New Vasteras Logo

[CowboyinAmerica 2,889]

1 hour ago, Bushito said:

There is no reason not to move them, I polled the draftees and everyone said would rather play in Vasteras or will only stay long term if it's Vasteras. I will make a formal proposal though and argue my points. But yeah I've been saying they are moving and have told blue team members I wanted it changed for this season and this is the first I've heard it's unlikely. I do have my hopes up and will just fight until it happens.

 

1 hour ago, Beketov said:

 

According to @Devise you were told in the Discord specifically that the team is not moving back. You are the GM but that does not mean you get to simply decide when the team is moving. The procedure has always been, and will always be, that the blue team must be notified and put any team moves to a vote before they are allowed to go through. We will consider any formal proposal you put forth but you aren't simply changing a VHL team on your own accord because of an internal team poll.

 

Let's make it external then. I would much prefer to play for Vasteras, and in fact, that would be the only team I would actively consider leaving in free agency for. Furthermore, I'm on the record as saying the only way I'd GM is if I were allowed to take over Stockholm and move them back. I like the idea of trying to change the history of not winning, and I like having a team with some personality and that riles up feelings as compared to Generic European City #5.

[boubabi 4,725]

3 minutes ago, Tyler said:

Vasteras

-cool city name

-cool logo

-cool team name

 

Stockholm

-sounds stupid

-bad logo

-bad team name

I like your cred

[Tyler 885]

2 minutes ago, boubabi said:

I like your cred

 

thank u i try

[Devise 4,475]

1 minute ago, Tyler said:

Vasteras

-cool city name

-cool logo

-cool team name

 

Vasteras

-cool city name, okay sure fine. Not the biggest hockey city in the Country, Stockholm probably a bigger name and I'd venture to say if you asked swedes who'd they rather see it's probably Stockholm since you know Vasteras has a hockey team there already...which brings me too..

-cool logo () That was the first logo we used for Vasteras in this league. Funny right? It's also a real logo logo a fucking team name that already exists in Vasteras called the Vasteras iron eagles. How low rent can you get? You can't even come up with and use your own team name or logo? Oh but we changed the logo, so what? It's still the same god damn team. What's next let's move New York to Rochester and call them the Rochster Americans. Originality ftw! 

-cool team name, oh wait I just covered that when I mentioned how stupid it is that we used to use the same logo for Vasteras, so is it that we shouldn't just use their exact city and team name. It's one thing to take Americans or even Iron Eagles at face value and use it as your team. But to use it with the exact same city name? It's just lazy. 

[CowboyinAmerica 2,889]

Just now, Devise said:

 

 

-cool team name, oh wait I just covered that when I mentioned how stupid it is that we used to use the same logo for Vasteras, so is it that we shouldn't just use their exact city and team name. It's one thing to take Americans or even Iron Eagles at face value and use it as your team. But to use it with the exact same city name? It's just lazy. 

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_York_Americans

 

I demand a name change then.

[Kendrick 4,741]

9 minutes ago, Devise said:

 

I don't know the full details, but at a certain point I started to realize the  was actually just code for FuckPensFan. 

That and because he had some weird fascination with the actual team. Oh...you guys may not have known its an actual team? Yeah it is, and a pretty shitty one at that. PensFan was so obsessed with it that he made it a thing here. It's not a thing anymore and for good reason. Also why would we have all these original teams and then have a real team that sucks in real life and sucked in the VHL. I wouldn't have signed in Stockholm if it was Vasteras. Also we got to phase out of that whole PensFan era (Greg and Edgar both left as well and they were his friends).

[Devise 4,475]

Just now, CowboyinAmerica said:

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_York_Americans

 

I demand a name change then.

 

Not active since 1942. Several other sports teams currently active have no name of the Americans. Rangers, Islanders, Nets, Knicks, Jets....Giants. We took legacy and brought it back. Vasteras is a team, Pensfan named it after that fucking team because he has pictures of himself going there. It's low rent, 1999 circa create a wrestler levels of terribad. Take your "fantasy shit" and get out of here. We have a very professional looking league, that is pretty undisputed. The Stockholm Vikings and the majority of our logo's represent that. 

[Kendrick 4,741]

Oh yes the great triple post because the board is fucked

[CowboyinAmerica 2,889]

I just like the irony of bemoaning the lack of rivalries in the VHL on one hand, then rejecting something that would fix exactly that (with history no less!) because of personal feelings.

Edited October 10, 2017 by CowboyinAmerica

[Tyler 885]

Just now, Devise said:

 

Vasteras

-cool city name, okay sure fine. Not the biggest hockey city in the Country, Stockholm probably a bigger name and I'd venture to say if you asked swedes who'd they rather see it's probably Stockholm since you know Vasteras has a hockey team there already...which brings me too..

-cool logo () That was the first logo we used for Vasteras in this league. Funny right? It's also a real logo logo a fucking team name that already exists in Vasteras called the Vasteras iron eagles. How low rent can you get? You can't even come up with and use your own team name or logo? Oh but we changed the logo, so what? It's still the same god damn team. What's next let's move New York to Rochester and call them the Rochster Americans. Originality ftw! 

-cool team name, oh wait I just covered that when I mentioned how stupid it is that we used to use the same logo for Vasteras, so is it that we shouldn't just use their exact city and team name. It's one thing to take Americans or even Iron Eagles at face value and use it as your team. But to use it with the exact same city name? It's just lazy. 

 

Who cares what real Swedes would think lol. I'm sure if you asked real Canadians they'd prefer a team not in Calgary since there's already an NHL team there with a red colour scheme. And your NYA point doesn't hold up either since... the AHL team is literally the New York (rochester) Americans.... not to mention there used to be an NHL team called the New York Americans.

 

we changed the logo when I took over in S21 and moved them from Madrid. That logo you are showing is from when I first joined the league in like 2008 lol. And the team is not called the Vasteras Iron Eagles it's VIK Västerås HK so unless I'm misunderstanding something it's an original team.... The Vasteras team wasn't even called Iron Eagles iirc in its original VHL run

 

It seems as if you're lazing over the middle part of the teams history when I was GM. We changed everything under the rules so that it was original so the league couldn't appear as amateur hour because there was a rule in place by someone that everything, logo's names etc.. had to be 100 percent original art work.

[Tyler 885]

12 minutes ago, Kendrick said:

That and because he had some weird fascination with the actual team. Oh...you guys may not have known its an actual team? Yeah it is, and a pretty shitty one at that. PensFan was so obsessed with it that he made it a thing here. It's not a thing anymore and for good reason. Also why would we have all these original teams and then have a real team that sucks in real life and sucked in the VHL. I wouldn't have signed in Stockholm if it was Vasteras. Also we got to phase out of that whole PensFan era (Greg and Edgar both left as well and they were his friends).

 

The Vasteras franchise (in so much as we can call it that lol) has nothing to do with Pensfan. He is so far down the list on people I think of when I think of that team.

[Tyler 885]

 

If you can find a real team using this logo and jersey concept then you have a valid point if not then you're arguing based on falty info @Devise

[Corco 1,237]

I don't see the big deal in having small-town teams; this is literally a roleplaying sports fantasy game we are playing, it's not like we are a bunch of real-life executives deciding where to put our teams (not that anybody said that but still). Smaller-town teams would never happen in the real life big leagues (in North America at least, I know Europe has some smaller-town teams for soccer/hockey/etc.), but they can happen here since this website is a fantasy league. I'm not explicitly saying to bring Västerås back (but I definitely would be on board if they did), but I am saying that being a lesser-known location shouldn't be a huge factor in determining where our teams are. Personally, I like the idea of playing for a small-town underdog team going up against the big-city team, such as New York or Toronto. 

 

 

Also, maybe make a public league-wide poll just to see how many people would actually be on board with bringing the team back?

[Devise 4,475]

3 minutes ago, CowboyinAmerica said:

I just like the irony of bemoaning the lack of rivalries in the VHL on one hand, then rejecting something that would fix exactly that (with history no less!) because of personal feelings.

 

Why do they have to be Vasteras to be a rivalry? Also, there is nothing personal for me. I always thought it was stupid that Pensfan got to name his own team just because. Whatever history or attachment various members have with the meme is their own history. But I have my own feelings on how I'd like to see teams laid out, and to me I've always liked how one of our bigger attractions was the Europe vs NA thing, and how diverse the teams are. To me it helps better reflect the game than just NA teams. But even still we don't have a Russian team, which is criminal. And Vasteras just falls to me in a category of, if we are going to have a Swedesh team, which we should, why that city, with the history associated with that franchise, with the member associated and the reasoning behind the name, then the meme effect on top of it. 

 

Also @Tyler your Calgary and New York examples aren't completely valid. These cities are considered hockey mechas of their respective areas. I'ts not like one member sast down and went, "well of course we need a team in Calgary because I say so." Where as Vasteras always felt more like that to me, multiple franchises got relocated over the course of league history, but Vasteras was the one that had that fanclub, led by Pensfan campaigning for it to be moved back there again and again. Moving teams to cities like Toronto or New York or Chicago (we don't have one there) are fine. Those places have legacy in the game, and work. That doesn't mean those franchises have to stay there.

 

But Vasteras to me feels like if I'd advocate to move the Wranglers to Red Deer just because. Red Deer has a hockey team, minor league, and it's a small city population of about 100K, similar to Vasteras. There are far better hockey cities in this province, Calgary and Edmonton are both good choices. I just don't see the appeal of random cities just because. It's fine that some do, but I don't really see how that is a solid argument for the foundation of a relocation, especially a relocation in both name and logo. It's not even talk of relocating somewhere new or presenting something new on the table either. People just want to go back because they like that. To me that number would have to be more than the players on the team/a few members in the league. Even then, just seems like a weak argument. There is nothing wrong with the Stockholm Vikings, their look, their city, their logo, and their colors. 

[Tyler 885]

2 minutes ago, Corco said:

I don't see the big deal in having small-town teams; this is literally a roleplaying sports fantasy game we are playing, it's not like we are a bunch of real-life executives deciding where to put our teams (not that anybody said that but still). Smaller-town teams would never happen in the real life big leagues (in North America at least, I know Europe has some smaller-town teams for soccer/hockey/etc.), but they can happen here since this website is a fantasy league. I'm not explicitly saying to bring Västerås back (but I definitely would be on board if they did), but I am saying that being a lesser-known location shouldn't be a huge factor in determining where our teams are. Personally, I like the idea of playing for a small-town underdog team going up against the big-city team, such as New York or Toronto. 

 

 

Also, maybe make a public league-wide poll just to see how many people would actually be on board with bringing the team back?

 

Well they only put NFL teams in the biggest cities which explains why Green Bay has a team with 100 thousand people

[Corco 1,237]

1 minute ago, Tyler said:

 

Well they only put NFL teams in the biggest cities which explains why Green Bay has a team with 100 thousand people

Yes, but if the Packers has never existed and were trying to apply to enter the league as an expansion team now, they would almost certainly be shot down immediately.

[Tyler 885]

2 minutes ago, Devise said:

 

Why do they have to be Vasteras to be a rivalry? Also, there is nothing personal for me. I always thought it was stupid that Pensfan got to name his own team just because. Whatever history or attachment various members have with the meme is their own history. But I have my own feelings on how I'd like to see teams laid out, and to me I've always liked how one of our bigger attractions was the Europe vs NA thing, and how diverse the teams are. To me it helps better reflect the game than just NA teams. But even still we don't have a Russian team, which is criminal. And Vasteras just falls to me in a category of, if we are going to have a Swedesh team, which we should, why that city, with the history associated with that franchise, with the member associated and the reasoning behind the name, then the meme effect on top of it. 

 

Also @Tyler your Calgary and New York examples aren't completely valid. These cities are considered hockey mechas of their respective areas. I'ts not like one member sast down and went, "well of course we need a team in Calgary because I say so." Where as Vasteras always felt more like that to me, multiple franchises got relocated over the course of league history, but Vasteras was the one that had that fanclub, led by Pensfan campaigning for it to be moved back there again and again. Moving teams to cities like Toronto or New York or Chicago (we don't have one there) are fine. Those places have legacy in the game, and work. That doesn't mean those franchises have to stay there.

 

But Vasteras to me feels like if I'd advocate to move the Wranglers to Red Deer just because. Red Deer has a hockey team, minor league, and it's a small city population of about 100K, similar to Vasteras. There are far better hockey cities in this province, Calgary and Edmonton are both good choices. I just don't see the appeal of random cities just because. It's fine that some do, but I don't really see how that is a solid argument for the foundation of a relocation, especially a relocation in both name and logo. It's not even talk of relocating somewhere new or presenting something new on the table either. People just want to go back because they like that. To me that number would have to be more than the players on the team/a few members in the league. Even then, just seems like a weak argument. There is nothing wrong with the Stockholm Vikings, their look, their city, their logo, and their colors. 

 

It's not just one member though is it? There's like 4 people arguing with you in this thread lol.
 

To me, it feels as if you guys made up your own minds and have worked backwards from there to try and find arguments against moving the team back to Vasteras. You don't want the team there for personal reasons and have worked backwards to try and find "legitimate" (which aren't so legitimate since your logo argument was totally fabricated but rather they are arguments that don't appear to be based on nothing but personal bias) reasons why not to move the team there.

[Tyler 885]

3 minutes ago, Corco said:

Yes, but if the Packers has never existed and were trying to apply to enter the league as an expansion team now, they would almost certainly be shot down immediately.

 

Right and like the Packers Vasteras only functions because of its history and its place in the leagues history.

[Kendrick 4,741]

15 minutes ago, Tyler said:

 

The Vasteras franchise (in so much as we can call it that lol) has nothing to do with Pensfan. He is so far down the list on people I think of when I think of that team.

In relation to the VHL though it does. The only reason it's here is because of him.

[Tyler 885]

and FYI @Devise my points about Calgary was in response to you saying "there's already a team in Vasteras". There's already a Calgary team with a white colour scheme and there's already a New York state team called the Americans and indeed a baseball team called the New York Yankees which is basically the same thing lol

Edited October 10, 2017 by Tyler

[Devise 4,475]

1 minute ago, Tyler said:

 

Well they only put NFL teams in the biggest cities which explains why Green Bay has a team with 100 thousand people

 

There are also what 30 teams in the NFL? We have 10 teams total. Total. Further limiting us is that 5 of our teams have to represent the entirety of North America, and 5 have to represent the entirety of Europe.  Sorry that in those restrictions, some of us feel that it's more important to have a nice healthy representation of some of the more major hockey destinations around the world. To some of us, I know for me this is how it is, that is the attraction. I'd sooner move Stockholm to Russia before back to Vasteras. 

 

It's fine @Corco that some people want that narrative underdog experience. Some of us just don't. I'm not saying I don't also like teams that are even more original than say the Americans or the Legion. Both being in cities that have hockey teams. But I think a Seattle reflects that well, as does a Quebec a place that used to have a hockey team is a mecha and doesn't. To me when you sit down and think relocate I just see so many other fitting options even in the country of Sweden than Vasteras. Gothenburg or Malmo great options. 

 

The reasons that people want/support Vasteras have always seemed childish to me. it's a meme or whatever attachment you have to it, haha, funny? Always was just whatever to me. Never understood the fascination with it, and probably never will. It's a low rent hockey city that Pensfan got to be named after a team he liked and then was adjusted because some people liked the joke, or whatever.  

[Tyler 885]

Just now, Kendrick said:

In relation to the VHL though it does. The only reason it's here is because of him.

 

I disagree 100 percent. There's a few people still active who have a memory of or relations to Vasteras.

[solas 1,951]

Maybe this is because I joined the league after the original team had already moved to Madrid, but I've never really understood equating the Vasteras Iron Eagles with the real-life Vasteras hockey team.  Also for most of the time I've been here, Pensfan hasn't been active so I don't associate the team with him either. 

 

Vasteras was (and still is) my favorite team I've ever played on in the VHL, mainly because there was a sort of "us vs. the world" thing, trying to turn the team around.  I can't say I've really felt that with other team.  Vasteras feels like it had an identity.  To me that's more interesting than just going to a team that just goes through the cycle of rebuilding and competing with different groups of members every 5-6 seasons, because it sometimes feels like there aren't any unique teams here.

 

I can understand why people wouldn't want to move the team back to Vasteras and would prefer Stockholm.  A lot of it comes down to personal preference.  But I could also say that I see no reason why the team should have been moved to Stockholm in the first place.

 

(Side note: I'm pretty sure the font in the OP image is a condensed version of Copperplate Gothic, if that's what you were talking about @boubabi)

Edited October 10, 2017 by solas

[Tyler 885]

1 minute ago, Devise said:

 

There are also what 30 teams in the NFL? We have 10 teams total. Total. Further limiting us is that 5 of our teams have to represent the entirety of North America, and 5 have to represent the entirety of Europe.  Sorry that in those restrictions, some of us feel that it's more important to have a nice healthy representation of some of the more major hockey destinations around the world. To some of us, I know for me this is how it is, that is the attraction. I'd sooner move Stockholm to Russia before back to Vasteras. 

 

It's fine @Corco that some people want that narrative underdog experience. Some of us just don't. I'm not saying I don't also like teams that are even more original than say the Americans or the Legion. Both being in cities that have hockey teams. But I think a Seattle reflects that well, as does a Quebec a place that used to have a hockey team is a mecha and doesn't. To me when you sit down and think relocate I just see so many other fitting options even in the country of Sweden than Vasteras. Gothenburg or Malmo great options. 

 

The reasons that people want/support Vasteras have always seemed childish to me. it's a meme or whatever attachment you have to it, haha, funny? Always was just whatever to me. Never understood the fascination with it, and probably never will. It's a low rent hockey city that Pensfan got to be named after a team he liked and then was adjusted because some people liked the joke, or whatever.  

 

And the NFL is a real league with real financial needs so it actually matters having a team in places that can handle it.

 

this is a sim league made up of the community. In this case if enough people in the community want the team to move it shouldn't be held up by a blue team biased against the move.

[diamond_ace 3,112]

Easy solution: see which option more people prefer across the league. Make a poll, but make sure it's advertised across the boards so as to maximize people casting a vote.

Vasteras fans, if you think most people want to go back, that's your chance to prove it.

Stockholm fans, if you think a larger and better known destination is the clear winner, then the vote should reflect that.

 

Both sides should be on board this idea, if you each truly believe what you preach.