diamond_ace 3,112 Posted December 31, 2021 Share Posted December 31, 2021 As you are all aware, @ajwllmsn was caught updating for other members, and for the league side of things, he has received his punishment already. What remained to be seen was how this would be handled from the perspective of the VHLM, as he was the GM of the Las Vegas Aces. He had been suspended from the role until the final ruling was in place. @McWolf and I were largely torn on this - on one hand, this was absolutely a large enough infraction to be considered fire worthy, but outside of this particular incident, AJ was a bright spot among the new members of the league. Basically he did many things right, but one thing very wrong, and so it fell to us to implement a punishment befitting the crime. After talking with all the directly affected parties per our final decision: AJ is fired from the role of GM of Vegas. However, he is certainly among the pool of applicants for future openings, and should he learn from this, it'll likely just be a bump in the road for him in the long term. We've seen firsthand how little a punishment can affect a good member in the long run *cough @Beketov cough* and so we suspect this will not hinder him going forward. In fact, he's landed somewhat on his feet already... As it's close to playoffs, which is always an awkward time for a new GM to start in a role, and the current AGM of Vegas is a veteran member who is familiar with Vegas' setup at the moment and the inner workings of the VHLM: @MubbleFubbles will be taking over the role. (Don't worry those of you who might be looking for a job with apps, there will be one coming up soon, unrelated to this post). This leaves the AGM position open, which will go to AJ. Reminder that AGM is not a job, does not inherently come with job pay, and is in no way a guarantee to future promotions or the like, but this does put AJ among promising candidates heading forward. Obviously when a whole body of work is taken into account for future hires, this incident will be a negative for him and he's not likely to be the absolute first candidate on the page for the immediate next job, but he is definitely still on the list. Who knows, it may even be a future iteration of Vegas in particular, given the M's historical turnover rate. *No, we do not expect everyone will be pleased with this ruling, but there was a wide range of opinions and that would be impossible. Instead we focused primarily on what McWolf and I in particular thought, obviously with some input from blues/mods/etc as pertained to the larger league ruling, and we were both somewhat in the middle. This seemed fair - he loses the job, a player of his earn rate loses the immediate job TPE going forward and will have to do a little more each week until earning his way back into a spot, but he's not blackballed or anything of that nature. If he's learned, it's ultimately not much in the long run, but it's hefty enough in the short run. diacope, JardyB10, AJW and 10 others 9 2 1 1 Link to comment https://vhlforum.com/topic/113986-the-resolution-of-the-vegas-situation/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
Commissioner Beketov 9,026 Posted December 31, 2021 Commissioner Share Posted December 31, 2021 22 minutes ago, diamond_ace said: We've seen firsthand how little a punishment can affect a good member in the long run *cough @Beketov cough* AJ for blue in 2031 then? But yes, a punishment is only as bad as people make it. I received the longest TPE ban in league history and still came back; the key is sticking around long enough that the majority of people don’t know about it. Just don’t let a punishment define you. N0HBDY, frescoelmo, AJW and 4 others 3 1 3 Link to comment https://vhlforum.com/topic/113986-the-resolution-of-the-vegas-situation/#findComment-898960 Share on other sites More sharing options...
JB123 728 Posted December 31, 2021 Share Posted December 31, 2021 Keep going AJ, I’m sure this is tough but you can come back from it. AJW 1 Link to comment https://vhlforum.com/topic/113986-the-resolution-of-the-vegas-situation/#findComment-898963 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shindigs 1,771 Posted December 31, 2021 Share Posted December 31, 2021 35 minutes ago, Beketov said: AJ for blue in 2031 then? But yes, a punishment is only as bad as people make it. I received the longest TPE ban in league history and still came back; the key is sticking around long enough that the majority of people don’t know about it. Just don’t let a punishment define you. Was the punishment by any chance connected to mysterious disappearances of blues? As someone who really likes AJ I hope he bounces back from this sooner rather than later. He's been great to me as a new member and the LV LR experience has been one of the biggest bright spots of my time in the league so far. bigAL and AJW 1 1 Link to comment https://vhlforum.com/topic/113986-the-resolution-of-the-vegas-situation/#findComment-898969 Share on other sites More sharing options...
mediocrepony 1,216 Posted December 31, 2021 Share Posted December 31, 2021 48 minutes ago, Beketov said: AJ for blue in 2031 then? But yes, a punishment is only as bad as people make it. I received the longest TPE ban in league history and still came back; the key is sticking around long enough that the majority of people don’t know about it. Just don’t let a punishment define you. what did you do? Link to comment https://vhlforum.com/topic/113986-the-resolution-of-the-vegas-situation/#findComment-898970 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spartan 4,405 Posted December 31, 2021 Share Posted December 31, 2021 I'll admit I'm a little disappointed in the outcome, and that I feel the punishment was levied based on the rule that was broken and not the severity of the infraction. I understand that being in a GM job means you're getting to a higher standard though, so I'll accept it as fair and hope this is the precedent moving forward. Congrats to Bubbles for getting bumped up to GM! He definitely would have been my top choice to move into the role and I'm glad AJ gets to stick around as the team's AGM. Both of them have created a great environment in LVA and I'm thrilled they get to keep it going together, albeit in different roles. AJ better get Vegas when he's back to being the top candidate for an M job in the future AJW and MubbleFubbles 1 1 Link to comment https://vhlforum.com/topic/113986-the-resolution-of-the-vegas-situation/#findComment-898973 Share on other sites More sharing options...
rory 1,916 Posted December 31, 2021 Share Posted December 31, 2021 another L for the vhlm commish team v.2 and Nykonax 1 1 Link to comment https://vhlforum.com/topic/113986-the-resolution-of-the-vegas-situation/#findComment-898977 Share on other sites More sharing options...
AJW 2,157 Posted December 31, 2021 Share Posted December 31, 2021 (edited) 3 minutes ago, rory said: another L for the vhlm commish team Rory this just means I can focus more on my player on your team Edited December 31, 2021 by ajwllmsn rory and diacope 1 1 Link to comment https://vhlforum.com/topic/113986-the-resolution-of-the-vegas-situation/#findComment-898979 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arce 755 Posted December 31, 2021 Share Posted December 31, 2021 I agree there must be consequences and people with a GM role are held to that higher standard. If AJ was making multiple accounts, the firing would absolutely be warranted. Meanwhile updating for other people is against the rules, I think it is definitely a different situation than someone who created multi accounts, since these are legit users. I think AJ should have been able to maintain his job. But I do get the message the commissioners are trying to send. Now that it’s all said and done for now, I hope everyone is able to move forward regardless of how they feel about the ruling. AJW and diacope 1 1 Link to comment https://vhlforum.com/topic/113986-the-resolution-of-the-vegas-situation/#findComment-898981 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dom 1,445 Posted December 31, 2021 Share Posted December 31, 2021 Hey @ajwllmsn this is not the end. I’m sure we’ll see you rise back. You’re a good guy who made a mistake and soon enough this will be behind you. Don’t give up, we like having you around! AJW 1 Link to comment https://vhlforum.com/topic/113986-the-resolution-of-the-vegas-situation/#findComment-898982 Share on other sites More sharing options...
UnknownMinion 728 Posted December 31, 2021 Share Posted December 31, 2021 AJ don’t give up, what ever you do you can be gm again I believe in you AJW 1 Link to comment https://vhlforum.com/topic/113986-the-resolution-of-the-vegas-situation/#findComment-898985 Share on other sites More sharing options...
diacope 1,696 Posted December 31, 2021 Share Posted December 31, 2021 You were one of my favorites AJ so it hurts to read your name right now, never thought you would do something to ruin the leagues integrity, hopefully eventually this feeling goes away and we can talk again, you put in some good work but it's only fair for the rest of us, if they were real accounts or not rory, AJW and fishy 1 2 Link to comment https://vhlforum.com/topic/113986-the-resolution-of-the-vegas-situation/#findComment-898988 Share on other sites More sharing options...
N0HBDY 1,119 Posted December 31, 2021 Share Posted December 31, 2021 7 hours ago, diamond_ace said: AJ is fired from the role of GM of Vegas. Link to comment https://vhlforum.com/topic/113986-the-resolution-of-the-vegas-situation/#findComment-899019 Share on other sites More sharing options...
N0HBDY 1,119 Posted December 31, 2021 Share Posted December 31, 2021 I understand the punishment and you justify it well, it sucks that the VHL finally ups the punishment for owning/operating multi’s and AJ got the brunt of it. He’s a promising character and like he said in his own post, built up Vegas from the grave up basically. The punishment could’ve gone two ways and it’s unfortunate that this is the way but I’m excited to see what opportunities he’ll have a chance to go after In the future and what he might do for the league. AJW and McWolf 2 Link to comment https://vhlforum.com/topic/113986-the-resolution-of-the-vegas-situation/#findComment-899020 Share on other sites More sharing options...
a_Ferk 766 Posted December 31, 2021 Share Posted December 31, 2021 7 hours ago, GrittyIsKing said: what did you do? plagiarized a point task (or multiple, can't remember) Link to comment https://vhlforum.com/topic/113986-the-resolution-of-the-vegas-situation/#findComment-899024 Share on other sites More sharing options...
a_Ferk 766 Posted December 31, 2021 Share Posted December 31, 2021 I like AJ but agree with the ruling. If he was given a warning and another GM did this in the future, the commissioners wouldn't be able to fire them without being hypocrites. It would set a bad precedent. AJW, McWolf and Gustav 3 Link to comment https://vhlforum.com/topic/113986-the-resolution-of-the-vegas-situation/#findComment-899026 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frank 5,212 Posted January 1, 2022 Share Posted January 1, 2022 Ok now do the meta. Link to comment https://vhlforum.com/topic/113986-the-resolution-of-the-vegas-situation/#findComment-899050 Share on other sites More sharing options...
diamond_ace 3,112 Posted January 1, 2022 Author Share Posted January 1, 2022 5 hours ago, a_Ferk said: plagiarized a point task (or multiple, can't remember) He updated for some of his family members on their accounts. Not even multis, definitely not plagiarism. It's bad, but less bad than some, which is why we tried to make the blow as soft as possible while still doing something. Link to comment https://vhlforum.com/topic/113986-the-resolution-of-the-vegas-situation/#findComment-899055 Share on other sites More sharing options...
diamond_ace 3,112 Posted January 1, 2022 Author Share Posted January 1, 2022 6 hours ago, N0HBDY said: Please don't. We had to do something but I'm backing AJ to be back in a role by like 2 seasons from now. I was hoping everyone but rory would at least understand that it's more a delay than an outright block, so to speak. AJW, N0HBDY and Nykonax 3 Link to comment https://vhlforum.com/topic/113986-the-resolution-of-the-vegas-situation/#findComment-899056 Share on other sites More sharing options...
N0HBDY 1,119 Posted January 1, 2022 Share Posted January 1, 2022 vhlm commishes trying to soften the blow: Link to comment https://vhlforum.com/topic/113986-the-resolution-of-the-vegas-situation/#findComment-899059 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gustav 6,428 Posted January 1, 2022 Share Posted January 1, 2022 8 hours ago, a_Ferk said: I like AJ but agree with the ruling. If he was given a warning and another GM did this in the future, the commissioners wouldn't be able to fire them without being hypocrites. It would set a bad precedent. This is my opinion. At some point in the future we could see someone do the exact same thing for a more malicious/selfish reason, and in that case the person should be fired without the encouraging words that were given in this case. Having the same punishment given objectively for the same offense is fair, and I think the door is certainly open for all to accept it and move on. Definitely rooting for AJ to make a comeback, and I hope this will best be described as a learning experience. AJW 1 Link to comment https://vhlforum.com/topic/113986-the-resolution-of-the-vegas-situation/#findComment-899071 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Commissioner Beketov 9,026 Posted January 1, 2022 Commissioner Share Posted January 1, 2022 8 hours ago, diamond_ace said: He updated for some of his family members on their accounts. Not even multis, definitely not plagiarism. It's bad, but less bad than some, which is why we tried to make the blow as soft as possible while still doing something. He was asking what I did 14 years ago, although the answer wasn’t correct for that either. I never plagiarized anything. Link to comment https://vhlforum.com/topic/113986-the-resolution-of-the-vegas-situation/#findComment-899083 Share on other sites More sharing options...
a_Ferk 766 Posted January 1, 2022 Share Posted January 1, 2022 17 hours ago, diamond_ace said: He updated for some of his family members on their accounts. Not even multis, definitely not plagiarism. It's bad, but less bad than some, which is why we tried to make the blow as soft as possible while still doing something. He was asking what Beketov did to get banned I think Link to comment https://vhlforum.com/topic/113986-the-resolution-of-the-vegas-situation/#findComment-899141 Share on other sites More sharing options...
a_Ferk 766 Posted January 1, 2022 Share Posted January 1, 2022 8 hours ago, Beketov said: He was asking what I did 14 years ago, although the answer wasn’t correct for that either. I never plagiarized anything. What did you do then Link to comment https://vhlforum.com/topic/113986-the-resolution-of-the-vegas-situation/#findComment-899142 Share on other sites More sharing options...
a_Ferk 766 Posted January 1, 2022 Share Posted January 1, 2022 8 hours ago, Beketov said: He was asking what I did 14 years ago, although the answer wasn’t correct for that either. I never plagiarized anything. Nvm I found the article. Not plagiarism since it was your own work I suppose. Link to comment https://vhlforum.com/topic/113986-the-resolution-of-the-vegas-situation/#findComment-899144 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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