Moderator Baozi 1,658 Posted January 6, 2014 Moderator Share Posted January 6, 2014 This is more the fault of some GMs more so than others. When IR and Corro (I think you were...) were GMs they took everybody they could via free waivers because they knew the experience sucks if nobody picks you up, there are also GMs out there that only half ass it anyways and don't consider the bigger picture and that is where the problem lies. When I was commishing the VHLM I either assigned people to teams at certain points in time and told GMs to pick up guys or I would slot them in for them. I didn't follow everything by the book back then honestly, I had a mandate to do and for the most part it worked out as that generation of VHLM players turned out for the most part into active players. There needs to be a better understanding of claiming new players over concerns of tanking (which should be discouraged at all costs, even to the point where I was going to make all picks lottery picks, but then I retired before going ahead to implement it) Also I had an idea on the back burner I was going to use for for the VHLM, this might be the time to do so. Waiver players can be assigned to each of the VHLM teams via region pick (kind of like in soccer, where you grow young talent and have first dibs in your own region). How is region determined you say? Random number assignment. Certainly it means one region may end up with more waiver players than another but it was an idea I had not fully detailed out but certainly could be put to use here. so instead of a waiver priority, players are randomly assigned to teams when they join, meaning no player is left out because a GM is unwilling to use their waiver priority. Link to comment https://vhlforum.com/topic/3549-vhlm-waiver-discussion/page/9/#findComment-26004 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corco 1,237 Posted January 6, 2014 Share Posted January 6, 2014 We need better recruiting. Link to comment https://vhlforum.com/topic/3549-vhlm-waiver-discussion/page/9/#findComment-26005 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike 708 Posted January 6, 2014 Share Posted January 6, 2014 @Kendrick 6 teams is an extreme IMO but dropping down from 10 back to 8 should be done if its not difficult. All we want for the VHLM is to create a more active environment. You want every player to always be put on a team but if the team is shitty already and you bring in 3-4 0-20 TPE players who lose all the time too that's also not very fun. Maybe we need to stop treating the VHLM like a minor league of the VHL and create a communist haven of equality. VHLM could use a salary cap based on TPE at the start of the season you must have a min/max of a certain amount of TPE. It would put every team on a more even playing field and balance out the power. It would prevent teams from overly dominating say Lynx last season or whoever did it this year (BRA?) with the first 5-6 picks in a draft. It would also prevent teams who run 0 picks one season to get 6 1sts the next. If a TPE cap doesn't seem to be your cup of tea maybe we need to have drafted players only last 1 season ie a fantasy draft essentially every season for the VHLM. Everyone is building to win a cup every season or at least put in a position to not totally tank. You can still offer trade incentives by maybe trading waiver position to move up or down in the draft or allow only 1 season of draft picks ahead to be traded not two or three at the draft which was recently put in. All I know is in general the minor system doesn't work as we want it to and every season we complain about it. We've had tons of changes maybe its time for something more drastic. Link to comment https://vhlforum.com/topic/3549-vhlm-waiver-discussion/page/9/#findComment-26043 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted January 6, 2014 Share Posted January 6, 2014 @Kendrick 6 teams is an extreme IMO but dropping down from 10 back to 8 should be done if its not difficult. All we want for the VHLM is to create a more active environment. You want every player to always be put on a team but if the team is shitty already and you bring in 3-4 0-20 TPE players who lose all the time too that's also not very fun. Maybe we need to stop treating the VHLM like a minor league of the VHL and create a communist haven of equality. VHLM could use a salary cap based on TPE at the start of the season you must have a min/max of a certain amount of TPE. It would put every team on a more even playing field and balance out the power. It would prevent teams from overly dominating say Lynx last season or whoever did it this year (BRA?) with the first 5-6 picks in a draft. It would also prevent teams who run 0 picks one season to get 6 1sts the next. If a TPE cap doesn't seem to be your cup of tea maybe we need to have drafted players only last 1 season ie a fantasy draft essentially every season for the VHLM. Everyone is building to win a cup every season or at least put in a position to not totally tank. You can still offer trade incentives by maybe trading waiver position to move up or down in the draft or allow only 1 season of draft picks ahead to be traded not two or three at the draft which was recently put in. All I know is in general the minor system doesn't work as we want it to and every season we complain about it. We've had tons of changes maybe its time for something more drastic. I'm not debating the number Mike, I'm debating the realistic prospective of actually doing that in the sim. To decrease to 8 teams makes Jardy do a whole hell of a lot of work every season and every sim. You also have to have bot teams play out the games cause 10 teams are connected to 10 VHL teams in the sim. So it wouldn't work. Link to comment https://vhlforum.com/topic/3549-vhlm-waiver-discussion/page/9/#findComment-26072 Share on other sites More sharing options...
RomanesEuntDomus 442 Posted January 6, 2014 Share Posted January 6, 2014 (edited) I'm not debating the number Mike, I'm debating the realistic prospective of actually doing that in the sim. To decrease to 8 teams makes Jardy do a whole hell of a lot of work every season and every sim. You also have to have bot teams play out the games cause 10 teams are connected to 10 VHL teams in the sim. So it wouldn't work. Despite all the problems there are, we need to try it. We had like 10 actives in the most recent junior draft and even in very good years we maybe get 15 or 20 at best. This isn't nearly enough to support 10 teams (even 8 would be too many imho) and we can't just keep saying "Well this is how it is now and changing it would be too complicated." And there are at least a couple of possible solutions: Bot-teams, running the VHLM in a separate Sim (with a new Simmer, so that would take some work off Jardys shoulders as well. @Kendrick 6 teams is an extreme IMO but dropping down from 10 back to 8 should be done if its not difficult. All we want for the VHLM is to create a more active environment. You want every player to always be put on a team but if the team is shitty already and you bring in 3-4 0-20 TPE players who lose all the time too that's also not very fun. Maybe we need to stop treating the VHLM like a minor league of the VHL and create a communist haven of equality. VHLM could use a salary cap based on TPE at the start of the season you must have a min/max of a certain amount of TPE. It would put every team on a more even playing field and balance out the power. It would prevent teams from overly dominating say Lynx last season or whoever did it this year (BRA?) with the first 5-6 picks in a draft. It would also prevent teams who run 0 picks one season to get 6 1sts the next. If a TPE cap doesn't seem to be your cup of tea maybe we need to have drafted players only last 1 season ie a fantasy draft essentially every season for the VHLM. Everyone is building to win a cup every season or at least put in a position to not totally tank. You can still offer trade incentives by maybe trading waiver position to move up or down in the draft or allow only 1 season of draft picks ahead to be traded not two or three at the draft which was recently put in. All I know is in general the minor system doesn't work as we want it to and every season we complain about it. We've had tons of changes maybe its time for something more drastic. Some interetsing ideas in there, the TPE-cap for teams sounds rather drastic but it might be something worth thinking about. And like some others, I'm absolutely in favor of a fully randomized draft ranking to discourage teams from tanking. Although I think such a lottery would only really work in a smaller league, and maybe a snake-draft should go along with it. Edited January 6, 2014 by RomanesEuntDomus Link to comment https://vhlforum.com/topic/3549-vhlm-waiver-discussion/page/9/#findComment-26074 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toast 887 Posted January 6, 2014 Share Posted January 6, 2014 If you want to decrease the amount of teams in the league you're more than likely going to need to create a new sim revolving around the league as well. I'm in complete support of everything Mike had to say. A minimum/maximum TPE cap would keep everyone competing. That would certainly be better than 3/4 teams all in, 3/4 teams attempting to tank. Link to comment https://vhlforum.com/topic/3549-vhlm-waiver-discussion/page/9/#findComment-26093 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smarch 3,151 Posted January 6, 2014 Share Posted January 6, 2014 (edited) I think updates are one of the biggest concerns in the VHL and VHLM, you want to reward active players for their hard work. For example last season Matt Reily an inactive defenseman was well ahead of me in points until I was updated at the sim and me being active finally paid off. If your a new member sitting at 0 TPE until the trade deadline it's no fun and might make new members pack it in. Edited January 6, 2014 by Smarch Link to comment https://vhlforum.com/topic/3549-vhlm-waiver-discussion/page/9/#findComment-26094 Share on other sites More sharing options...
sterling 1,997 Posted January 6, 2014 Share Posted January 6, 2014 I have the registration key for STHS. Updating players weekly was Higgins' job. As to why he doesnt do it now I dont know. There should be someone doing it and to be honest, doing the VHLM updates may take all of 10 to 15 mins in the sim. I am not doing it anymore though. Link to comment https://vhlforum.com/topic/3549-vhlm-waiver-discussion/page/9/#findComment-26110 Share on other sites More sharing options...
sterling 1,997 Posted January 6, 2014 Share Posted January 6, 2014 Again, if you read the whole thread you will determine the point of the VHLM is not parity, it is development. Teams dont have to be good tbh Link to comment https://vhlforum.com/topic/3549-vhlm-waiver-discussion/page/9/#findComment-26111 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doomsday 4,130 Posted January 6, 2014 Share Posted January 6, 2014 (edited) I have the registration key for STHS. Updating players weekly was Higgins' job. As to why he doesnt do it now I dont know. There should be someone doing it and to be honest, doing the VHLM updates may take all of 10 to 15 mins in the sim. I am not doing it anymore though. If someone like myself were to get the key, would we be able to do the updates? Edited January 6, 2014 by Doomsday Link to comment https://vhlforum.com/topic/3549-vhlm-waiver-discussion/page/9/#findComment-26112 Share on other sites More sharing options...
sterling 1,997 Posted January 6, 2014 Share Posted January 6, 2014 Yes, yes you could. I told the worthless BOG to post it in the job interview thread too, but that hasnt happened yet. Link to comment https://vhlforum.com/topic/3549-vhlm-waiver-discussion/page/9/#findComment-26113 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Admin Victor 10,940 Posted January 6, 2014 Admin Share Posted January 6, 2014 We might just need a stopgap for this season which I think someone even volunteered to do for free. And next season making the VHLM its own separate sim seems to be the logical move. So we'd need a full-time simmer for that. Link to comment https://vhlforum.com/topic/3549-vhlm-waiver-discussion/page/9/#findComment-26117 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smarch 3,151 Posted January 6, 2014 Share Posted January 6, 2014 FFS, I am willing to update for free this season and then you can make it a job for someone newer next season. Link to comment https://vhlforum.com/topic/3549-vhlm-waiver-discussion/page/9/#findComment-26125 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Admin Victor 10,940 Posted January 6, 2014 Admin Share Posted January 6, 2014 Higgins appears to be the most likely candidate to be VHLM simmer. Plus he will be updating this season. Link to comment https://vhlforum.com/topic/3549-vhlm-waiver-discussion/page/9/#findComment-26149 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corco 1,237 Posted January 6, 2014 Share Posted January 6, 2014 I personally think that having one simmer and one sim engine is fine, we just need jardy to post the file on a dropbox or something so that people can update it. A ten team league can work, we just need to focus more on development, rather than winning. Link to comment https://vhlforum.com/topic/3549-vhlm-waiver-discussion/page/9/#findComment-26150 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fire Tortorella 2,653 Posted January 6, 2014 Share Posted January 6, 2014 I personally think that having one simmer and one sim engine is fine, we just need jardy to post the file on a dropbox or something so that people can update it. A ten team league can work, we just need to focus more on development, rather than winning. If we institute something like your 4 year/135ish TPE FA idea and a lottery, I think a 10 team league can still work as well. Link to comment https://vhlforum.com/topic/3549-vhlm-waiver-discussion/page/9/#findComment-26168 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seth 92 Posted January 6, 2014 Share Posted January 6, 2014 A ten team league can absolutely be functional, we just have to correct some issues and recruit a bit more. I don't believe the VHLM is in as much chaos as perceived. Corco 1 Link to comment https://vhlforum.com/topic/3549-vhlm-waiver-discussion/page/9/#findComment-26198 Share on other sites More sharing options...
RomanesEuntDomus 442 Posted January 6, 2014 Share Posted January 6, 2014 (edited) No way a ten team junior league will ever work as well as it should, but that's just my opinion. Edited January 6, 2014 by RomanesEuntDomus Link to comment https://vhlforum.com/topic/3549-vhlm-waiver-discussion/page/9/#findComment-26215 Share on other sites More sharing options...
d3vilsfire 132 Posted January 6, 2014 Share Posted January 6, 2014 No way a ten team junior league will ever work as well as it should, but that's just my opinion. Ten team junior league is fine with me.. we just need the GMs to have a better relationship with new members.. Contact them as soon as new members join, and constantly contact them until they tell you to stop.. this might seem like you are desperate, but i think it gives them the feeling of being wanted, and we want new members to join.. When i joined flyersfan and kendrick were talking to me almost instantly.. that felt nice and showed me that this league was very active.. Link to comment https://vhlforum.com/topic/3549-vhlm-waiver-discussion/page/9/#findComment-26220 Share on other sites More sharing options...
sterling 1,997 Posted January 6, 2014 Share Posted January 6, 2014 So we need better VHLM GMs then. Ill take a team. Link to comment https://vhlforum.com/topic/3549-vhlm-waiver-discussion/page/9/#findComment-26249 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corco 1,237 Posted January 6, 2014 Share Posted January 6, 2014 So we need better VHLM GMs then. Ill take a team. If nobody else objects, you can have the Baby Eagles, since Kyle has been a no-show for a while. Link to comment https://vhlforum.com/topic/3549-vhlm-waiver-discussion/page/9/#findComment-26252 Share on other sites More sharing options...
d3vilsfire 132 Posted January 6, 2014 Share Posted January 6, 2014 So we need better VHLM GMs then. Ill take a team. More involved GMs.. willing to spend the time to talk to new members.. Id volunteer my services, but no one wants a guy who just joined to already take over a team.. so once i gain more experience id like to offer my services Link to comment https://vhlforum.com/topic/3549-vhlm-waiver-discussion/page/9/#findComment-26259 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seth 92 Posted January 6, 2014 Share Posted January 6, 2014 So we need better VHLM GMs then. Ill take a team. Do we? I will gladly place my name in the hat as well then! Link to comment https://vhlforum.com/topic/3549-vhlm-waiver-discussion/page/9/#findComment-26263 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted January 6, 2014 Share Posted January 6, 2014 Should probably focus on Turku too... Link to comment https://vhlforum.com/topic/3549-vhlm-waiver-discussion/page/9/#findComment-26267 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderator Baozi 1,658 Posted January 6, 2014 Moderator Share Posted January 6, 2014 (edited) I've been applying to teams lol. I want one in Asia though to fitmy theme I've been ok letting newer people take over teams though but development of new players should be a high priority as well. I maybe mix more vets with new gms? Edited January 6, 2014 by tfong Link to comment https://vhlforum.com/topic/3549-vhlm-waiver-discussion/page/9/#findComment-26311 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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