write a script for them. Either way, while advertising is a lot of schmoozing, we need to stand firm in some areas so that our league isn't misrepresented to the masses.

[STZ 5,360]

I can't seem to find the amount of TPE we can claim for doing the survey..