Message to VHL From Hogan

[Baozi 1,658]

2 hours ago, jRuutu said:

I have been in VHL longer than Discord has existed. Those rules are rules made by VHL.  I didn't vote you or anyone else to be the moderators. Nobody asked me. Nobody asked me about the rules or what is the direction, or ''culture'' the VHL should head towards. I wasn't asked. I'm here, because I can.

 

Just because some in the moderator group feel annoyed doesn't mean they should start transforming the place to their liking. You are annoyed, who cares? You took the job. You decided that monitoring mindless and idiotic content and behaviour is a job for you. Your job is not to transform VHL to a forum for the bright minds of modern society.

 

What if the private community is turning to shit? Soon this is not some fun and exciting place to visit where anything can happen. VHL is slowly turning into sad and dull corner of the internet, where nothing interesting is ever said. Nobody acts crazy or wild. Nobody says anything out of the ordinary. We are not learning anything interesting about each other, because there is nothing to learn. Just copies with exactly same ideas and thoughts talking to each other.  Is it a privilege then?

 

Everyone was asked, you chose not to participate in a leadership position or management of the league. There have always been staff positions and people work towards things like BOG, GMing or other staff roles in order to inact change and help drive the league forward. Its similar to voting, if you don't take part in the process, you get no say in the direction it goes. Meanwhile staff like us and everyone else has worked and poured in volunteer hours through in order to drive the success and growth of the league so yes we do have a say, because that is what our responsibilities in these roles are.

 

If the private community turns to shit we  (or whomevever are in our positions) responsibility is to fix it much like the mod team tirelessly tries to remove cheaters or toxic unwanted elements to the league in order to make it a better and safer place for everyone else. Just because you don't find it to your liking doesn't make it wrong, it just makes it your opinion.

 

If you think the VHL is a sad and dull corner of the internet then why are you here? Why don't you find some other place that fits your ideals more?

[Josh 1,665]

26 minutes ago, GustavMattias said:

I will say that the post was written very confusingly if harassment is what started the conversation (and presumably was the main contributor to the punishment).

 

4 hours ago, Josh said:

The incident that started the discussion was a long history of harassment of an individual and that was the primary motivator.

 

Yes.

 

26 minutes ago, GustavMattias said:

I don't know the details of the harassment case(s), won't comment on them, and don't think I can have a fair opinion of this punishment because of it. So I'm not writing this to protest it, but I do take some exception to the way it was reported.

 

Which is why I've stated that the harassment was the primary reason, is that not the additional information you wanted?

[jRuutu 2,464]

22 minutes ago, Baozi said:

 

Everyone was asked, you chose not to participate in a leadership position or management of the league. There have always been staff positions and people work towards things like BOG, GMing or other staff roles in order to inact change and help drive the league forward. Its similar to voting, if you don't take part in the process, you get no say in the direction it goes. Meanwhile staff like us and everyone else has worked and poured in volunteer hours through in order to drive the success and growth of the league so yes we do have a say, because that is what our responsibilities in these roles are.

 

If the private community turns to shit we  (or whomevever are in our positions) responsibility is to fix it much like the mod team tirelessly tries to remove cheaters or toxic unwanted elements to the league in order to make it a better and safer place for everyone else. Just because you don't find it to your liking doesn't make it wrong, it just makes it your opinion.

 

If you think the VHL is a sad and dull corner of the internet then why are you here? Why don't you find some other place that fits your ideals more?

Sounds like the league needs some kind of regular user representative that is heard during these ''change of culture'' meetings.  There is no way a user like me gets into places like BOG or other similar place that focuses on these issues and topics. The way I can do my part is by talking about the topics I care about in the forums and/or through some kind of regular user representative.

 

There is no going back once you remove certain element and bring another element in return. Once you go ''soft'' you don't just get back ''hard'' by snapping your fingers.  The fabric and whole vibe is changing. That is what I tried to say with the dull corner comment. There are no other places. Every place is the same.

Edited January 29, 2022 by jRuutu

[Gustav 6,406]

6 minutes ago, Josh said:

Which is why I've stated that the harassment was the primary reason, is that not the additional information you wanted?

 

That's true, and thank you for doing that.

 

I just feel like if that was the main reason, the ban thread should say that instead of spending most of the announcement talking about shitposting in genchat.

[zepheter 586]

i miss gogan

[rory 1,915]

41 minutes ago, Baozi said:

 

Everyone was asked, you chose not to participate in a leadership position or management of the league. There have always been staff positions and people work towards things like BOG, GMing or other staff roles in order to inact change and help drive the league forward. Its similar to voting, if you don't take part in the process, you get no say in the direction it goes. Meanwhile staff like us and everyone else has worked and poured in volunteer hours through in order to drive the success and growth of the league so yes we do have a say, because that is what our responsibilities in these roles are.

 

If the private community turns to shit we  (or whomevever are in our positions) responsibility is to fix it much like the mod team tirelessly tries to remove cheaters or toxic unwanted elements to the league in order to make it a better and safer place for everyone else. Just because you don't find it to your liking doesn't make it wrong, it just makes it your opinion.

 

If you think the VHL is a sad and dull corner of the internet then why are you here? Why don't you find some other place that fits your ideals more?

pretend that the BoG doesn't internally elect people without a public application 

[Baozi 1,658]

2 minutes ago, jRuutu said:

Sounds like the league needs some kind of regular user representative that is heard during these ''change of culture'' meetings.  There is no way a user like me gets into places like BOG or other similar place that focuses on these issues and topics. The way I can do my part is by talking about the topics I care about in the forums and/or through some kind of regular user representative.

 

There is no going back once you remove certain element and bring another element in return. Once you go ''soft'' you don't just get back ''hard'' by snapping your fingers.  The fabric and whole vibe is changing. That is what I tried to say with the dull corner comment. There are no other places. Every place is the same.

 

No offense but Dil has been muted and had his run ins with VHL staff before and he is part of the direction change. So I mean anyone can participate if they put in the effort to do so. 

 

In regards to every place being too "soft" in your opinion. The world is changing. 

[BOOM 8,745]

General questions. Has Hogan been penalised before and do any previous "bans" contribute to a harsher punishment next time. Its probably in the Coc but I'd rather ask a mod. 

 

Update : I see at least one previous ban, so ignore Q1. 

Edited January 29, 2022 by BOOM

[Ben 200]

2 hours ago, GustavMattias said:

 

I will say that the post was written very confusingly if harassment is what started the conversation (and presumably was the main contributor to the punishment). I didn't even really realize that until I asked in this thread because I opened up the initial announcement to read a giant list of minor rule-breaking on Discord. I also get why someone might think everything possible was dug up to pull it off--I've posted memes in genchat before and I never once expected to see it in the ban thread. Whether it was done to smear Hogan or not, and whether or not it was necessary, someone clearly sat down and thought of every single thing he's ever done on Discord for further justification when apparently there was a primary issue and that might not be clear to everyone.

 

I don't know the details of the harassment case(s), won't comment on them, and don't think I can have a fair opinion of this punishment because of it. So I'm not writing this to protest it, but I do take some exception to the way it was reported.

I post memes In gen chat all the time with mods in it, never have even been warned or anything. A mod found something or had a talk with hogan and probably got mad over it and tried to find everything he has done in the past. Again though I don’t know everything so I also don’t want my words taken as facts.

[v.2 1,406]

Who did he harass?  That should be public.

[Gustav 6,406]

1 minute ago, v.2 said:

Who did he harass?  That should be public.

 

Disagree. The person being harassed has a right to their own privacy.

 

We do have the right as a community to know where the line is/what's cool and what isn't/what happened in general though. I think it's decently well explained in this thread (though the announcement should have been more clear about that part rather than just sneaking it in at the end).

[Beketov 9,024]

31 minutes ago, Ben said:

I post memes In gen chat all the time with mods in it, never have even been warned or anything. A mod found something or had a talk with hogan and probably got mad over it and tried to find everything he has done in the past. Again though I don’t know everything so I also don’t want my words taken as facts.

There was no digging to try and make the case worse. In actuality it’s more of a pile of warnings for multiple different infractions all culminating together. There was a discussion on whether it should be a warning for lack of “history in regards to the harassment” but it was deemed that realistically warning a user for every single thing knowing they’ll just move into something new and avoid punishment doesn’t make sense. So all of the infractions were lumped together a bit in the ban thread. The actual length was more or less for the harassment on its own, the indefinite discord was mostly for everything else.

 

But no, again, there was no mod digging through to try and make a larger case. The case was already made and well known. Our mods don’t make a habit of trying to make punishments larger for the fun of it. Contrary to popular belief we don’t enjoy punishing people.

[Banackock 8,044]

I’m not disagreeing or agreeing with the punishment. Let’s get that off first as I don’t care to debate it. Now I heard, and I may be wrong, but he had been harassing this member for being racist and/or saying racist words. It’s also my understanding that the accused member was also the one who reported him. Now, allegedly he has no evidence or grounds to accuse continuously, but with that said, did the league/mods investigate the serious accusation or just discipline a member because of the members history and do nothing after?  (Genuine ask)
 

I tried asking a mod for understanding and clarity and never received an answer. 

Edited January 30, 2022 by Banackock

[Banackock 8,044]

28 minutes ago, GustavMattias said:

We do have the right as a community to know where the line is/what's cool and what isn't/what happened in general though.

 Depends who you are, your relationship with the people during the conversation, your history and relations with staff and moderators. 

[a_Ferk 766]

Go Oilers!

[v.2 1,406]

Banned for harassing a racist…. The plot thickens.

[v.2 1,406]

1 hour ago, GustavMattias said:

 

Disagree. The person being harassed has a right to their own privacy.

 

We do have the right as a community to know where the line is/what's cool and what isn't/what happened in general though. I think it's decently well explained in this thread (though the announcement should have been more clear about that part rather than just sneaking it in at the end).

I mean maybe not but if the situations were laid out more clearly then we wouldn’t have threads like this just stirring things further and promoting further speculation and uncertainty of CoC rules.

[Ben 200]

1 hour ago, Beketov said:

There was no digging to try and make the case worse. In actuality it’s more of a pile of warnings for multiple different infractions all culminating together. There was a discussion on whether it should be a warning for lack of “history in regards to the harassment” but it was deemed that realistically warning a user for every single thing knowing they’ll just move into something new and avoid punishment doesn’t make sense. So all of the infractions were lumped together a bit in the ban thread. The actual length was more or less for the harassment on its own, the indefinite discord was mostly for everything else.

 

But no, again, there was no mod digging through to try and make a larger case. The case was already made and well known. Our mods don’t make a habit of trying to make punishments larger for the fun of it. Contrary to popular belief we don’t enjoy punishing people.

Still seems weird in my eyes but oh well, you probably know more then me. 

[Ben 200]

Look guys at the end of the day Evander Kane sucks, D.C is mid, Vancouver metawolves are trash.

[Garsh 1,189]

46 minutes ago, v.2 said:

Banned for harassing a racist…. The plot thickens.

 

I duno what warnings Hogan was or wasn't given but I know other members have been asked not to keep bringing up things members have done in the past.

[Banackock 8,044]

2 hours ago, Ben said:

Look guys at the end of the day Evander Kane sucks, D.C is mid, Vancouver metawolves are trash.

Kane scored  

[Ben 200]

3 minutes ago, Banackock said:

Kane scored  

I know Bro