2015-2016 NHL Discussion

[FacePuncher 1,343]

5 hours ago, Mr. Power said:

 

He makes up overall stats in limited performances where he achieves. Take away the first round series from these playoffs and how do his stats look? He went pointless in 4 of 6 against Caps, he just had the benefit of great performances (and some bounces) from other players. That is the thing about Crosby. He can go hilariously cold for 20 games and then get 20 points in the next 10 and his stat sheet makes up for it. Playoffs and Olympics fall in line with that at times.

I'm really not sure where you're getting this from. Olympics he was bad but he came up when it counted most. Playoffs, unless I'm missing something I just went through game logs and found 3 series he didn't show up for, the '09 cup, '14 v. New York, and this year v. Caps. You can count last year too, but considering it was 1v8 seed and Crosby was still the best skater out there for us, I don't. 2 of those the Penguins won anyway.

 

as far as this year goes, he had an amazing first round, a bad second round that we still won, and a great conference finals. I mean 3 of our 4 wins were decided by Crosby. He had 5 points in 7 games, yes, but 3 of those points were game winners. So far this series he has 2 assist in 2 games, has played very well, and called Sheary's goal how it would happen the other night (there was an article on it) so he's been indispensable this cup finals so far

 

and seriously, limited performances? You don't have to like Crosby, but that's just not true. Crosby just had his worst cold streak this year, 11 points in 20 games. Then he followed it up with 20 in the next 20, 28 in the next 20, and 26 in the next 20. Other than the beginning of the year he's had one cold streak that lasted 8 games. It's not the half and half split you're making it out to be. Crosby is a streaky-ish player, you can find some cold streaks throughout his career. But the majority of the time he's tearing up the league. Besides this year, where he still played great 3/4 of the year, and last year which was so incredibly low scoring. Thats what the game logs are telling me at least, feel free to bring something up in case you think I missed it

[Devise 4,475]

1 hour ago, ADwyer87 said:

I'm really not sure where you're getting this from. Olympics he was bad but he came up when it counted most. Playoffs, unless I'm missing something I just went through game logs and found 3 series he didn't show up for, the '09 cup, '14 v. New York, and this year v. Caps. You can count last year too, but considering it was 1v8 seed and Crosby was still the best skater out there for us, I don't. 2 of those the Penguins won anyway.

 

as far as this year goes, he had an amazing first round, a bad second round that we still won, and a great conference finals. I mean 3 of our 4 wins were decided by Crosby. He had 5 points in 7 games, yes, but 3 of those points were game winners. So far this series he has 2 assist in 2 games, has played very well, and called Sheary's goal how it would happen the other night (there was an article on it) so he's been indispensable this cup finals so far

 

and seriously, limited performances? You don't have to like Crosby, but that's just not true. Crosby just had his worst cold streak this year, 11 points in 20 games. Then he followed it up with 20 in the next 20, 28 in the next 20, and 26 in the next 20. Other than the beginning of the year he's had one cold streak that lasted 8 games. It's not the half and half split you're making it out to be. Crosby is a streaky-ish player, you can find some cold streaks throughout his career. But the majority of the time he's tearing up the league. Besides this year, where he still played great 3/4 of the year, and last year which was so incredibly low scoring. Thats what the game logs are telling me at least, feel free to bring something up in case you think I missed it

 

And again more misunderstanding.

 

I don't dislike Crosby. He's a very talented player. How many times do I have to say that in my posts? I dislike when his teams do well, specifically when he ranges anywhere from bad to average to good. Why? Because I know, and live around enough fair weather fans who only and always talk about him and just him when anything he is associated does well. Do you get it? I hate the perception that if his team does well it's because "he's the greatest player to play the game." Not only is it wrong, it's an over simplification of how TEAM orientated the game of hockey is. Team Canada wins golds regardless of Sid, and they will continue to. Because you know, Toews, Doughty, Keith, Bergeron, can I keep listing? Team Canada as a TEAM has some of the best hockey players around. Does Crosby help them? Of course. I'm not out here saying I dislike Sid and he doesn't make a difference. He is ONE of the greatest players in the game.

 

Edit - As far as stats go as well you just proved some of my points. He had 11 points in 20 and then went on a tear. He's gone pointless in 8 of his 20 playoff games this season, and has 5 other games where his lone point was a single assist in games that were high scoring enough that his "point total" impact alone was not a huge contributing factor to why his team won. That means, from a purely points/goal perspective his serious contributions happened in 7 playoff games thus far. Which again, I'm not saying he isn't a talented player. The basis of my argument isn't "Sidney Crosby sucks he should never be talked about, all he does is under perform."  It's more "he is just as cold as any other player, and his stats consistently LOOK better because when he's good he can be great. However he is far from the undisputed greatest player to ever play the game that some fair weather Canadian fans make him out to be. The stats showcase that just as well, as despite how great he is, his cold streaks make it so he can be completely out of award contention in certain seasons."

 

Also regarding the Sheary play, Crosby himself admitted he calls plays on every faceoffs. He said he still got like 24 of those called plays wrong. But that doesn't not make it a very impressive play, it was. I guess the reality is I'm calling him overrated not because of him, but because of the perception around him. When he does even remotely good, he doesn't even have to be great, the articles begin. Meanwhile there are tons of other players who on a given night, a given series, contribute far more than he does and they get half the attention. That is bullshit, and it's why I call him overrated. People WANT so badly for him to do well that regardless of how well he actually does he receives all the claim. He's only won a single Stanely Cup, for now. Even if he does win it this year, he hasn't even come CLOSE to the dynasty levels of greatness of names like Gretzky. That isn't meant to be a shot at Crosby, it's just reality. Crosby is one of the top 5 NHL players of his era, and will be a Hall of Famer and rightfully so. But based on all the evidence I've seen, there is no way in hell he deserves the just outright recognition again regardless of his own individual performances, so long as his teams do well, that he gets. 

Edited June 3, 2016 by Mr. Power

[Kendrick 4,741]

If Crosby put the cheese away and got rid of the Whine, I'd like him more.

[boubabi 4,725]

Other players said the same thing about betgeron and toews during the finals.

 

The best players know how to cheat

 

 

[Kendrick 4,741]

Yeah the fact that Logan Couture is complaining about it is funny, because Crosby is taking a draw and will do anything he can to win it. If the ref doesn't see anything wrong with it then he will continue to do it. Only way to beat someone who does that, do it as well.

 

Not to mention, Logan Couture 3 seasons ago in the playoffs would intentionally trip guys once they had hit him.

[Knight 1,289]

On 6/2/2016 at 9:26 AM, Mr. Power said:

Fucking Pitt is going to win the Cup aren't they? God damnit. Now we'll never hear the end of it, in a playoffs when literally Bonnino/Kessel/Murray have been the Penguins MVP I'm going to have to hear from dumb Canadian hockey fans about how much better Crosby is than Ovechkin even more. Even though Ovie shows up more in the playoffs than Crosby does, the majority of the time. Points wise that is. Crosby still works like a boss don't get me wrong, but he's got to be one of the coldest players ever in pivotal/momentum games. Then he gets one big goal, or one big point at seemingly a random interval, while his team is trending in the right direction/doing well and people don't shut up about him.

 

Bah humbug and even more bah. 

 

@Devise Broooo, I understand your frustration, but a lot of your arguments in this thread are extremely subjective in nature (stuff like "impactful points"). Whether you like to admit it or not, Crosby is one of the best this game has ever seen. None of this subjective bullshit, just check the active leaders in points/game, and also the all-time leaders. 

 

As you have referenced yourself, hockey is a very team oriented game. Put LeBron on the worst team in basketball and they stand to a chance to make the NBA finals. Put Gretzky on the worst team and they won't be that much better. This is partly why I hate debates like Crosby vs. Ovechkin - it's literally useless. Is it Ovechkin's fault that they had never broken through in the playoffs? No. Is Crosby better than Ovechkin because he's led his team to the Cup? No. Both are asinine arguments and clearly an oversimplification.

 

Crosby is my favourite player of all time. I love to watch him. He plays the game unlike anyone I've seen since I started watching hockey. His talent is off the charts. He is also my favourite because I can relate to his style of game play. Growing up I never used to "like" Ovi. I felt he threatened my favourite player's status as the best player in the game. He could do things Crosby could not. I resented that. Over time, though, I realized how much I was missing from not being as receptive to Ovi's talents as I could have been. His style of play I cannot relate to, but he certainly awes me. What he's done in terms of scoring goals is simply remarkable. Could well be the greatest goal scorer of all time. He's certainly in the discussion. 

 

We can all go back and forth picking apart every single player in the league, saying how one is better than the other because of his pre-game ritual blah blah blah. No player is perfect. I understand it must be insufferable to have to listen to those annoying pricks who would take Crosby's dick and shove it down your throat if they could because of their need to feel like they've "won". Ignore them. Most people know it takes a total team effort to win the Stanley Cup. Just enjoy watching these once-in-a-generational talents while we still can.

[Victor 10,937]

14 minutes ago, Knight said:

Put Gretzky on the worst team and they won't be that much better.

yeah jeez, Gretzky on a basketball team? At his age?!

 

 

 

I'm sorry I just came in to see who won the cup and all I got was Crosby bullshit.

[Kendrick 4,741]

We all know Jason Chimera is better than both Ovie and Crosby at hockey.

[FacePuncher 1,343]

10 hours ago, Mr. Power said:

 

And again more misunderstanding.

 

I don't dislike Crosby. He's a very talented player. How many times do I have to say that in my posts? I dislike when his teams do well, specifically when he ranges anywhere from bad to average to good. Why? Because I know, and live around enough fair weather fans who only and always talk about him and just him when anything he is associated does well. Do you get it? I hate the perception that if his team does well it's because "he's the greatest player to play the game." Not only is it wrong, it's an over simplification of how TEAM orientated the game of hockey is. Team Canada wins golds regardless of Sid, and they will continue to. Because you know, Toews, Doughty, Keith, Bergeron, can I keep listing? Team Canada as a TEAM has some of the best hockey players around. Does Crosby help them? Of course. I'm not out here saying I dislike Sid and he doesn't make a difference. He is ONE of the greatest players in the game.

 

Edit - As far as stats go as well you just proved some of my points. He had 11 points in 20 and then went on a tear. He's gone pointless in 8 of his 20 playoff games this season, and has 5 other games where his lone point was a single assist in games that were high scoring enough that his "point total" impact alone was not a huge contributing factor to why his team won. That means, from a purely points/goal perspective his serious contributions happened in 7 playoff games thus far. Which again, I'm not saying he isn't a talented player. The basis of my argument isn't "Sidney Crosby sucks he should never be talked about, all he does is under perform."  It's more "he is just as cold as any other player, and his stats consistently LOOK better because when he's good he can be great. However he is far from the undisputed greatest player to ever play the game that some fair weather Canadian fans make him out to be. The stats showcase that just as well, as despite how great he is, his cold streaks make it so he can be completely out of award contention in certain seasons."

 

Also regarding the Sheary play, Crosby himself admitted he calls plays on every faceoffs. He said he still got like 24 of those called plays wrong. But that doesn't not make it a very impressive play, it was. I guess the reality is I'm calling him overrated not because of him, but because of the perception around him. When he does even remotely good, he doesn't even have to be great, the articles begin. Meanwhile there are tons of other players who on a given night, a given series, contribute far more than he does and they get half the attention. That is bullshit, and it's why I call him overrated. People WANT so badly for him to do well that regardless of how well he actually does he receives all the claim. He's only won a single Stanely Cup, for now. Even if he does win it this year, he hasn't even come CLOSE to the dynasty levels of greatness of names like Gretzky. That isn't meant to be a shot at Crosby, it's just reality. Crosby is one of the top 5 NHL players of his era, and will be a Hall of Famer and rightfully so. But based on all the evidence I've seen, there is no way in hell he deserves the just outright recognition again regardless of his own individual performances, so long as his teams do well, that he gets. 

 im not saying he's the best player in the world, it's like you're arguing against a point that I'm not making, and I don't think anyone else here was arguing that either. In fact, this year, the whole point of the Pens success has been preached that we can score on you with all 4 of our lines, not just when Crosby is on the ice.

 

And I think you're heavily weighting these past one or two seasons with this Crosby streak stuff. Beginning this year he had a very bad first 16 games and another bad streak of 8 games mid season. Other than that he was on fire. Last year he had a few cold streaks, but that was also an incredibly low scoring season! The Art Ross winner didn't even break 90. But before that, just look at the game log data. A small cold streak in 13-14, dominance for the three years before that, a rough start in 09-10 but good after the first 15 games, a very consistent 08-09, a very consistent 07-08, his spectacular 06-07, and a mostly consistent 05-06 rookie campaign. He's a bit streaky, but I think you're blowing this totally out of proportion. Maybe I misunderstand your argument, but you're making it seem like to me at least that Crosby rotates between big cold streak and big hit streak, which just isn't true. Lately he has been more streaky, but those are also his two worst seasons.

 

as far as him getting so much attention, I'm not saying it's fair, because it is true that when the team does well, they usually show him and not the person who has been doing well. But given the hype surrounding his Major junior career, and some of his early accomplishments, I'm sure you can see how that could develop. Plus you have to realize the NHL is also about getting their sport noticed and people interested. Bonino has been great these playoffs, but the casual hockey fan doesn't know Bonino, but they sure as hell know Crosby, Ovechkin, Toews, Doughty, Karlsson, any big name like that, so it stands to reason they would publish more about the superstars, even when they don't deserve it. Also, maybe you're reading more national news I would assume, but a whole lot of Penguins news has focused around Kessel and the HBK line, and the great play of Matt Murray. 

[FacePuncher 1,343]

Also, as a sidenote, maybe it's different in Canada, but most of the hockey fans I know in the US that aren't Pittsburgh fans hate Crosby.

[FacePuncher 1,343]

22 minutes ago, Kendrick said:

We all know Jason Chimera is better than both Ovie and Crosby at hockey.

If Chimera went one on three with Ovi, Crosby, and Gretzy, plus with Brodeur in net, it still wouldn't stop him.

 

Chimera >>>>>>>>>>>>

[Kendrick 4,741]

18 minutes ago, ADwyer87 said:

If Chimera went one on three with Ovi, Crosby, and Gretzy, plus with Brodeur in net, it still wouldn't stop him.

 

Chimera >>>>>>>>>>>>

With Scott Stevens and Bryan Marchment on defense.

[Devise 4,475]

8 hours ago, ADwyer87 said:

If Chimera went one on three with Ovi, Crosby, and Gretzy, plus with Brodeur in net, it still wouldn't stop him.

 

Chimera >>>>>>>>>>>>

 

 

If only. Sadly the reality is Chimmer went on a breakaway something he does often given his old man speed, against an AHL level goalie and his stone hands always bobbles that thing.

[Devise 4,475]

8 hours ago, ADwyer87 said:

Also, as a sidenote, maybe it's different in Canada, but most of the hockey fans I know in the US that aren't Pittsburgh fans hate Crosby.

 

 

It can be different depending on what part of the Country you are in. Cities with solid NHL teams/notable stars are less just pro Crosby all the time. While Alberta has Edmonton and Calgary both have been irrelevant for so long a lot of the casuals here just default to Crosby love. It's frustrating only because these fans don't really know hockey and it's obvious. They are the type of fans who boldly told me after Edmonton got McDavid that they would be winning the Cup, or at least a favourite too this year. I even had one casual Flames fan tell me Hamilton was a great pick up because he is one of the top 5 D in the league.

 

When it comes to international hockey these same fans barely talk about the Toews or Bergerons of the world. It's Crosby mostly with some Price thrown in. Same goes for playoffs when their teams are obviously not in it. 

[Advantage 2,891]

7 minutes ago, Mr. Power said:

 

When it comes to international hockey these same fans barely talk about the Toews or Bergerons of the world. It's Crosby mostly with some Price thrown in. Same goes for playoffs when their teams are obviously not in it. 

They talk about Price? Sound pretty smart to me

[FacePuncher 1,343]

3 hours ago, Mr. Power said:

 

 

It can be different depending on what part of the Country you are in. Cities with solid NHL teams/notable stars are less just pro Crosby all the time. While Alberta has Edmonton and Calgary both have been irrelevant for so long a lot of the casuals here just default to Crosby love. It's frustrating only because these fans don't really know hockey and it's obvious. They are the type of fans who boldly told me after Edmonton got McDavid that they would be winning the Cup, or at least a favourite too this year. I even had one casual Flames fan tell me Hamilton was a great pick up because he is one of the top 5 D in the league.

 

When it comes to international hockey these same fans barely talk about the Toews or Bergerons of the world. It's Crosby mostly with some Price thrown in. Same goes for playoffs when their teams are obviously not in it. 

I would say Hamilton is a good pick up, obviously he's not a top 5 dman though haha

 

And yes, I made quite a bit of money off of Canadians thinking the Oilers were going to the playoffs.

[Kendrick 4,741]

10 hours ago, Mr. Power said:

 

 

If only. Sadly the reality is Chimmer went on a breakaway something he does often given his old man speed, against an AHL level goalie and his stone hands always bobbles that thing.

--------------------------------------> JOKE

---YOUR HEAD---------------------

[Kendrick 4,741]

10 hours ago, Mr. Power said:

 

 

It can be different depending on what part of the Country you are in. Cities with solid NHL teams/notable stars are less just pro Crosby all the time. While Alberta has Edmonton and Calgary both have been irrelevant for so long a lot of the casuals here just default to Crosby love. It's frustrating only because these fans don't really know hockey and it's obvious. They are the type of fans who boldly told me after Edmonton got McDavid that they would be winning the Cup, or at least a favourite too this year. I even had one casual Flames fan tell me Hamilton was a great pick up because he is one of the top 5 D in the league.

 

When it comes to international hockey these same fans barely talk about the Toews or Bergerons of the world. It's Crosby mostly with some Price thrown in. Same goes for playoffs when their teams are obviously not in it. 

I'd take Toews over Crosby 9 times out of ten on leadership alone.

[Smarch 3,150]

Gordie Howe passed?

[sterling 1,997]

Just now, Smarch said:

Gordie Howe passed?

Yes

[Smarch 3,150]

Terrible sports week

[FacePuncher 1,343]

Just.....why 31 teams? That doesn't feel right

[Knight 1,289]

1 hour ago, ADwyer87 said:

Just.....why 31 teams? That doesn't feel right

 

$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$

[Fire Tortorella 2,653]

1 hour ago, ADwyer87 said:

Just.....why 31 teams? That doesn't feel right

 

Give it an additional year or two and it'll be 32.

[TheLastOlympian07 2,388]

well deserved ROY going to Panarin. he was the best rookie this year no doubt about it