STO/DAV: S55 Off-Season

[STZ 5,359]

@jRuutu, @Devise pretty much nailed it, and was with me for most of the thought process of what to do to get a GM Player in NYA.

 

Simply put, the easiest way to get a GM in place is to hire from within. That is a commonly known fact, and we've seen many instances where the easier member was promoted than the most qualified. For that reasoning, Unassisted was going to be my GM Player from the beginning. I had entertained the idea of bringing in DeGrath to NYA, but not as my GM Player. However, instead I decided that it was best for NY to rebuild now, as the timing is ideal.

 

To me that shows some strength in the 2nd Player Project, as I decided to put the Franchise before my own personal goals. At the time, I thought DeGrath would be homeless for the rest of his career, and that was the risk I took, even though I've put nearly 800 TPE into him.

 

I'm not a huge fan of the 2PP, but it's not horrible. It's better than the alternative of having no players.. It's of course going to cause a ripple affect and have an impact on trades, but it isn't the reason I made the moves I did this off-season.

[Fire Tortorella 2,653]

1 minute ago, jRuutu said:

Look at the trade?  Basically made Helsinki winning few cups possible. Velvet was going to Helsinki no matter what appearantly, but instead of just going there, he decided to take Axelsson with him , AND 1st round pick,  in return Calgary gets Jacob, Higgins 2nd player. Nothing wrong with that?

 

 

 

Yeah, CALGARY made a bad trade. They traded multiple good players and a pick for a good player. Helsinki made a good trade, and they still would have made that trade regardless if it was Higgins' own player he was trading away or another members.

[Da Trifecta 1,896]

Just now, jRuutu said:

Look at the trade?  Basically made Helsinki winning few cups possible. Velvet was going to Helsinki no matter what appearantly, but instead of just going there, he decided to take Axelsson with him , AND 1st round pick,  in return Calgary gets Jacob, Higgins 2nd player. Nothing wrong with that?

 

 

 

There was no guarantee to winning said cups. We had lost our first season to a very strong Stockholm team. Mainly due to my play at goalie, but then the next season, (our first cup), we beat Stockholm who had by far the best season in decades. That was one of the biggest challenges any team would have ever had to face. This past season, we still had to face off against Stockholm who was not as good but still one hell of a challenge. We could have easily lost three years in a row. The sim somehow helped us out and we got two cups out of it so far.

[Higgins 3,618]

Someone mentioned users with both players in the finals on opposite teams. Paging Mr. @solas 

 

??Axelsson>>

[jRuutu 2,464]

2 minutes ago, Fire Hakstol said:

 

Yeah, CALGARY made a bad trade. They traded multiple good players and a pick for a good player. Helsinki made a good trade, and they still would have made that trade regardless if it was Higgins' own player he was trading away or another members.

No, that is not a bad trade,  that is an insanely terrible deal.  You can defend that trade all you want, but it would not be possible without Higgins and his 2nd player, you know why? Because in the past the 2nd player would have not existed. Would have just been Higgins and Black Velvet.

[jRuutu 2,464]

4 minutes ago, KGR said:

 

There was no guarantee to winning said cups. We had lost our first season to a very strong Stockholm team. Mainly due to my play at goalie, but then the next season, (our first cup), we beat Stockholm who had by far the best season in decades. That was one of the biggest challenges any team would have ever had to face. This past season, we still had to face off against Stockholm who was not as good but still one hell of a challenge. We could have easily lost three years in a row. The sim somehow helped us out and we got two cups out of it so far.

Not saying it was automatically a cup win or a easy road, but adding Velvet, Theo and the 1st at least jump started the cup run quite nicely. 

[Da Trifecta 1,896]

Just now, jRuutu said:

No, that is not a bad trade,  that is an insanely terrible deal.  You can defend that trade all you want, but it would not be possible without Higgins and his 2nd player, you know why? Because in the past the 2nd player would have not existed. Would have just been Higgins and Black Velvet.

 

The league might not have existed as it currently is either then. We probably would have seen a reset or a huge reduction in teams. The 2nd players have been filling teams in the VHL.

[Fire Tortorella 2,653]

Just now, jRuutu said:

No, that is not a bad trade,  that is an insanely terrible deal.  You can defend that trade all you want, but it would not be possible without Higgins and his 2nd player, you know why? Because in the past the 2nd player would have not existed. Would have just been Higgins and Black Velvet.

 

Your argument is that Jacob the player wouldn't have existed, and therefore the 2nd player is responsible for that bad trade? I'm sorry, but I can't buy that. "Jacob" could just have easily been created by me and then traded.

 

Yes, that deal was insanely bad. But that's a GM-GM problem, not a 2nd player problem.

[Da Trifecta 1,896]

Just now, jRuutu said:

Not saying it was automatically a cup win or a easy road, but adding Velvet, Theo and the 1st at least jump started the cup run quite nicely. 

 

That alone wasn't enough to do so. He had to manage to make trades to bring in Boubabi and then grabbed my goalie. Also some other moves were used to bring in other players. Go look at all Higgins did that off-season.

[jRuutu 2,464]

Just now, KGR said:

 

The league might not have existed as it currently is either then. We probably would have seen a reset or a huge reduction in teams. The 2nd players have been filling teams in the VHL.

I would honestly like to see a four team league more than what we have now.

[jRuutu 2,464]

Just now, Fire Hakstol said:

 

Your argument is that Jacob the player wouldn't have existed, and therefore the 2nd player is responsible for that bad trade? I'm sorry, but I can't buy that. "Jacob" could just have easily been created by me and then traded.

 

Yes, that deal was insanely bad. But that's a GM-GM problem, not a 2nd player problem.

But it was not created by you,  2nd player system allowed trade option like that to be there in the first place.

[Da Trifecta 1,896]

1 minute ago, jRuutu said:

I would honestly like to see a four team league more than what we have now.

 

Honestly a four team league would be complete shit. Some people would barely get any time and it would make members leave. It's one of the main reasons why I am not active in the SHL and my activity turned to shit in GOMHL. People want to be able to show off their players and you can't do that when you are third or fourth string really. The league would restart before we seen a 4 team league.

[jRuutu 2,464]

2 minutes ago, KGR said:

 

That alone wasn't enough to do so. He had to manage to make trades to bring in Boubabi and then grabbed my goalie. Also some other moves were used to bring in other players. Go look at all Higgins did that off-season.

I know they got Quebecs pick to draft Boubabi and propably did similar trades to acquire other key players from the cup team, but still without Velvet and Theo in the team, or even without Theo, road to cup wins would have been harder, how much? No idea, but not easier than with Theo and or Velvet in the team.

[Da Trifecta 1,896]

Just now, jRuutu said:

I know they got Quebecs pick to draft Boubabi and propably did similar trades to acquire other key players from the cup team, but still without Velvet and Theo in the team, or even without Theo, road to cup wins would have been harder, how much? No idea, but not easier than with Theo and or Velvet in the team.

 

To be honest, Higgins would have made other moves for other players and the team would have been just fine.

[jRuutu 2,464]

14 minutes ago, STZ said:

@jRuutu, @Devise pretty much nailed it, and was with me for most of the thought process of what to do to get a GM Player in NYA.

 

Simply put, the easiest way to get a GM in place is to hire from within. That is a commonly known fact, and we've seen many instances where the easier member was promoted than the most qualified. For that reasoning, Unassisted was going to be my GM Player from the beginning. I had entertained the idea of bringing in DeGrath to NYA, but not as my GM Player. However, instead I decided that it was best for NY to rebuild now, as the timing is ideal.

 

To me that shows some strength in the 2nd Player Project, as I decided to put the Franchise before my own personal goals. At the time, I thought DeGrath would be homeless for the rest of his career, and that was the risk I took, even though I've put nearly 800 TPE into him.

 

I'm not a huge fan of the 2PP, but it's not horrible. It's better than the alternative of having no players.. It's of course going to cause a ripple affect and have an impact on trades, but it isn't the reason I made the moves I did this off-season.

I understand that, adding player from inside is the easiest and most simple way to do it, but in the past Degrath would have been that guy? Or at least he would be the one getting retired and the recreate would be the GM player?  Now Degrath is in Davos and more than likely enjoying playoff hockey. In result and in my opinion, as a league VHL is not a better place now.

[jRuutu 2,464]

4 minutes ago, KGR said:

 

To be honest, Higgins would have made other moves for other players and the team would have been just fine.

More than likely, but not too many Velvet/Theo level guys out there. Certainly wont be able to get them anywhere near the same price as from Calgary.

[Da Trifecta 1,896]

1 minute ago, jRuutu said:

I understand that, adding player from inside is the easiest and most simple way to do it, but in the past Degrath would have been that guy? Or at least he would be the one getting retired and the recreate would be the GM player?  Now Degrath is in Davos and more than likely enjoying playoff hockey. In result and in my opinion, as a league VHL is not a better place now.

 

See where you don't think the VHL is a better place, there are multiple others who think that it is.

[jRuutu 2,464]

17 minutes ago, Higgins said:

Someone mentioned users with both players in the finals on opposite teams. Paging Mr. @solas 

 

??Axelsson>>

We laugh now, but in the past two players in different teams would have been punished by suspension and who knows what else.

[jRuutu 2,464]

Just now, KGR said:

 

See where you don't think the VHL is a better place, there are multiple others who think that it is.

That is fine, we cant all like the same things. The place is not the same as it was and that is coming from a user on only his second player.

[Gudnason 607]

31 minutes ago, KGR said:

 

My career length is the same as Jacob's. Same draft class. Once I am gone, he is. Higgins already said he won't be trading me so Jacob therefore remains in Calgary. Check and mate.

 

Key word SUDDENLY

[TheLastOlympian07 2,388]

1 minute ago, jRuutu said:

I understand that, adding player from inside is the easiest and most simple way to do it, but in the past Degrath would have been that guy? Or at least he would be the one getting retired and the recreate would be the GM player?  Now Degrath is in Davos and more than likely enjoying playoff hockey. In result and in my opinion, as a league VHL is not a better place now.

i dont understand your hate for the 2 player system. One of you best forwards Lukas Muller is in fact a 2nd player. its not a perfect system but it is not horrible as you think it is. just because a few trades happened which were lopsided because of a bad goalie market doesnt make it a horrible system like you make it out to be. 

[Phil 5,119]

That's it.

 

I'm recreating my second player now because of this trade.

[jRuutu 2,464]

1 minute ago, TheLastOlympian07 said:

i dont understand your hate for the 2 player system. One of you best forwards Lukas Muller is in fact a 2nd player. its not a perfect system but it is not horrible as you think it is. just because a few trades happened which were lopsided because of a bad goalie market doesnt make it a horrible system like you make it out to be. 

I know, we got few others on their 1st or 2nd players as well. Seeing Solas also in the other team in the finals left me in weird state of mind. Even if all this is fantasy in sim leagues and in VHL, I like to think the team I´m in is a unit, we win together and lose together, but now we got users from the same unit also in the team playing against us?  It´s not the same anymore, nothing is the same anymore.

[Da Trifecta 1,896]

1 minute ago, jRuutu said:

I know, we got few others on their 1st or 2nd players as well. Seeing Solas also in the other team in the finals left me in weird state of mind. Even if all this is fantasy in sim leagues and in VHL, I like to think the team I´m in is a unit, we win together and lose together, but now we got users from the same unit also in the team playing against us?  It´s not the same anymore, nothing is the same anymore.

 

Nothing in life is ever the same as before. Things change and we just have to learn to accept it.

[Devise 4,475]

This thread though, what even in the hell. Somebody who has no idea is going to think this is the craziest blockbuster ever.