STO/DAV: S55 Off-Season

[Kendrick 4,724]

1 hour ago, punkhippie said:

 

Please don't speak out of your ass, to put it harshly. I'm not trying to bring the league down; anyone in my situation would have tanked last season.

I don't think he is really reference that in particular, but he is correct and many feel the same way.

[Fire Tortorella 2,653]

I'm not a fan of the 2nd player system for different reasons but I'm still struggling to follow the logic behind blaming that system on some of these recent trades.

 

2nd player system was created as a means of boosting activity from users, but obviously the only users benefiting from this are the already active people, which aren't the members that needed to be targeted to increase activity. The VHL is at a cross roads between being a PT and welfare based league, as a significant portion of our member base would leave if welfare was significantly reduced, and many of these members contribute to the site in other ways (jobs, BoG, GMs, etc..). There is no good answer other than increasing recruitment levels, which the VHL has never been truly successful at, so the cycle continues.

[Gudnason 607]

Just now, Fire Hakstol said:

I'm not a fan of the 2nd player system for different reasons but I'm still struggling to follow the logic behind blaming that system on some of these recent trades.

 

2nd player system was created as a means of boosting activity from users, but obviously the only users benefiting from this are the already active people, which aren't the members that needed to be targeted to increase activity. The VHL is at a cross roads between being a PT and welfare based league, as a significant portion of our member base would leave if welfare was significantly reduced, and many of these members contribute to the site in other ways (jobs, BoG, GMs, etc..). There is no good answer other than increasing recruitment levels, which the VHL has never been truly successful at, so the cycle continues.

 

I agree with the wise one. Our player base is ridiculously small when we stick our head out of the fish bowl and look at other leagues.

[jRuutu 2,303]

4 minutes ago, boubabi said:

The VHL is running because of a small group of individual. 2nd player is here to reward those players. Others are meant to ''ride the wave''.

 

Lets be honest, helsinki didn't won because of the 2nd player system as all player in our team were created as 1st players (except darryl dortch who was a 2nd player)

 

2nd player will eventually bring more BS move like this, because people are now in a position to be a dick to other people's (especially gms)

 

The Helsinki-Calgary trade had quite heavy 2nd player flavor to it since at least Higgins and his players were involved. Right or wrong, that trade played massive part in your cup wins.

 

I can agree with the last line,  will get worse before it gets better.

 

[jRuutu 2,303]

5 minutes ago, Tyler said:

 

Depends on how you define "taking advantage of" someone

For example the Calgary-Helsinki deal from s52 off-season.

[boubabi 4,725]

black velvet was an ufa and shouldn't even be considered in that trade. He would have signed in helsinki anyway. The only thing that is to blame is the people who decided the 2nd player rules not thinking about that loophole (of changing gms player at your will) NYA and RIG used it, Higgins too. Blame the game, not the player 

[TheLastOlympian07 2,388]

3 minutes ago, boubabi said:

black velvet was an ufa and shouldn't even be considered in that trade. He would have signed in helsinki anyway. The only thing that is to blame is the people who decided the 2nd player rules not thinking about that loophole (of changing gms player at your will) NYA and RIG used it, Higgins too. Blame the game, not the player 

Velvet could have never went to Helsinki though because Jacob was the GM player, and you cant join your other player unless you were drafted there if i remember the rules correctly from when they first came out. which im also pretty sure higgins posted

[boubabi 4,725]

that's why he was added to the trade, just for the sake of the loophole 

[Gudnason 607]

Just now, boubabi said:

that's why he was added to the trade, just for the sake of the loophole 

 

Also thought sign and trades weren't allowed, otherwise Rudi Ying could very well have been on Cologne...  

[boubabi 4,725]

sign and trades are more than allowed

[jRuutu 2,303]

3 minutes ago, Fire Hakstol said:

I'm not a fan of the 2nd player system for different reasons but I'm still struggling to follow the logic behind blaming that system on some of these recent trades.

 

2nd player system was created as a means of boosting activity from users, but obviously the only users benefiting from this are the already active people, which aren't the members that needed to be targeted to increase activity. The VHL is at a cross roads between being a PT and welfare based league, as a significant portion of our member base would leave if welfare was significantly reduced, and many of these members contribute to the site in other ways (jobs, BoG, GMs, etc..). There is no good answer other than increasing recruitment levels, which the VHL has never been truly successful at, so the cycle continues.

The 2nd player system allows users to have even more power with everything. Think about being a GM on a rebuilding team, but also having solid 2nd player in a upcoming team that is close to realistically winning an cup? Just think about that, what kind of options and temptations that opens up? 

 

I would like to give an example of the activity boosting that the 2nd player brought and who is benefitting from it, we got users who have 1st or 2nd players in Quebec, but they rarely post in the LR. Is it just the summer or what is going on? Post counts have been fairly low if you look the whole season for while now. Could it be that people find it hard to be active in LR`s of two different teams? I can of course only speak for myself, but LR activity is big part of VHL experience for me, I understand that you cant always be active and different users do the whole sim league thing differently, but I think 2nd player system has failed badly if increasing activity was the goal.

[hedgehog337 3,480]

2 minutes ago, jRuutu said:

we got users who have 1st or 2nd players in Quebec, but they rarely post in the LR.

 

I never was active in LR unless it's my team btw.

[Gudnason 607]

6 minutes ago, boubabi said:

sign and trades are more than allowed

 

Not to circumvent the two-player FA rule though, according to the rule book.

[Higgins 3,617]

49 minutes ago, jRuutu said:

Some kind of fine/suspension/Draft pick loss punishment is in place for sure

 

In aa thread where I just dropped like 8 haha reactions this was the king daddy topper!

 

I should be fined/suspended for the HSK/CGY trade? Jacob is still on Calgary I think this is punishment enough for me, no?

[jRuutu 2,303]

Just now, hedgehog337 said:

 

I never was active in LR unless it's my team btw.

I get that and it´s fair,  ´own´ team comes first!

 

Sometimes I do wonder what the other LR´s look like that have 1st/2nd players who play there, but also in some other team. Is it more active than in the past with similar active player amounts or not?

[Devise 4,475]

Just now, Higgins said:

 

In aa thread where I just dropped like 8 haha reactions this was the king daddy topper!

 

I should be fined/suspended for the HSK/CGY trade? Jacob is still on Calgary I think this is punishment enough for me, no?

 

Apparently you being a GM and having a player on another team somehow makes the experience of Jacob irrelevant. Since you then have the "freedom" to do that. @jRuutu most try to actually get their players on competitive teams. Like both of them. We had a few examples of players heading into the finals of both teams recently, so then the member in question is guaranteed a Cup win. It's not like people are intentionally screwing over other teams with their 2nd player in an effort to somehow change the competitive landscape.

 

 

[Gudnason 607]

3 minutes ago, Higgins said:

 

In aa thread where I just dropped like 8 haha reactions this was the king daddy topper!

 

I should be fined/suspended for the HSK/CGY trade? Jacob is still on Calgary I think this is punishment enough for me, no?

 

So what the hell is happening to Jack Shephard

[Gudnason 607]

1 minute ago, Devise said:

 

Apparently you being a GM and having a player on another team somehow makes the experience of Jacob irrelevant. Since you then have the "freedom" to do that. @jRuutu most try to actually get their players on competitive teams. Like both of them. We had a few examples of players heading into the finals of both teams recently, so then the member in question is guaranteed a Cup win. It's not like people are intentionally screwing over other teams with their 2nd player in an effort to somehow change the competitive landscape.

 

 

 

Yeah that, Higgins could probably care less about his "experience" on Calgary as Jacob. It's just an add-on for him, as he has other roles of blue team, HSK GM, and Black Velvet. He could probably care less if Jacob played out his career in Cologne, until Astrid Moon suddenly retired, then he'd offer me like four 1sts for him probably.

[jRuutu 2,303]

1 minute ago, Higgins said:

 

In aa thread where I just dropped like 8 haha reactions this was the king daddy topper!

 

I should be fined/suspended for the HSK/CGY trade? Jacob is still on Calgary I think this is punishment enough for me, no?

Not too bad of a punishment, at least looking at it now. Starting G in a team that is quite close to spot in the playoffs?

 

Should absolutely be able to throw something at GMs and teams who manage to pull something like the Calgary/Helsinki deal showed. Draft pick penalty of some kind, Helsinki loses first round pick of season X  for example

[Fire Tortorella 2,653]

2 minutes ago, jRuutu said:

Not too bad of a punishment, at least looking at it now. Starting G in a team that is quite close to spot in the playoffs?

 

Should absolutely be able to throw something at GMs and teams who manage to pull something like the Calgary/Helsinki deal showed. Draft pick penalty of some kind, Helsinki loses first round pick of season X  for example

 

What did Helsinki or Higgins do wrong? I'm really scratching my head here. Is the argument that Higgins agreed on a trade hurting his player and helping his team and not caring about Jacob? Because it's not like Jacob isn't updating.  Ok scratch that since he hasn't updated since June but I'm assuming he's still at least been collecting welfare.

[Da Trifecta 1,896]

5 minutes ago, punkhippie said:

 

Yeah that, Higgins could probably care less about his "experience" on Calgary as Jacob. It's just an add-on for him, as he has other roles of blue team, HSK GM, and Black Velvet. He could probably care less if Jacob played out his career in Cologne, until Astrid Moon suddenly retired, then he'd offer me like four 1sts for him probably.

 

My career length is the same as Jacob's. Same draft class. Once I am gone, he is. Higgins already said he won't be trading me so Jacob therefore remains in Calgary. Check and mate.

[boubabi 4,725]

higgins just don't update often

[jRuutu 2,303]

4 minutes ago, Devise said:

 

Apparently you being a GM and having a player on another team somehow makes the experience of Jacob irrelevant. Since you then have the "freedom" to do that. @jRuutu most try to actually get their players on competitive teams. Like both of them. We had a few examples of players heading into the finals of both teams recently, so then the member in question is guaranteed a Cup win. It's not like people are intentionally screwing over other teams with their 2nd player in an effort to somehow change the competitive landscape.

 

 

Why even add the 2nd player system if everybody will try to go the top anyways? How is that helping the league in any way,  if User A can have player in both of the final teams? Everybody wants to win, if I offer you change to win or lose, you will more than likely pick winning. How that helps the league?  If the 2nd player projects goal is to increase the activity around the league and get as many teams to be competitive as possible,  how the league benefits from User A, B, C etc from trying to be in the winning team with not only one player, but now with two?! The fact that some users managed to get both of their players to finals shows that the system is terrible.

[Da Trifecta 1,896]

1 minute ago, jRuutu said:

Why even add the 2nd player system if everybody will try to go the top anyways? How is that helping the league in any way,  if User A can have player in both of the final teams? Everybody wants to win, if I offer you change to win or lose, you will more than likely pick winning. How that helps the league?  If the 2nd player projects goal is to increase the activity around the league and get as many teams to be competitive as possible,  how the league benefits from User A, B, C etc from trying to be in the winning team with not only one player, but now with two?! The fact that some users managed to get both of their players to finals shows that the system is terrible.

 

Sometimes it's not always the player that makes the decision. Sometimes a GM makes it by trading for the player and therefore they are on a competing team thanks to a GM. You have to think about all possible scenarios when talking about the 2nd player system.

[jRuutu 2,303]

6 minutes ago, Fire Hakstol said:

 

What did Helsinki or Higgins do wrong? I'm really scratching my head here. Is the argument that Higgins agreed on a trade hurting his player and helping his team and not caring about Jacob? Because it's not like Jacob isn't updating.  Ok scratch that since he hasn't updated since June but I'm assuming he's still at least been collecting welfare.

Look at the trade?  Basically made Helsinki winning few cups possible. Velvet was going to Helsinki no matter what appearantly, but instead of just going there, he decided to take Axelsson with him , AND 1st round pick,  in return Calgary gets Jacob, Higgins 2nd player. Nothing wrong with that?