2013-2014 NFL Discussion Thread

[Da Trifecta 1,902]

Zac Stacy did okay.. but not enough for OROTY.. 

 

He didn't play in like the first 4 games and almost topped 1K yards with 7 scores.

[Guest]

He didn't play in like the first 4 games and almost topped 1K yards with 7 scores.

He missed 2 games. one less than Allen and Lacy. Also if you say he didn't start, that gets taken into consideration. Because the voters vote on what you got, not what you could've got. Lacy beats him in every category by 205 yards, 4 TD's on the ground and also 161 yards and -1 TD in the air. Thus if you truly think Stacy could get 205 yards +4 Rushing TD's and 161 yards receiving in one game, then by all means Stacy deserves it. Otherwise I think thats just a hate for the Packers.

[eaglesfan036 4,605]

Yeah I'd say Eddie Lacy for rookie of the year.

[.sniffuM 1,741]

1. Overselling? Donald Brown's contributions to the team fixed the issue that Richardson was added for.

 

2. Donald Brown was the 27th overall pick in the 2009 Draft by the Colts. They have been waiting for him to step up and shine. This is big for the Colts because if they can get their former 1st round pick to step up and play, plus he is only 26, it could do wonders for the Colts... First off it checks off a starting position that needs to be addressed.

 

3. The highest the Browns pick (from Colts) can be is 25th. So 25th overall or playoff run? I would go playoff run.

 

4. Sure the Colts need OL help, but they wanted a Super Bowl this season. They can't screw their season because their offensive line is not perfect. All teams have their flaws, but the Colts believed that Luck would be able to work around the flaws of the OL like RG3 did last year, and therefore the Colts addressed a position that one guy could fix and help Luck with a playoff run.

 

5. 25th overall is not a high pick. Sure it is first round, but Browns seem to do a pretty awful job in the Draft.. Supplementary not so bad recently.. Josh Gordon was a genius move by them..

 

6. You said the Colts overpaid in the trade, and the Browns were genius in the trade. The Browns were not genius.. They were lucky that a team was desperate for a RB. So desperate, that the they were willing to send over a first rounder for a RB that had the probability of doing something. And think about this. What if Trent Richardson had done amazing? The Browns would have been screwed because they lost talent and only got a late first rounder. And the fact that the Browns missed that bad at 3rd overall really shows they are not geniuses. 

 

7. The fact that the Colts made the playoffs and then one their first game shows that the Colts so far have won this trade. If the Browns are able to draft a gem at 25th+ then maybe the winner will change..

 

8. After the trade, the Browns really had no one to take over the RB position and had to scramble to find someone.. Willis McGahee did not do so hot in relief.. Not good personnel planning.. Not so smart

 

1. Yes, you're severely overselling his impact. You make it sound as if the Colts wouldn't have made it to the playoffs without him and yet the Colts relied on him to run the ball 10 times or more in consecutive games just once all season. 5 yards per carry is very good, but it's not as if he all of a sudden became a world-beater just because the team traded for Trent Richardson. Also, don't forget that while Donald Brown was getting his 55 yards on 10 carries Trent Richardson was plodding his way to 15 yards on 7 carries at the same time. I don't understand how a guy that went into the season third on the depth chart was suddenly inspired by the opportunity to split carries with a poor running back.

 

2. The most carries Donald Brown had this year in a game was 14... just because he can do well in a split back role doesn't mean he's all of a sudden gonna become a world beater. If he doesn't have the characteristics of a feature back like I don't believe he has, then don't expect his success to mean too much. Two seasons ago he had 134 carries and averaged 4.8 yards per carry, pretty similar to this year. Doesn't mean he's just gonna figure it out and become a 1,200 yard guy now like you sound so optimistic about.

 

3. That's you, but I'd rather improve an important unit and ensure long-term success.

 

4. Except the offensive line is a huge part of the reason Richardson was such a useless acquisition. Running for Cleveland last year, behind the 5th best run blocking offensive line in the league (per ProFootballFocus), RIchardson was mediocre. For the Colts and their poor line, he's been even worse. Now the team likely will take longer to fix their offensive line, meaning it'll be longer before Richardson can be effective for them, at which point his confidence will likely be shot and he'll be done as a runner.

 

5. Someone's been playing a little too much Madden. 25th pick is absolutely a high pick, as is essentially any pick in the first two rounds. Any team that doesn't view a late first round pick as one they can get value out of has no faith in their scouting department and needs to clean house. As for the Browns, I'd say they've drafted decently of late. Jordan Cameron, Alex Mack, Mitchell Schwartz, TJ Ward, Joe Haden, Phil Taylor, and Jabaal Sheard are all good players they've recently drafted. They've missed a bit of late at the top, but if they don't have confidence in what they're doing then everyone in the front office needs to go.

 

6. The Browns weren't genius because they found a team that was desperate. They were genius because everyone in the media was so convinced thanks to the idiot fantasy football community that Trent Richardson was so good, but the Browns were able to make the move that they needed to make before the rest of the league caught on about his true lack of value. They took so much shit for it at the time but in the end they were better off while the Colts had essentially no positive from the deal.

 

7. Out of this deal, the Browns got the 25th overall pick. The Colts got 2.9 yards per carry on over 150 runs. Saying that the Colts won the deal just because they made the playoffs is one of the least sensible things I've heard in a long time. So Andrew Luck, a swarming defense and TY Hilton had nothing to do with the Colts making the playoffs and winning their first game? It was Trent Richardson's 1 carry for no yards in that game? Okay.

 

8. That didn't really matter. Did anyone honestly expect the Browns to be good this year? They have the pieces on defense and they have a couple of weapons, plus a great offensive line, all they need is a QB and an RB (and a pass rusher). They are now well equipped to fill their needs with players who fit their system better. At the end of the day, at the time, Trent Richardson didn't fit Chudzinski's system that relies on quicker RBs, so (absolutely mind-blowingly stupid firing aside) given that they were considering that to be their system at the time, they got a chance to get high value in exchange for a reserve-level player and now have the chance to pick up a good prospect that better fits their offense moving forward.

[d3vilsfire 132]

1&2= all i can say is that when called upon, Brown did what his team needed.. Thats what the colts needed richardson to do, but he didnt cause he isnt good

3. In hockey i would definitely agree with you.. But because football players hav such a short shelf life, teams who are constructed right/hav the right mentality, r striving for the playoffs every year.. You cant waste a precious year of a bunch of players for one player..

4. I think we both agree Richardson was a useless acquisition.. My point in debating with you is the fact that the Browns were not geniuses

5. Ah i was confused on what u deemed a high pick.. Yes, first 3 rounds are very important in the Nfl.. But a 25th overall for a player they drafted 3rd overall two seasons ago is rlly sad.. And that is my point.. The Browns are bad drafters as of recent.. Both 2012 first rounders are considered busts.. And Mingo had a health scare, seems to be getting there, but unproven.. It seems the Browns hav a losing mentality.. As a Skins fan, ive been through all the ups and downs (except for winnigg a super bowl).. But i hav more hope for my team than many browns fans for theirs.. (Sidenote: madden 2013 turned me off completely.. The day i got it i played it for 2hrs, then sold it the next day.. I hate what they did with it now)

6. Braving the media shouldnt be considered a geniuses.. Plus, do u think teams make judgements solely on media? Hell no! What happened here was a failure in the Colts scout office.. They were supposed to evaluate Richardson and see if he would fit into their system.. The Colts misjudged and the Browns benefitted.. There is no genius on either team

7. This gos back to my response to point 1&2.. Brown's stats rnt flashy, yes, but he performed when called upon, and thats what helped the Offense perform and the Colts get to the playoffs.. I think we both agree that Richardson is a total bust on both sides

8. I fully expected them to get somewhere this year.. With all their flashy signings and all.. I expected them to be in contention for a wild card.. I even rooted for them when Brian Hoyer was playin. Oh so they need what is considered the most important position on offense, and the most important part in a run game?.. That definitely isnt hard to fill.. (Kirk Cousins? )This should be an interesting draft.. Another Brandon Weeden and Trent Richardson? (I agree with you, dumb firing, but this seems to be a cycle for the Browns.. How can the Browns be considered geniuses?)

9. R u a Browns fan? Or are u simply defending ur point?

[Da Trifecta 1,902]

He missed 2 games. one less than Allen and Lacy. Also if you say he didn't start, that gets taken into consideration. Because the voters vote on what you got, not what you could've got. Lacy beats him in every category by 205 yards, 4 TD's on the ground and also 161 yards and -1 TD in the air. Thus if you truly think Stacy could get 205 yards +4 Rushing TD's and 161 yards receiving in one game, then by all means Stacy deserves it. Otherwise I think thats just a hate for the Packers.

 

To be honest it was 3 then if you wanna count the 1 Lacy didn't play. So I actually think that in the other 3 games he could have gotten the 205 in the air, the 4 td's on the ground and quite possible the 161 in the air and that other td. He didn't start for the other 2 first games he was active so the fact that I do believe he can get it, is real. It's not because I hate the Packers, (in which case I don't), but due to the fact that he could have gotten those in the other 3 games. Not 1. 3 GAMES!

[Guest]

To be honest it was 3 then if you wanna count the 1 Lacy didn't play. So I actually think that in the other 3 games he could have gotten the 205 in the air, the 4 td's on the ground and quite possible the 161 in the air and that other td. He didn't start for the other 2 first games he was active so the fact that I do believe he can get it, is real. It's not because I hate the Packers, (in which case I don't), but due to the fact that he could have gotten those in the other 3 games. Not 1. 3 GAMES!

I'm so confused. Of course we count the game Lacy didn't play…because he didn't play in it at all. He was inactive with a Concussion. Also, like I said they don't take into effect if the guy missed games or didn't start. That's not how the voting goes my friend.

[.sniffuM 1,741]

1&2= all i can say is that when called upon, Brown did what his team needed.. Thats what the colts needed richardson to do, but he didnt cause he isnt good

3. In hockey i would definitely agree with you.. But because football players hav such a short shelf life, teams who are constructed right/hav the right mentality, r striving for the playoffs every year.. You cant waste a precious year of a bunch of players for one player..

4. I think we both agree Richardson was a useless acquisition.. My point in debating with you is the fact that the Browns were not geniuses

5. Ah i was confused on what u deemed a high pick.. Yes, first 3 rounds are very important in the Nfl.. But a 25th overall for a player they drafted 3rd overall two seasons ago is rlly sad.. And that is my point.. The Browns are bad drafters as of recent.. Both 2012 first rounders are considered busts.. And Mingo had a health scare, seems to be getting there, but unproven.. It seems the Browns hav a losing mentality.. As a Skins fan, ive been through all the ups and downs (except for winnigg a super bowl).. But i hav more hope for my team than many browns fans for theirs.. (Sidenote: madden 2013 turned me off completely.. The day i got it i played it for 2hrs, then sold it the next day.. I hate what they did with it now)

6. Braving the media shouldnt be considered a geniuses.. Plus, do u think teams make judgements solely on media? Hell no! What happened here was a failure in the Colts scout office.. They were supposed to evaluate Richardson and see if he would fit into their system.. The Colts misjudged and the Browns benefitted.. There is no genius on either team

7. This gos back to my response to point 1&2.. Brown's stats rnt flashy, yes, but he performed when called upon, and thats what helped the Offense perform and the Colts get to the playoffs.. I think we both agree that Richardson is a total bust on both sides

8. I fully expected them to get somewhere this year.. With all their flashy signings and all.. I expected them to be in contention for a wild card.. I even rooted for them when Brian Hoyer was playin. Oh so they need what is considered the most important position on offense, and the most important part in a run game?.. That definitely isnt hard to fill.. (Kirk Cousins? )This should be an interesting draft.. Another Brandon Weeden and Trent Richardson? (I agree with you, dumb firing, but this seems to be a cycle for the Browns.. How can the Browns be considered geniuses?)

9. R u a Browns fan? Or are u simply defending ur point?

 

Agree to disagree, but I'd say that with what the Colts have they would've been fine with another good-but-not-great year if it meant solidifying their future. If their needs were sparse I'd agree with you, but the offensive line is so important and the team has a need at wideout opening up soon as well. In a draft so strong on offensive linemen and receivers, a first rounder this year would be great for them to have. I'd say that getting the Colts to misjudge so significantly makes the Browns geniuses. They got a very significant return for a player that, when you take origin completely out of the picture and just consider production and showed potential, didn't come close to deserving that return. I also wouldn't call it a failing of the Browns as a whole because Richardson was selected by the previous front office regime (and any front office that ever deemed Brandon Weeden worthy of a first round pick was a failure in and of itself).

 

And no, I'm not a Browns fan. I'm a Jets fan so I can understand your pain as a Redskins fan. I didn't really see the Browns being a player this year because of their FA pickups, mainly because Paul Kruger's a streaky player and he and Desmond Bryant were overpayments (Bryant moreso than Kruger), but that's just me. At the end of the day, QB play will determine whether you sink or swim, and I wasn't even remotely high on Weeden (or Richardson, the other part of their offense).

[Da Trifecta 1,902]

I'm so confused. Of course we count the game Lacy didn't play…because he didn't play in it at all. He was inactive with a Concussion. Also, like I said they don't take into effect if the guy missed games or didn't start. That's not how the voting goes my friend.

 

Well obviously not but the fact he put up those numbers through 12 games is pretty good for a rookie. But Keenan Allen will win it over Lacy for sure.

[Guest]

Well obviously not but the fact he put up those numbers through 12 games is pretty good for a rookie. But Keenan Allen will win it over Lacy for sure.

Okay now support that. Its pretty even but I'd love an explanation.

[.sniffuM 1,741]

Considering who votes for these awards, Lacy's absolutely gonna win it.

[d3vilsfire 132]

Agree to disagree, but I'd say that with what the Colts have they would've been fine with another good-but-not-great year if it meant solidifying their future. If their needs were sparse I'd agree with you, but the offensive line is so important and the team has a need at wideout opening up soon as well. In a draft so strong on offensive linemen and receivers, a first rounder this year would be great for them to have. I'd say that getting the Colts to misjudge so significantly makes the Browns geniuses. They got a very significant return for a player that, when you take origin completely out of the picture and just consider production and showed potential, didn't come close to deserving that return. I also wouldn't call it a failing of the Browns as a whole because Richardson was selected by the previous front office regime (and any front office that ever deemed Brandon Weeden worthy of a first round pick was a failure in and of itself).

And no, I'm not a Browns fan. I'm a Jets fan so I can understand your pain as a Redskins fan. I didn't really see the Browns being a player this year because of their FA pickups, mainly because Paul Kruger's a streaky player and he and Desmond Bryant were overpayments (Bryant moreso than Kruger), but that's just me. At the end of the day, QB play will determine whether you sink or swim, and I wasn't even remotely high on Weeden (or Richardson, the other part of their offense).

If the draft is truly strong At OL and at WR, then i believe the Colts judged that and believe they can address those positions via draft or free agency..

The thing is, i dont think the Browns had any deception. They let Richardson play, Colts watched him.. Evaluated him, judged him (misjudged) and pulled the trigger for him.. The only way the Browns could hav hyped him up would be to continually enforce he was a third overall pick.. I see luck, desperation, and shitty evaluation basically describing the trade and teams.. No geniuses at all..

But you are right in the fact that they got a great return for a crap player, but im attributing that to luck..

Agree to disagree.. I believe a head coach should bend his playbook/style to strengths of key components on his team, like Shanny did with RG3.. Chud didnt do that, and the 2012 first round draft picks were waved away.. So i feel like that was a Browns as a whole issue..

Ouch.. A Jets fan.. Way too much drama for me.. Skins were almost reaching that point and it angered me.. Who do you think is in a better position right now, jets or skins? What do u think of the jets and skins rosters?

Ya i loled when Cleveland drafted Brandon Weeden.. He wasnt any good.. Hell, Nick Foles and Russell Wilson were better than Weeden predraft.. But oh well.. Cleveland and Jacksonville are known as the worst teams in the league with little to no hope.. Maybe Johnny Manziel can spark some life into one of them.. Id like to see Manziel with Jacksonville of the two teams

[diamond_ace 3,112]

That was a close game. I'm not too upset with the way we played. I just wished that first quarter was better. Once we legit get a secondary that can cover and we heal up we could have a better defence. GO Panthers!

Welcome aboard

[.sniffuM 1,741]

If the draft is truly strong At OL and at WR, then i believe the Colts judged that and believe they can address those positions via draft or free agency..

The thing is, i dont think the Browns had any deception. They let Richardson play, Colts watched him.. Evaluated him, judged him (misjudged) and pulled the trigger for him.. The only way the Browns could hav hyped him up would be to continually enforce he was a third overall pick.. I see luck, desperation, and shitty evaluation basically describing the trade and teams.. No geniuses at all..

But you are right in the fact that they got a great return for a crap player, but im attributing that to luck..

Agree to disagree.. I believe a head coach should bend his playbook/style to strengths of key components on his team, like Shanny did with RG3.. Chud didnt do that, and the 2012 first round draft picks were waved away.. So i feel like that was a Browns as a whole issue..

Ouch.. A Jets fan.. Way too much drama for me.. Skins were almost reaching that point and it angered me.. Who do you think is in a better position right now, jets or skins? What do u think of the jets and skins rosters?

Ya i loled when Cleveland drafted Brandon Weeden.. He wasnt any good.. Hell, Nick Foles and Russell Wilson were better than Weeden predraft.. But oh well.. Cleveland and Jacksonville are known as the worst teams in the league with little to no hope.. Maybe Johnny Manziel can spark some life into one of them.. Id like to see Manziel with Jacksonville of the two teams

 

In all honesty, and not trying to be a homer here because I despise homerism (and being from New Jersey, if there's one word to describe the sports fans here, it's homer), but I honestly think the Jets are better set for the future. I wanted the Jets to use their second rounder last year to fill a need rather than picking Geno because of how good this draft is with QBs (already I'd say Bridgewater, Manziel, Carr, and Bortles are better coming out of the gate than Geno), but ultimately they aren't that bad talent-wise. They need a playmaker to add to their receiving corps (I'd love for Eric Ebron or Marquise Lee), an interior offensive lineman, some outside pass rushing and a good safety (maybe Clinton-Dix will fall to them), but for a team that sports websites were legitimately (and retardedly) predicting to go 0-16, there honestly exist fewer holes than most realize. I found it simultaneously ridiculous and hilarious to see things like ESPN ranking the Jets 32nd in the league going into the season that just passed. It's ridiculous how hard ESPN banks on the hateability they've created for the Jets, but at least a fully mediocre team (like I had expected to see coming into the season) shut them up.

 

As far as Washington is concerned, although RGIII's an interesting player, I just don't see a way to justify trading 3 1st's to move up to pick this guy. Sure, he was considered an elite prospect, but there have been a ton of other QBs that have come along that wouldn't cost that team nearly so much. Now they're loaded with holes and lack the second overall pick they should have for the sake of one player. I'd imagine you know the nooks and crannies of the team better, but as far as I know, I actually feel as if, talent-wise, they're on their way to another bottom 5 finish this upcoming season (although it's too early for that).

 

EDIT: Also, a lot of the perceived strength of this draft at OL and WR comes from some guys outplaying their previous profile (like Greg Robinson at OL and Jalen Strong at WR). The draft was already top heavy with good guys in both units projected to be top-half of the first round like Jake Matthews and Taylor Lewan on the OL and Sammy Watkins and Marquise Lee at WR but the units have strengthened throughout the college season.

Edited January 9, 2014 by Muffins

[Da Trifecta 1,902]

Okay now support that. Its pretty even but I'd love an explanation.

 

They do take into consideration the teams they play on and also the strength of their schedules.

[Da Trifecta 1,902]

Welcome aboard

 

And their gone

[Guest]

They do take into consideration the teams they play on and also the strength of their schedules.

No they don't take strength of scheduling into effect haha

[.sniffuM 1,741]

They do take into consideration the teams they play on and also the strength of their schedules.

 

The award is voted on by media writers. Think about what you've heard all season. When Aaron Rodgers went down, all the NFL media talked about was that Eddie Lacy kept GB afloat. Meanwhile, it's been Phillip Rivers' comeback, not Keenan Allen's play, that has gotten most of the talk outside of San Diego. I can say with 100% certainty that Eddie Lacy is gonna win the award.

[boubabi 4,725]

Great Duracell commercial

 

http://youtu.be/u2HD57z4F8E

[Guest]

Great Duracell commercial

 

http://youtu.be/u2HD57z4F8E

I was just going to post this! Hate the Seahawks cause of Pete Carroll, but I will be cheering for Coleman nonetheless!

[diamond_ace 3,112]

So I hate 2 of the 4 remaining teams, and can't in good conscience cheer for one of the ones I don't hate when they knocked us out, so Denver or bust I guess...

[Guest]

So I hate 2 of the 4 remaining teams, and can't in good conscience cheer for one of the ones I don't hate when they knocked us out, so Denver or bust I guess...

I'm in the same boat man.

 

Seattle: Hate Browner and Carroll

San Fran: Good team but their coach whines too much

New England: I find Brady and Belicheat arrogant.

[eaglesfan036 4,605]

I'm with you guys. I dislike all the teams left but the Broncos.

[diamond_ace 3,112]

I'm with you guys. I dislike all the teams left but the Broncos.

I don't necessarily hate SF,  but as a Carolina fan you can see how I might not be their biggest fans at the moment

[Mike 708]

Rooting against the Patriots and don't really like any team in the NFC.  I'm not rooting for the Broncos as much as I'm rooting for Payton to win another super bowl.  He is IMO the best QB ever in the history of the NFL and I want nothing more than to see him with another ring and put an end to some of the talk about him failing in the playoffs.